New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 05 2020 8:17pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 05 2020 10:45am
From the photo I saw replacing the outer seal in the crank adapter with a sealed bearing won't add support to the shaft. It might take some play out of the sprag clutch. But I don't think it will help the broken shaft issue.
Yes it doesn't look like it would help with the axle breakages on the drive side. Adding the second bearing to the non-drive side may help distribute the load outside of the circlip groove there, but it really needs to be shimmed for the best support.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Aug 06 2020 12:52am

Basileios wrote:
Aug 05 2020 3:15pm
Elinx wrote:
Aug 05 2020 2:46pm
Basileios wrote:
Aug 05 2020 2:17pm
.... it'd be great to make it fit on my bicycle, it is a Dahon Ios P7.....
Imho it is easier to add a hub motor.
Thanks for the response, sadly it is the first type with the seat tube in front of the pedals. Would you have any hub motor suggestion?
I have TSDZ2 on my Dahon for years.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Aug 06 2020 2:54am

feketehegyi wrote:
Aug 06 2020 12:52am
...
I have TSDZ2 on my Dahon for years.
Imho is that the one with the seatpost behind the bottom bracket instead on front (1e picture) of it as basileios have.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vass » Aug 06 2020 10:33am

Little review off my TSDZ2 (48v motor 52V battery)

With the OSF, thermal pads and temp sensor is a damn good motor (never used it on oem form :mrgreen: )
I have ridden some bosh and yamaha (entry level ones) and the TSDZ2 is in my opinion better and more powerfull (and with the osf way more flexible) .
Its so nice that i wanted only to comute with my old mtb and now i am buying a nice used full suspension because it got me hooked again on offroad bike riding (i have a enduro motorcycle so i like this stuff, but it this i can ride places i cant with it, also my hardtaill sucks on single tracks and it killing my back :D )

So if you have an old bike and can solder and use a computer (or have a friend that can do it) go for it :)

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Aug 06 2020 1:05pm

vass wrote:
Aug 06 2020 10:33am
Little review off my TSDZ2 (48v motor 52V battery)

With the OSF, thermal pads and temp sensor is a damn good motor (never used it on oem form :mrgreen: )
I have ridden some bosh and yamaha (entry level ones) and the TSDZ2 is in my opinion better and more powerfull (and with the osf way more flexible) .
Its so nice that i wanted only to comute with my old mtb and now i am buying a nice used full suspension because it got me hooked again on offroad bike riding (i have a enduro motorcycle so i like this stuff, but it this i can ride places i cant with it, also my hardtaill sucks on single tracks and it killing my back :D )

So if you have an old bike and can solder and use a computer (or have a friend that can do it) go for it :)
36V version doesn't seem so powerful. Insufficient thermal management doesn't help for continuous loads either.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 06 2020 11:30pm

Elinx wrote:
Aug 05 2020 9:39am
I was reading some posts on the German forum and saw a creative solution with 6902 2RS axle bearings.
...
they add also on the spiderside an extra bearing, that works against sideway play of the sprag clutch bearing.
Looking at the Bafang motors, they appear to have an external drive side bearing like this with no other seal. Are they known for problems with water ingress?

Perhaps that was only the older models and the new models now have seals?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by HrKlev » Aug 07 2020 3:46am

Broke the spindle on my fatbike the other day, 100mm motor. I was tuning in the pressure on the front fork, so I put a lot of weight on the pedals, and the drive side just snapped. Thumbs up for Ebird store for just shipping out a new one for free. Told me they were stronger now, but Im nor sure about this motor anymore for my riding. The fatbike had only 300km, but a fair share of those were single trails. Weird thing is on my other bike, a full suspension sees jumps and drops all the time, but after 800km not a single problem (well, a blue gear failure, but that was my fault). The fatbike sees way less abuse, and is mostly used for slow rides.
Attachments
IMG_04082020_210253_(1000_x_750_pixel).jpg
IMG_04082020_210253_(1000_x_750_pixel).jpg (208.9 KiB) Viewed 559 times
Last edited by HrKlev on Aug 07 2020 7:03am, edited 1 time in total.
Lightweight hub motor as mid drive build thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=107622

