New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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bergerandfries   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Oct 29 2020 7:05am

sysrq wrote:
Oct 29 2020 5:27am
In other home videos people were applying Loctite 648 before pressing in the sprag clutch. Is that necessary?
When you remove the old sprag clutch, you'll see clear bearing adhesive on the outer surface. This helps the bearing not spin when under load. The loctite or similar automotive bearing and sleeve compound are even better than the clear junk Tong Shen puts on there.

I too have replaced my sprag clutch using just home tools. My advice is to not hold back hammering in the new clutch. Even with heating and cooling things, it's still a very tight fit. Force is needed!

knutselmaaster   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by knutselmaaster » Oct 29 2020 7:13am

Just heat the gear with a hair dryer and the bearing will come out easily.
If it doesn't, it means that you are not pressing 100% flat and you risk to damage the fitting.
Last edited by knutselmaaster on Oct 29 2020 7:18am, edited 1 time in total.

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Oct 29 2020 7:13am

I've replaced two now without using locktight and without problem. Just be aware as with all press fit bearings, if it pushes in without much effort then do use a locking agent.

Also note it will cost you a lot more too get the correct bearing with the O ring indentation, I've been using the standard bearing without and simply looping the small O ring around the outer section with a very small line of " gasket maker " paste around the face, do use this carefully though as you don't want excess in the bearing face.

Please note the inner seal is not a water repelling seal and all the water sealing done, has to be at the cranks seal and the spider, the water has to be stopped getting to the bearing.

Also go along to your nearest metal shop and get them to cut a couple of pieces of tube that fits appropriately, hammering a bearing is never ideal. Both times I've repalced the bearings, if you line up and get the bearing exactly in line, they press in no problem using a vice.

Jaybee258   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jaybee258 » Oct 29 2020 7:53pm

Elinx wrote:
Oct 27 2020 7:21am
casainho wrote:
Oct 27 2020 5:17am
......
No one should consider KT-LCD3 firmware option as it is outdated, it misses the last good new features that makes TSDZ2 a great option.

Option 850C-860C-SW102 is the one that I keep up to date so is the one I recommend.

I can't talk by options 3 and 4, I don't know how updated they are.
With updates it has also to do with expectations and if you want to jump to another display, but as I can see are option 2 and 4 the most up to date versions with fieldweakening for more effective higher cadence.
So imho it is the following update order: 2, 4, 3, 1
Hi Guys, thank you again for the very useful info. As I said before, I have do far failed to get my 860c to work with 1.0, so am looking for my next best option. I am quite excited to have finally got option 3 above to work. Now I have it working, the TSDZ2 is brilliant, along with great community help and support. Thank you all.

My current feeling is that maybe my 860c is faulty and I am looking to buy another display. I notice the 850 is somewhat cheaper. The New P850c looks almost identical to the 860c but cheaper. Does anybody know if this version of the 850 is also suitable for flashing the OFW 1.0? Thank you

LeftCoastNurd   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Oct 29 2020 8:19pm

the 860 is a little bit larger, and a whole lot brighter.

Jaybee258   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Jaybee258 » Oct 29 2020 8:55pm

For those not already convinced, I want to tell you how good I think the TSDZ2 really is. I just cycled up England's two highest legal mountainbikeable mountains. Both +3000'. Helvellyn and Skiddaw. I went for the 52 volt battery to minimise overheating problems on this type of ride, but the motor was still cool on the chilly summit, and I managed to pedal most of the way with minimal pushing. People on the summit could not believe seeing a bike up there. This is what I bought the TSDZ2 for, conquering big mountains and minimising the pushing. My donor bike is a full suspension Trek ex8, so the descent was magic. If I had spent £5k on a bike that did so well, I would have been happy. I kinda half expected to burn the motor out on my first trip , but we are cool.

