New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Jan 17 2021 6:08pm

mdumdei wrote:
Jan 02 2021 7:15pm
sysrq wrote:
Dec 31 2020 10:43am
Wapous wrote:
Dec 30 2020 8:36pm
For many of us, the time has come for a good cleaning and refurbishment of our TSDZ2. This often involves the replacement of different bearings.
Hope this might help you.
What was the typical mileage which warrants replacement? Or just ride it into the ground.
I have 8000 km (5200 mi) on mine and greased the main drive gear once just because. I've had more trouble with my seat squeaking than the motor :).
On reddit some people are greasing the secondary gear after every 600-1000km.
Sometimes after greasing the chainring starts rubbing
against the pinion gear housing despite putting effort into seating it properly. Also could be due to constantly changing dimensions in various locations due to such a constricted space.

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Jan 17 2021 6:12pm

bergerandfries wrote:
Oct 12 2020 10:41pm
Adarsh881 wrote:
Oct 12 2020 4:38pm
bergerandfries wrote:
Oct 05 2020 8:24pm
I have this problem too, which is posted unanswered in the "E-Bike Technical" section. Anyone have any ideas?
by cellmate » Jul 13 2020 3:16pm

Hi there,

I just got a brand new TSDZ2 from eco-cycles. It is working, but have noticed that the resistance when turning the cranks is not continuous all the way around. It is smooth all the way except one spot, where it has a bit more friction. It's not a huge amount, but you can feel it when pedaling. There is also a subtle/quiet grinding sound at that point. It's very quiet (nothing like some of the things I've found when googling this), but it is definitely there once you notice it.

I noticed that if I put the bike on the repair stand and use the throttle to turn the chainring, there is a tiny wobble to it, right at the point where it makes the sound.

I removed the drive-side crank, chainring, and spider, and ran it again. Now the motor is smooth and silent. If I put the spider back on again but don't tighten the 5 retaining bolts fully, it is also smooth. As soon as I tighten them even the tiniest bit (< 1nm) the wobble and grind comes back.

The motor works, but I feel like something isn't right, and I suspect it will get worse if I don't deal with it sooner rather than later.

Has anyone had this before?
Yes I have the exact same thing... Didn't find what it is though....did you get any wiser?
Nope. I suspect something is rubbing where I can't see it. Haven't found it yet
Same here, haven't had any problems before and now it won't allow to tighten the bolts anymore.

Wapous   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Jan 17 2021 9:08pm

sysrq wrote:
Jan 17 2021 6:12pm
bergerandfries wrote:
Oct 12 2020 10:41pm
Adarsh881 wrote:
Oct 12 2020 4:38pm
bergerandfries wrote:
Oct 05 2020 8:24pm
I have this problem too, which is posted unanswered in the "E-Bike Technical" section. Anyone have any ideas?
Yes I have the exact same thing... Didn't find what it is though....did you get any wiser?
Nope. I suspect something is rubbing where I can't see it. Haven't found it yet
Same here, haven't had any problems before and now it won't allow to tighten the bolts anymore.
Did you try with the gear cover removed?
Attachments
Cover_main gear.JPG
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mbrusa   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mbrusa » Jan 18 2021 5:32am

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 17 2021 5:31pm
Elinx wrote:
Jan 16 2021 5:35am
...
mbrusa wrote:
Jan 16 2021 6:59am
...
I wanted to try out the settings you recommended and for some reason one time flashing worked fine but after that both JavaConfigurator and ST Visual Programmer can't write program data anymore

I've tried putting stock firmware and looks like it's able to read everything and write DATA and OPTION but fails to write PROGRAM memory. Any idea what could be wrong?

Code: Select all

< DATA MEMORY reading completed -- [Device Checksum 4FA]
> Reading  OPTION BYTE area...
< OPTION BYTE reading completed -- [Device Checksum 0]
> Loading file C:\TSDZ2-Smart-EBike-1-master\48V stock firmware\48vprogrammemory.s19 in PROGRAM MEMORY area  ...
< File successfully loaded. File Checksum 0x192B61
> Programming  PROGRAM MEMORY area...
Error : Programming failed
Error : < PROGRAM MEMORY programming failed.
Error : Programming failed
Error : < PROGRAM MEMORY programming failed.
> Programming  DATA MEMORY area...
< DATA MEMORY programming completed.
> Verifying DATA MEMORY area...
< DATA MEMORY successfully verified.
> Programming  OPTION BYTE area...
< OPTION BYTE programming completed.
> Verifying OPTION BYTE area...
< OPTION BYTE successfully verified.
In the OPTION BYTE tab, is Read Out Protection OFF?