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Aug 07 2020 3:59am

HrKlev wrote:
Aug 07 2020 3:46am
Broke the spindle on my fatbike the other day. I was tuning in the pressure on the front fork, so I put a lot of weight on the pedals, and the drive side just snapped. Thumbs up for Ebird store for just shipping out a new one for free. Told me they were stronger now, but Im nor sure about this motor anymore for my riding. The fatbike had only 300km, but a fair share of those were single trails. Weird thing is on my other bike, a full suspension sees jumps and drops all the time, but after 800km not a single problem (well, a blue gear failure, but that was my fault). The fatbike sees way less abuse, and is mostly used for slow rides.

Maybe I will give it a shot with the extra bearings on both sides, but I already have other plans for torque sensing motor setup.
How much weight? With 85kg nothing has happened yet.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Aug 07 2020 3:59am

HrKlev wrote:
Aug 07 2020 3:46am
Broke the spindle on my fatbike the other day. I was tuning in the pressure on the front fork, so I put a lot of weight on the pedals, and the drive side just snapped. Thumbs up for Ebird store for just shipping out a new one for free. Told me they were stronger now, but Im nor sure about this motor anymore for my riding. The fatbike had only 300km, but a fair share of those were single trails. Weird thing is on my other bike, a full suspension sees jumps and drops all the time, but after 800km not a single problem (well, a blue gear failure, but that was my fault). The fatbike sees way less abuse, and is mostly used for slow rides.

Maybe I will give it a shot with the extra bearings on both sides, but I already have other plans for torque sensing motor setup.
How much weight? With 85kg nothing has happened yet.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by HrKlev » Aug 07 2020 4:08am

~88kg. Guess around 95 with camelback and other equipment.

I would think bottoming out 160mm suspension on the other bike is a lot more weight on the pedals. Im not jumping the fatbike, but it is a hardtail, so maybe the shockload is higher after all...?
Lightweight hub motor as mid drive build thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=107622

Retrorockit   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Retrorockit » Aug 08 2020 10:33am

HrKlev wrote:
Aug 07 2020 4:08am
~88kg. Guess around 95 with camelback and other equipment.

I would think bottoming out 160mm suspension on the other bike is a lot more weight on the pedals. Im not jumping the fatbike, but it is a hardtail, so maybe the shockload is higher after all...?
Shock load is what will start a crack at the snap ring groove. It usually won't break right away, the crack will slowly expand over time. There is also a matter of luck. Some will crack and others won't. But once the crack starts the part is doomed. Offroad riding seems to be a step too far for this motor. But maybe if enough of them break someone will make a better part. Like the rubber gear it may be worth while to have a spare on hand.

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 08 2020 6:34pm

Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 08 2020 10:33am
Shock load is what will start a crack at the snap ring groove. It usually won't break right away, the crack will slowly expand over time. There is also a matter of luck. Some will crack and others won't. But once the crack starts the part is doomed. Offroad riding seems to be a step too far for this motor. But maybe if enough of them break someone will make a better part. Like the rubber gear it may be worth while to have a spare on hand.
It is a shame that whoever made the fatbike adapters couldn't have come up with a solution to do away with the circlips altogether.
Last edited by famichiki on Aug 10 2020 4:44am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 08 2020 7:31pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Jul 26 2020 6:04am
But have you compared the drag compared to say the early Bosch and Shimano units ? The Bafang BBS02 I had was definitely worse, the Bosch unit I rode was similar to worse, but then if you go fitting lots of gears and sprag clutches you can't expect any thing less.

On mine using the V20 software I have the first level set at 40 - 50 W which is what I reckon about the losses of the motor and gears to make my bike equal to a non motor fitted bike.
I've been inspecting my motor and all the bearings use contacting rubber seals. At the risk of contamination, replacing them with non-contacting sealed bearings may go some way towards improving the drag.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Aug 09 2020 5:03am

Retrorockit wrote:
Aug 08 2020 10:33am
HrKlev wrote:
Aug 07 2020 4:08am
~88kg. Guess around 95 with camelback and other equipment.