I met a guy on a +£5k Specialized ebike who was having a great time. Brand new bike but he had already had the motor replaced once under warranty. His mates had also had motors replaced under warranty. They seemed happy with this arrangement because the warranty had been extended to 3 years because of unreliabilities. We could buy 10 replacement TS motors and still be in pocket!!. Spare 500w batteries at £800 too. TSDZ2 may have failings, but don't think paying £5k will get you anything more reliable. Next time you have to replace a blue cog, just think it could be a failed belt drive in a sealed unit needing a new motor.

bergerandfries   1 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by bergerandfries » Oct 29 2020 9:46pm

Jaybee258 wrote:
Oct 29 2020 8:55pm
Next time you have to replace a blue cog, just think it could be a failed belt drive in a sealed unit needing a new motor.
I replaced my failed sprag clutch with a smile on my face! Open Source for the win!

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Nov 02 2020 6:20am

Jaybee258 wrote:
Oct 29 2020 8:55pm
For those not already convinced, I want to tell you how good I think the TSDZ2 really is. I just cycled up England's two highest legal mountainbikeable mountains. Both +3000'. Helvellyn and Skiddaw. I went for the 52 volt battery to minimise overheating problems on this type of ride, but the motor was still cool on the chilly summit, and I managed to pedal most of the way with minimal pushing. People on the summit could not believe seeing a bike up there. This is what I bought the TSDZ2 for, conquering big mountains and minimising the pushing. My donor bike is a full suspension Trek ex8, so the descent was magic. If I had spent £5k on a bike that did so well, I would have been happy. I kinda half expected to burn the motor out on my first trip , but we are cool.

I met a guy on a +£5k Specialized ebike who was having a great time. Brand new bike but he had already had the motor replaced once under warranty. His mates had also had motors replaced under warranty. They seemed happy with this arrangement because the warranty had been extended to 3 years because of unreliabilities. We could buy 10 replacement TS motors and still be in pocket!!. Spare 500w batteries at £800 too. TSDZ2 may have failings, but don't think paying £5k will get you anything more reliable. Next time you have to replace a blue cog, just think it could be a failed belt drive in a sealed unit needing a new motor.
Probably depends on a lot of factors, 36V version seems to be to weak for prolonged climbing.

LeftCoastNurd   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Nov 05 2020 4:44pm

TSDZ2 with 860C, 1.0.0 firmware, running at 52V with current limited to 12A to reduce heating. Only ridden it about 70 miles so far, have temp sensor set to shutdown at 185F, and I've only got that once

Several times today it's stopped outputting any power for some distance then started working again. Always at the worst time, like accelerating from a stop, or beginning a hill climb. Display isn't blinking, speed is reading fine, as is cadence and human power, just shows 0 motor watts and 0 amps.

Any idea what might be wrong?

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Nov 05 2020 5:10pm

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Nov 05 2020 4:44pm
TSDZ2 with 860C, 1.0.0 firmware, running at 52V with current limited to 12A to reduce heating. Only ridden it about 70 miles so far, have temp sensor set to shutdown at 185F, and I've only got that once

Several times today it's stopped outputting any power for some distance then started working again. Always at the worst time, like accelerating from a stop, or beginning a hill climb. Display isn't blinking, speed is reading fine, as is cadence and human power, just shows 0 motor watts and 0 amps.

Any idea what might be wrong?
Make sure your battery cutoff voltage is set correctly.
Also are you talking seconds or minutes?

LeftCoastNurd   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Nov 05 2020 6:07pm

mctubster wrote:
Nov 05 2020 5:10pm
Make sure your battery cutoff voltage is set correctly.
Also are you talking seconds or minutes?
i believe it is set properly for the 52V battery (Samsung 35E 14S 4P), anyways, I had like an 80% charge when this was happening.

last leg coming home today, I noticed that sometimes 'motor power' would flatline at 180W or some other kind of random value, yet I could intentionally modulate my "human power" all over the place, from less than 100W to around 220 or 240W. then suddenly, I'd be getting the right pookah for the power assist level I'd set (I customized the power assist levels to just 10 rather than 20 and have it set so 4 is a good happy medium, 5 or 6 is extra boost up a hill when I'm tired, and 2 or 3 is good for the flats when I don't want to push my speed too hard. 3 gives me motor power about 2X human power, 4 is more like 3X, and 5 is more like 4X, all powers in watts, and no, I've not calibrated the torque sensor, just using the defaults there the way it came from eco-ebike, who programmed it for me.