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Jan 18 2021 12:21pm

Wapous wrote:
Jan 17 2021 9:08pm
sysrq wrote:
Jan 17 2021 6:12pm
bergerandfries wrote:
Oct 12 2020 10:41pm
Adarsh881 wrote:
Oct 12 2020 4:38pm


Yes I have the exact same thing... Didn't find what it is though....did you get any wiser?
Nope. I suspect something is rubbing where I can't see it. Haven't found it yet
Same here, haven't had any problems before and now it won't allow to tighten the bolts anymore.
Did you try with the gear cover removed?
Unfortunately had to make some makeshift turning machine out of old bicycle to slightly file, sand and polish the chainwheel. Now it seems to be rotating more or less freely/smoothly and there is something which looks like a small gap between the chainring and pinion gear protrusion.

Andrew707   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Andrew707 » Jan 19 2021 1:32am

mbrusa wrote:
Jan 18 2021 5:32am
In the OPTION BYTE tab, is Read Out Protection OFF?
Yes, it is off. After like 10 tries I was able to install stock firmware. Whenever I get the error I just unplug and plug to other usb port and try again and keept doing that until it wrote program memory and looks like the bike is working fine with stock firmware. Would be nice to get OSF working again but if not I guess that would work for me too...

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Jan 19 2021 4:39am

Andrew707 wrote:
Jan 19 2021 1:32am
mbrusa wrote:
Jan 18 2021 5:32am
In the OPTION BYTE tab, is Read Out Protection OFF?
.....Would be nice to get OSF working again but if not I guess that would work for me too...
If stock FW could be flashed, OSF must also be possible. The connection of the ST V2 programmer to the Tsdz2 is very sensitive and the wiring must be stable and short as possible.

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jbalat   10 kW

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Excessive Drag

Post by jbalat » Jan 20 2021 6:16pm

Hi not sure if anyone has experienced this but it feels like internal drag in the motor. It has done in excess of 20K

I gave it a clean and re-grease and the motor was very easy to peddle without any sound.
I could ride at 30km/hr with 180-200w
this lasted a few days and it was awesome as I could ride at much lower assist.

Now the noise has come back.. its the typical whining noise that everyone loves but there seems to be much resistance when I peddle.. Almost like I am pedalling the bike and also fighting to drive the motor at the same time. Consumption is now around 280w for the same speed and often goes above 300w.

So my friend had a similar issue but intermittent and he replaced his blue gear and it was all fixed.. My brass gear seemed fine and bearing wasn't sticking but could a sticky bearing cause this drag ?
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Waynemarlow   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Jan 21 2021 6:44am

Jbalat.

Are you sure the brass gear and the pinion on the motor has worn suffciently that it is now getting out of alignment and putting excess pressure / loading on the bearings that guide the motor shaft ( the small bearing under the plastic gear ) ?

Perhaps you could drop back to a new plastic gear but I would suspect at that Km with a brass gear you may need to swap out the motor as well to get a new pinion on the end of the motor shaft.

Anyway why not a plastic gear, the OSF virtually solves any worry, yes I screwed a gear the other day in deep mud with a brand new chain and front sprocket which created a chain suck, locking the motor just as I powered on to get through the axle deep mud. Rare set of circumstances but its the first gear in about 2 years and 100k metres of climb.

Bigwheel   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Bigwheel » Jan 21 2021 1:32pm

"locking the motor" under power will do it every time OSF or not to the blue gear. Luckily the part is cheap and easy to replace and it doesn't happen often. After replacing derailleur housing and cable recently a few days ago while shifting down in anticipation of a steep slope it overshifted into the spokes.....blew blue gear but was still operable, but noisy, to make my way home. It was odd because I hadn't done any adjustment to the derailleur.....oh well

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Alfie   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Alfie » Jan 24 2021 5:26pm

Hi Fellas

I managed to get my build finished at last. Firmware installed and all working good. Many thanks to Casainho and all the other contributors for their sterling work with this. My motor is still making a bit of a strange noise when going slow and not putting much pressure on the pedals. I haven't configured the torque setting yet, so I'm hoping that might make things a little better.

I have one question: I have the units set to imperial/mph. Will the torque setting figures still be in Kg or do I need to use Lb.

This is the bike in commuter mode with road tyres. As soon as the rain stops here those mudguards will be gone and the Knobblies will be back on.

48v 500w, weighs in at 20.5kg, running custom firmware. I have two battery options at the moment, 8 and 12ah, both fit securely in frame bags. I did have to reverse the shock to get the battery packs to fit and fitted a narrow wide chainring. The drive side crank was also changed for a straight Bafang version. Other than that everything else is standard.