I would think bottoming out 160mm suspension on the other bike is a lot more weight on the pedals. Im not jumping the fatbike, but it is a hardtail, so maybe the shockload is higher after all...?
Shock load is what will start a crack at the snap ring groove. It usually won't break right away, the crack will slowly expand over time. There is also a matter of luck. Some will crack and others won't. But once the crack starts the part is doomed. Offroad riding seems to be a step too far for this motor. But maybe if enough of them break someone will make a better part. Like the rubber gear it may be worth while to have a spare on hand.
What kind of shock loads? Not sure if things like impacts against the pedals and bike falling over on it's side could cause formation of micro cracks.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Aug 09 2020 10:08am

Elinx wrote:
Aug 06 2020 2:54am
feketehegyi wrote:
Aug 06 2020 12:52am
...
I have TSDZ2 on my Dahon for years.
Imho is that the one with the seatpost behind the bottom bracket instead on front (1e picture) of it as basileios have.
Ahh, yes. Sorry. I have the 2nd picture one. Yes, you are right. With the first one it would not fit most probably.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Aug 09 2020 11:42am

famichiki wrote:
Aug 08 2020 7:31pm
Waynemarlow wrote:
Jul 26 2020 6:04am
But have you compared the drag compared to say the early Bosch and Shimano units ? The Bafang BBS02 I had was definitely worse, the Bosch unit I rode was similar to worse, but then if you go fitting lots of gears and sprag clutches you can't expect any thing less.

On mine using the V20 software I have the first level set at 40 - 50 W which is what I reckon about the losses of the motor and gears to make my bike equal to a non motor fitted bike.
I've been inspecting my motor and all the bearings use contacting rubber seals. At the risk of contamination, replacing them with non-contacting sealed bearings may go some way towards improving the drag.
I'm also interested in how to improve it. Mine without power working so, that some turns pedalling is ok then other some pedalling is hard. And then again. Turning it with the pedals but by hand and without chain I cannot feel any heavy drag like when I was riding it. It seems my drag comes only under load.
I've tested how it is working if I remove the motor. Well, it's the same. It is not due to the motor.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 09 2020 6:43pm

Does anyone know if we should lube the torque sensor? The disc surfaces are clean but have some some kind of tacky, waxy feel to them so maybe there was something applied from the factory that has dried up? Also how about on the central disc (teflon?), it looks like it has some dirty grease on there and I think it contacts the case when installed.
Attachments
torque-sensor.jpg
torque-sensor.jpg (85.39 KiB) Viewed 350 times

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 09 2020 8:23pm

Elinx wrote:
Aug 02 2020 6:11pm
This picture shows 2x HK2214 bearings, but that is the only one I could find here.

So the diagram would be:
bearingplaces2.jpg
I've removed the non-drive side roller bearing, so can confirm there are two HK2214 used. On both the drive and non-drive sides there are steps in the gear case to hold them in the correct position. The drive side comes out with the torque sensor, the non-drive side can be tapped out with a socket etc inserted through the drive side.

But both these roller bearings are weird and have a lot of side-to-side play, about 2mm, I can't find any from a reputable brand like this. One side has a wider race too, extending past the rollers a couple of mm.

From what I can tell normally the inner race should perfectly fit the outer casing. In HK2214 I can only find versions with rubber seals on either one or both sides. The factory ones have no seals, but it appears like there is still room allowed for them. I don't want to replace with no-name bearings, so will probably get some HK2214-2RS which have a seal each side.

So lots of questions.. why would these bearings with so much play be chosen? Are they actually normal? If I can find some without seals and no play will they be better or cause some other problem? Would fitting a bearing with seals be acceptable? :confused:
Attachments
hk2214-bearing1.jpg
hk2214-bearing1.jpg (142.21 KiB) Viewed 345 times
hk2214-bearing2.jpg
hk2214-bearing2.jpg (144.47 KiB) Viewed 345 times
gear-case-step-drive.jpg
gear-case-step-drive.jpg (125.06 KiB) Viewed 345 times
gear-case-step-non-drive.jpg
gear-case-step-non-drive.jpg (120.27 KiB) Viewed 345 times
Last edited by famichiki on Aug 10 2020 3:49am, edited 1 time in total.

famichiki   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by famichiki » Aug 10 2020 2:36am

There is a discussion by Mmarc67 on the Cyclurba.fr forum about removing the captive HK2214 roller bearing from the torque sensor assembly.

https://cyclurba.fr/forum/510674/moteur ... &pageprec=

Basically you need to cut the wires at the rectangular silicone covered sensor module, unbolt and remove it. If you keep on reading in that thread, it shows how to extend those wires and keep them out of the way, so you don't need to cut them again next time.