as far as how long it misbehaves, its kinda random. sometimes its 3 or 4 or 5 full turns of the cranks, sometimes a fair bit more (10-15 full turns at maybe 60 or 75 cadence). carrying a 1L Hydraflask, and a 9 lb Kryptonite chain my pannier today, climbing the 8% grade I live up was a beating when the boost cut out. I'm not sure I can see how it could be an external wiring issue, as the display never reset, the speed and cadence and human power were always reading correctly.

Murrfinz   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Murrfinz » Nov 06 2020 2:56am

Hello Community,

I am wanting to splice/wire my stock thumb throttle to my 8 wire cable that goes to the TSDZ2 motor/controller. I am having trouble finding information the wiki that tells which wires which to splice. Maybe someone can help please.

Wires:
Thumb Throttle - yellow, green, red.
8 wire cable to TSDZ2 (remaining 3 wires unspliced) - white, green, orange.

Following is a link to a photo of my cable and throttle.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ap1XSK ... sp=sharing

Many thanks.

Swannking   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Swannking » Nov 06 2020 9:28am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Nov 05 2020 4:44pm
TSDZ2 with 860C, 1.0.0 firmware, running at 52V with current limited to 12A to reduce heating. Only ridden it about 70 miles so far, have temp sensor set to shutdown at 185F, and I've only got that once

Several times today it's stopped outputting any power for some distance then started working again. Always at the worst time, like accelerating from a stop, or beginning a hill climb. Display isn't blinking, speed is reading fine, as is cadence and human power, just shows 0 motor watts and 0 amps.

Any idea what might be wrong?
May be the torque sensor is failing. I would go into the technical menu which shows the value of the sensor while u are riding and try to see what’s going on with the value when that happens. I highly recommend for u to do the sensor calibration. I used a cheap luggage scale.

casainho   10 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Nov 06 2020 9:34am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Nov 05 2020 6:07pm
I noticed that sometimes 'motor power' would flatline at 180W or some other kind of random value, yet I could intentionally modulate my "human power" all over the place, from less than 100W to around 220 or 240W. then suddenly, I'd be getting the right pookah for the power assist level I'd set (I customized the power assist levels to just 10 rather than 20 and have it set so 4 is a good happy medium, 5 or 6 is extra boost up a hill when I'm tired, and 2 or 3 is good for the flats when I don't want to push my speed too hard. 3 gives me motor power about 2X human power, 4 is more like 3X, and 5 is more like 4X, all powers in watts, and no, I've not calibrated the torque sensor, just using the defaults there the way it came from eco-ebike, who programmed it for me.

as far as how long it misbehaves, its kinda random. sometimes its 3 or 4 or 5 full turns of the cranks, sometimes a fair bit more (10-15 full turns at maybe 60 or 75 cadence).
If the human power is well calculated (you can test it with motor disabled at assist level 0), motor should not give different currents / power than what you expect. I can´t imagine why that would happen. There no reports of such issue.

I hope you can figure out the issue...

And don´t forget to update to latest firmware version.
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless Ebike boar ANT+ and Bluetooth, Flexible OpenSource firmware for EBikes: TSDZ2 mid drive motor, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

If you like my work, please consider making a donation to help my developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

Waynemarlow   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Nov 06 2020 10:01am

The only time we have seen motor current draw problems was both times a battery fault. Turned out to be a poor weld on some of the cells which was restricting the current, as soon as you stopped or at rest the voltage would recover back to the norm.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Nov 06 2020 1:38pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Nov 06 2020 10:01am
The only time we have seen motor current draw problems was both times a battery fault. Turned out to be a poor weld on some of the cells which was restricting the current, as soon as you stopped or at rest the voltage would recover back to the norm.
that would cause a drastic voltage drop of the battery under current load?

k, next time, I'll setup one of the displays to show batt voltage and current along with motor current and human watts