There are some more pics here: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8&t=110152
bike 8ah.jpg
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Whyte T129 TSDZ2

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 24 2021 5:35pm

Alfie wrote:
Jan 24 2021 5:26pm
I have one question: I have the units set to imperial/mph. Will the torque setting figures still be in Kg or do I need to use Lb.

I did have to reverse the shock to get the battery packs to fit and fitted a narrow wide chainring.
You should be very proud, beautiful looking ebike!! And I know that TSDZ2 has a great performance on such a bicycle :-)

Is safe if you use / configure everything in SI units and finally change to imperial, mainly to see your speed and such on imperial. The development was done for SI and the variables are stored in SI but converted to be shown in Imperial.
The future will be wireless, mainly mobile app, which is MUCH easier to develop for, is hard to develop for displays.

As the battery, maybe you can find someone that will build a custom pack for your space you have available - it is not hard to male custom packs.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

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Alfie   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Alfie » Jan 24 2021 7:54pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 24 2021 5:35pm
Alfie wrote:
Jan 24 2021 5:26pm
I have one question: I have the units set to imperial/mph. Will the torque setting figures still be in Kg or do I need to use Lb.

I did have to reverse the shock to get the battery packs to fit and fitted a narrow wide chainring.
You should be very proud, beautiful looking ebike!! And I know that TSDZ2 has a great performance on such a bicycle :-)

Is safe if you use / configure everything in SI units and finally change to imperial, mainly to see your speed and such on imperial. The development was done for SI and the variables are stored in SI but converted to be shown in Imperial.
The future will be wireless, mainly mobile app, which is MUCH easier to develop for, is hard to develop for displays.

As the battery, maybe you can find someone that will build a custom pack for your space you have available - it is not hard to male custom packs.
Thanks for the compliment. I will switch it back to SI before I implement the torque settings.

I have built my own 12a pack to fit the frame using Samsung 21700 cells. I don’t want to go to over the top as I like the stealthy look and the weight benefit of a smaller battery.
97CD9BF4-ABA5-49D8-A8B7-8FF301C5953E.jpeg
97CD9BF4-ABA5-49D8-A8B7-8FF301C5953E.jpeg (1.7 MiB) Viewed 239 times
Whyte T129 TSDZ2

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Jan 24 2021 8:12pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 24 2021 5:35pm
...
The future will be wireless, mainly mobile app, which is MUCH easier to develop for, is hard to develop for displays.
...
ugh. I'd much rather have a dedicated wired display, like my 860C, then have to mount my phone each time I ride my bike.

runwayfour   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by runwayfour » Jan 24 2021 8:18pm

Hi all. I hope I'm posting this in the right place. I'm just getting started with TSDZ2 OSF. I'm a software dev and hoping I can lend a hand with things eventually, but for now just starting w/ an install purchased with the OSF preloaded.

I attached the motor to the frame as per the instructions, and wired up the battery, motor, and 860c just to see that everything was working (and figure out how long of extension cables I need..)

When I power up the display, it is reading a very high wattage (like 6893W w/ the yellow meter pegged at 10) and showing an error "F 4 H".

I have tried to search and find more info but no joy.

Any one have any clue where I should get started to diagnose?

Thanks and sorry for being a n00b if I misposted this in any way.
Screen Shot 2021-01-24 at 8.15.45 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-01-24 at 8.15.45 PM.png (466.83 KiB) Viewed 233 times

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Jan 24 2021 8:25pm

runwayfour wrote:
Jan 24 2021 8:18pm
Hi all. I hope I'm posting this in the right place. I'm just getting started with TSDZ2 OSF. I'm a software dev and hoping I can lend a hand with things eventually, but for now just starting w/ an install purchased with the OSF preloaded.

I attached the motor to the frame as per the instructions, and wired up the battery, motor, and 860c just to see that everything was working (and figure out how long of extension cables I need..)

When I power up the display, it is reading a very high wattage (like 6893W w/ the yellow meter pegged at 10) and showing an error "F 4 H".

I have tried to search and find more info but no joy.

Any one have any clue where I should get started to diagnose?

Thanks and sorry for being a n00b if I misposted this in any way.

Screen Shot 2021-01-24 at 8.15.45 PM.png
huh, that doesn't look like any of the screens on my 860C running OSF 1.0 or 1.1

Image

runwayfour   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by runwayfour » Jan 24 2021 8:48pm

Hm, again sorry for being a newbie here, but is that what the stock firmware looks like? Its possible they sent me the wrong thing... sigh.

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Alfie   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Alfie » Jan 24 2021 9:11pm

runwayfour wrote:
Jan 24 2021 8:48pm
Hm, again sorry for being a newbie here, but is that what the stock firmware looks like? Its possible they sent me the wrong thing... sigh.
It looks like your display doesn’t have the TSDZ2 firmware installed.
Whyte T129 TSDZ2

runwayfour   1 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by runwayfour » Jan 24 2021 10:08pm

Thanks y’all. I spent so much time searching for my error on the new firmware I didn’t even think to check to make sure they sent the right thing. Will chat w/ electrify bike!