After doing this you may need to calibrate your torque sensor.

https://github.com/OpenSource-EBike-fir ... que-sensor

Yay. :cry:

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by vass » Aug 10 2020 7:03am

sysrq wrote:
Aug 06 2020 1:05pm
vass wrote:
Aug 06 2020 10:33am
Little review off my TSDZ2 (48v motor 52V battery)

With the OSF, thermal pads and temp sensor is a damn good motor (never used it on oem form :mrgreen: )
I have ridden some bosh and yamaha (entry level ones) and the TSDZ2 is in my opinion better and more powerfull (and with the osf way more flexible) .
Its so nice that i wanted only to comute with my old mtb and now i am buying a nice used full suspension because it got me hooked again on offroad bike riding (i have a enduro motorcycle so i like this stuff, but it this i can ride places i cant with it, also my hardtaill sucks on single tracks and it killing my back :D )

So if you have an old bike and can solder and use a computer (or have a friend that can do it) go for it :)
36V version doesn't seem so powerful. Insufficient thermal management doesn't help for continuous loads either.
Never rode a 36V one but i guess it wil be away less powerfull, mine is configured to be able to go to 17A 750W on peak.
Thermal mods and temp sensor make it safe to use this kind of power.
I rode some bosh and yamaha bikes and say my tsdz2 is more powerfull , altought those engines are more "refined" (but i love to be able to change whatever i want on the fw level and i need to ride less and try to fine tune my motor :mrgreen: )

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by 0xdeadbeef » Aug 10 2020 9:24am

Hello all,

Just got my TSDZ2 installed and it's wonderful. However, as the autumn is soon arriving, I need headlights for the bike. I have understood that the Y-splitter from speed sensor provides 6 V for headlights. I ended up buying a pair of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000657217552.html

I don't want to ruin my battery so I'd like to ask a bit help with them.

1) They seem to draw 10W, is this too much for the battery, especially with 6V?

2) If I install them in parallel, that should provide 6 V for both?

3) How do I turn headlights on/off from the VLCD5?

I didn't find answer from google, so I'd really appreciate any help!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by kalleg » Aug 10 2020 9:35am

Guys I'm doing a conversion of an old e-stay MTB frame with a cargo fork. Without a straight chainstay I have trouble fixing the motor. Anyone have creative ideas on how I could do it?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/owfdv10199yyd ... 4.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2m4mtd72tgpx1 ... 8.jpg?dl=0

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Aug 10 2020 10:13am

Make sure the drive side sits correctly on the face of the Bottom Bracket, dimple the non drive side retainer with a centre punch along he line of the BB, tighten the castellated nut slightly, measure and shim the spacers correctly, fit the bolts and tighten the large nut if needed by hitting the spanner end with a club hammer, throw away the mounting bolt and plate.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by kalleg » Aug 10 2020 11:35am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Aug 10 2020 10:13am
Make sure the drive side sits correctly on the face of the Bottom Bracket, dimple the non drive side retainer with a centre punch along he line of the BB, tighten the castellated nut slightly, measure and shim the spacers correctly, fit the bolts and tighten the large nut if needed by hitting the spanner end with a club hammer, throw away the mounting bolt and plate.
English is my second language, but I think I get the idea (will have to look up a few words). Will it be strong enough, and with how much force can I tighten it? Noone made pictures of this I guess? Thx buddy!

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Aug 10 2020 12:06pm

kalleg wrote:
Aug 10 2020 9:35am
..... fixing the motor.....
A mount on the seat tube is maybe possible.

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