Swannking wrote:
Nov 06 2020 9:28am
May be the torque sensor is failing. I would go into the technical menu which shows the value of the sensor while u are riding and try to see what’s going on with the value when that happens. I highly recommend for u to do the sensor calibration. I used a cheap luggage scale.
isn't the 'human power' display directly related to the torque sensor (after being run through the calibration table) times the cadence ? 'human power' was reading fine, like hovering around 150 or 200 watts or whatever while pedaling briskly, while motor power was 0, then suddenly motor power jumps back to whatever it should be.

casainho wrote:
Nov 06 2020 9:34am
If the human power is well calculated (you can test it with motor disabled at assist level 0), motor should not give different currents / power than what you expect. I can´t imagine why that would happen. There no reports of such issue.

I hope you can figure out the issue...

And don´t forget to update to latest firmware version.
I need to figure out why my ST-Link didn't work when I tried setting it up.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Nov 06 2020 4:53pm

casainho wrote:
Nov 06 2020 9:34am
...

And don´t forget to update to latest firmware version.
oh. when I upgrade 1.0.0 to latest, does that reset all my settings, so I need to go through all the menus and reset everything?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Swannking » Nov 06 2020 9:38pm

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Nov 06 2020 4:53pm
casainho wrote:
Nov 06 2020 9:34am
...

And don´t forget to update to latest firmware version.
oh. when I upgrade 1.0.0 to latest, does that reset all my settings, so I need to go through all the menus and reset everything?
Yes it does reset everything. It may be a dumb question. Did you also update the firmware of the motor to the corresponding .hex file?

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Nov 06 2020 10:02pm

Swannking wrote:
Nov 06 2020 9:38pm
Yes it does reset everything. It may be a dumb question. Did you also update the firmware of the motor to the corresponding .hex file?
as of right now, I'm still running the 1.0.0 firmware that eco-ebikes flashed before they shipped it to me. everything was working fine until a couple rides ago, and on the last ride yesterday it misbehaved a fair bit more than the ride before that.

I was kinda fried today, so I didn't go anywhere, and rain is in the forecast so it might be a few days before I ride it again.

I have the stlink and 850/860c bootloader box, both purchased with the motor from eco-ebikes, my one atteempt at setting up the software using my laptop did not work. when I tried to 'read' the existing firmware into a file, it said it could not communicate ...

Code: Select all

Hardware configuration set to <ST-LINK on USB with STM8S105x6 plugged in and SWIM protocol>.
Blank check before programming (when available) is OFF
Verify after programming is ON.
Clear memory before loading a file is ON.
Erase device memory before programming (when available) is OFF
Display a popup window when an error occurs is ON.
Log activity is OFF
> Reading  PROGRAM MEMORY area...
Error : Cannot communicate with the tool.
Wrong tool selection or check tool power supply or check that a previous session is closed.
Error : < PROGRAM MEMORY reading failed.
Error : < Operation aborted.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Swannking » Nov 07 2020 9:47am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Nov 06 2020 10:02pm
Swannking wrote:
Nov 06 2020 9:38pm
Yes it does reset everything. It may be a dumb question. Did you also update the firmware of the motor to the corresponding .hex file?
as of right now, I'm still running the 1.0.0 firmware that eco-ebikes flashed before they shipped it to me. everything was working fine until a couple rides ago, and on the last ride yesterday it misbehaved a fair bit more than the ride before that.

I was kinda fried today, so I didn't go anywhere, and rain is in the forecast so it might be a few days before I ride it again.

I have the stlink and 850/860c bootloader box, both purchased with the motor from eco-ebikes, my one atteempt at setting up the software using my laptop did not work. when I tried to 'read' the existing firmware into a file, it said it could not communicate ...