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 24 2021 10:46pm

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Jan 24 2021 8:12pm
casainho wrote:
Jan 24 2021 5:35pm
...
The future will be wireless, mainly mobile app, which is MUCH easier to develop for, is hard to develop for displays.
...
ugh. I'd much rather have a dedicated wired display, like my 860C, then have to mount my phone each time I ride my bike.
I clearly understand!! But the wireless EBike standard has other possibilities like having a much more advanced display like the Garmin Edge GPS display with navigation, connection to cycling sensors (like showing a graph of your heat rate in real time) and that has advanced fitness metrics like Flow and Jumps. This is something that 860C display will never do!!

The idea is that user will choose to have a clean EBike instalation using wireless and all that possibilities or choose to use the 860C/SW102 displays, which are also great.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Jan 24 2021 10:59pm

casainho wrote:
Jan 24 2021 10:46pm
The idea is that user will choose to have a clean EBike instalation using wireless and all that possibilities or choose to use the 860C/SW102 displays, which are also great.
ah, as long as the 860C remains an option, I'm cool with that. as far as 'clean', you still want a button control near the left grip for power levels, turning the system on/off, and you still need wires to the brakes, as well as headlight power, so its hard to see not having a wire for the display is really much cleaner.

LeftCoastNurd   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by LeftCoastNurd » Jan 24 2021 11:26pm

runwayfour wrote:
Jan 24 2021 10:08pm
Thanks y’all. I spent so much time searching for my error on the new firmware I didn’t even think to check to make sure they sent the right thing. Will chat w/ electrify bike!
did you get the programming cables for the tsdz2 and 860c ? if so, you can flash them both with the 1.1.0 firmware and be good to go.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Jan 25 2021 3:35am

LeftCoastNurd wrote:
Jan 24 2021 10:59pm
casainho wrote:
Jan 24 2021 10:46pm
The idea is that user will choose to have a clean EBike instalation using wireless and all that possibilities or choose to use the 860C/SW102 displays, which are also great.
ah, as long as the 860C remains an option, I'm cool with that. as far as 'clean', you still want a button control near the left grip for power levels, turning the system on/off, and you still need wires to the brakes, as well as headlight power, so its hard to see not having a wire for the display is really much cleaner.
The remote is also wireless and the brakes connect to the wireless remote, all is wireless.
The lights, like the remote and the GPS display have their own battery and are controlled wireless using the wireless standard for cycling lights. So everything is optional, you attach to the handle bar at anytime what you want and they just communicate wireless. Again, this is not the solution for everyone, maybe only for the ones that want a clean EBike (maybe Ebikes that are stored on the street and MTB or road Ebikes), with TSDZ2 or other motors.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

sysrq   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by sysrq » Jan 25 2021 6:54am

sysrq wrote:
Jan 18 2021 12:21pm
Wapous wrote:
Jan 17 2021 9:08pm
sysrq wrote:
Jan 17 2021 6:12pm
bergerandfries wrote:
Oct 12 2020 10:41pm

Nope. I suspect something is rubbing where I can't see it. Haven't found it yet
Same here, haven't had any problems before and now it won't allow to tighten the bolts anymore.
Did you try with the gear cover removed?
Unfortunately had to make some makeshift turning machine out of old bicycle to slightly file, sand and polish the chainwheel. Now it seems to be rotating more or less freely/smoothly and there is something which looks like a small gap between the chainring and pinion gear protrusion.
Seems weird that very few people are complaining about chainring rubbing against the housing since it seems like a serious design flaw which leads to needless friction and inefficiency.
Last edited by sysrq on Jan 25 2021 12:41pm, edited 1 time in total.

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Jan 25 2021 9:33am

sysrq wrote:
Jan 25 2021 6:54am
sysrq wrote:
Jan 18 2021 12:21pm
Wapous wrote:
Jan 17 2021 9:08pm
sysrq wrote:
Jan 17 2021 6:12pm


Same here, haven't had any problems before and now it won't allow to tighten the bolts anymore.
Did you try with the gear cover removed?
Unfortunately had to make some makeshift turning machine out of old bicycle to slightly file, sand and polish the chainwheel. Now it seems to be rotating more or less freely/smoothly and there is something which looks like a small gap between the chainring and pinion gear protrusion.
Seems weird that very few people are complaining about chainring rub against the housing since it seems like a serious design flaw which leads to needless friction and inefficiency.
I have had this in three motors. It's just bad chinese work.

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