Code: Select all

Hardware configuration set to <ST-LINK on USB with STM8S105x6 plugged in and SWIM protocol>.
Blank check before programming (when available) is OFF
Verify after programming is ON.
Clear memory before loading a file is ON.
Erase device memory before programming (when available) is OFF
Display a popup window when an error occurs is ON.
Log activity is OFF
> Reading  PROGRAM MEMORY area...
Error : Cannot communicate with the tool.
Wrong tool selection or check tool power supply or check that a previous session is closed.
Error : < PROGRAM MEMORY reading failed.
Error : < Operation aborted.
Did u finish this step “ select the 'Option Byte' tab, and then choose 'Current tab' from the Read Menu to read and fill the option byte values from your TSDZ2.”

James Broadhurst   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by James Broadhurst » Nov 09 2020 6:24am

I'm thinking of building a 48v coaster brake motor (they only supply a 36v) by using a normal 48v and locking by some means or other the sprague clutch. That should work?

LeftCoastNurd   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Nov 09 2020 9:11am

James Broadhurst wrote:
Nov 09 2020 6:24am
I'm thinking of building a 48v coaster brake motor (they only supply a 36v) by using a normal 48v and locking by some means or other the sprague clutch. That should work?
Probably be easier to swap in a 48v motor to the coaster version... "Some means" is kind of hand-wavy.

But, why coaster brake? They are the least effective brake available on a bicycle. E-bikes go fast, and need good brakes.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by eyebyesickle » Nov 09 2020 8:25pm

James Broadhurst wrote:
Nov 09 2020 6:24am
I'm thinking of building a 48v coaster brake motor (they only supply a 36v) by using a normal 48v and locking by some means or other the sprague clutch. That should work?
The normal motors use helical teeth in the main gear and reduction. The coaster brake motors use straight cut. So keep that in mind. You cannot just swap the gear out. Also keep in mind that the coaster brake programming is different too. So you need the coaster brake type firmware in the program memory tab for sure.

What I do, and what I recommend - get a normal 36v coaster brake motor, and switch out the inside motor to 48v, then reprogram it. FYI you cannot reprogram the coaster brake motor the same way as you do other motors, by uploading the profile, it will cause an error and won't work. You have to go in and manually change the voltage in data memory. Recently they also changed something else and now it's a pain to do. For some reason I cannot get them to go 52v anymore like I used to, but can set them up 48v still no problem. Let me know if you need any assistance I can walk you through it.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by James Broadhurst » Nov 10 2020 1:42pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Nov 09 2020 8:25pm
FYI you cannot reprogram the coaster brake motor the same way as you do other motors, by uploading the profile, it will cause an error and won't work. You have to go in and manually change the voltage in data memory. Recently they also changed something else and now it's a pain to do. For some reason I cannot get them to go 52v anymore like I used to, but can set them up 48v still no problem. Let me know if you need any assistance I can walk you through it.
Hmmm ... that's exactly what I did. I loaded v19.0 with a 48v battery and all is well.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by jeff.page.rides » Nov 10 2020 6:15pm

eyebyesickle wrote:
Nov 09 2020 8:25pm
James Broadhurst wrote:
Nov 09 2020 6:24am
I'm thinking of building a 48v coaster brake motor (they only supply a 36v) by using a normal 48v and locking by some means or other the sprague clutch. That should work?
The normal motors use helical teeth in the main gear and reduction. The coaster brake motors use straight cut. So keep that in mind. You cannot just swap the gear out. Also keep in mind that the coaster brake programming is different too. So you need the coaster brake type firmware in the program memory tab for sure.

What I do, and what I recommend - get a normal 36v coaster brake motor, and switch out the inside motor to 48v, then reprogram it. FYI you cannot reprogram the coaster brake motor the same way as you do other motors, by uploading the profile, it will cause an error and won't work. You have to go in and manually change the voltage in data memory. Recently they also changed something else and now it's a pain to do. For some reason I cannot get them to go 52v anymore like I used to, but can set them up 48v still no problem. Let me know if you need any assistance I can walk you through it.
I've used both 48 Volt & 36 Volt coaster brake Motors with the same firmware and all the same settings other than setting it to a 48 Volt motor or 36 Volt motor all else being equal and the same. I use a 52V battery. I like the 36V better than the 48V both use a 52V battery.

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