New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

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Wapous   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Wapous » Mar 05 2021 3:42pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 04 2021 5:08pm
Where ever you have the motor, you have same problem, offset. We have got around that problem by fitting the front chainring gear changer and using it as a guide rather than to change the chainring. With the spread now available on the 10spd rear gear sets of 11 - 48 you only need one front chainring.
And it works very well. The friction on the shifter does not cause excessive noise. If by misfortune you run out of your battery you can come home without fear of the chain derailment at low speeds.

Manbeer   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Manbeer » Mar 06 2021 4:49pm

A couple of days ago when I finished my quick ride, I took the bike out of the truck to take it for a spin around the block and noticed that the assist seemed very weak, almost nonexistent. It seems it had to be in turbo mode to really feel anything.

i power cycled and it went back to normal, So I can only surmise that I must have turned the pedal when I was turning on the display and inadvertently screwed up the torque reading

Fast forward to today, I finally got it to some better trails and did about 25 miles. 2/3 of the way in i stopped for a snack and the display shut off, when it restarted the same thing...weak output. tried a few times power cycling to reset it and it was better, but still doesn't feel right. up till now, on sport mode on the trail it was fun and noticeably lively. Now it just feels like it's pulling its own weight. Turbo is probably about where sport mode was but maybe a bit weaker still. I noticed that the motor isnt as loud either

Battery was down to 48v at this time, so about half full. Swapped with a fresh pack when I got home just to see and it still doesn't feel as fast. Anything common I should be looking for?

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feketehegyi   10 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by feketehegyi » Mar 07 2021 12:46am

Manbeer wrote:
Mar 06 2021 4:49pm
as fast. Anything common I should be looking for?
Maybe the cold outside?

Waynemarlow   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 07 2021 8:18am

I’ve seen this exact thing if people start up the motor with one foot on the pedal. It makes a huge difference and we have to tell people to stand with both feet on the ground as you power up the motor. A maybe perhaps.

Manbeer   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Manbeer » Mar 07 2021 8:40pm

thanks for the suggestions, i tore everything down and found that the bracket supporting the rear of the motor had come a bit loose, though oddly the lockring was still pretty tight. my opinion (since i did not notice anything else that seemed amiss) is that this was allowing the motor enough play as to not fully gauge the torque being exerted on it. i did smash it up against a log pretty good that day, so im sure it didnt help, plus its a real bitch to get that bolt on the chainstay tightened so close to the seat tube. i tested a few times today, will see if the problem returns in the future. will probably loctite everything down the road

mctubster   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by mctubster » Mar 07 2021 9:15pm

casainho wrote:
Mar 04 2021 10:20am
I just finished my TSDZ2 wireless remote with connection to brake sensors -- I am very proud of final result :-)
Very impressive casainho. Looks great!

dameri   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by dameri » Mar 08 2021 1:15am

Manbeer wrote:
Mar 07 2021 8:40pm
thanks for the suggestions, i tore everything down and found that the bracket supporting the rear of the motor had come a bit loose, though oddly the lockring was still pretty tight. my opinion (since i did not notice anything else that seemed amiss) is that this was allowing the motor enough play as to not fully gauge the torque being exerted on it. i did smash it up against a log pretty good that day, so im sure it didnt help, plus its a real bitch to get that bolt on the chainstay tightened so close to the seat tube. i tested a few times today, will see if the problem returns in the future. will probably loctite everything down the road
casainho has made this solution. This is very good. Here is pictures of casainho:
2019-02-21-16-29-04.jpg
2019-02-21-16-29-04.jpg (78.88 KiB) Viewed 558 times
2019-02-21-16-29-19.jpg
2019-02-21-16-29-19.jpg (129.23 KiB) Viewed 558 times
2019-02-21-16-29-35.jpg
2019-02-21-16-29-35.jpg (125.7 KiB) Viewed 558 times

nbdriver   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nbdriver » Mar 08 2021 8:11am

Hello,

Does somebody else here had his motor shaft (holding the cranks) broken ? Mine broke last week on the right side after about 2500Km. So now i have to order a new torque sensor with shaft as it is one piece, or buy a new complete motor as there where some upgrades, like helical gears since my first purchase in 2016.

But i'm still asking myself if it is a good idea since 2500Km isn't that much (Mostly City riding). But i find no equivalent to the awesome open source firmware.

Chri_Tof   100 µW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Chri_Tof » Mar 08 2021 8:39am

nbdriver wrote:
Mar 08 2021 8:11am
Does somebody else here had his motor shaft (holding the cranks) broken ?
Hi. It hasn't happened to me yet, but I read about in the german pedelecforum.de. Some additional bearings should help, as far as i remember. Unfortunatly i cant find the thread. I have a look later, if you think that would help.

PS: I found it:
https://www.pedelecforum.de/forum/index ... hen.55070/
Last edited by Chri_Tof on Mar 08 2021 8:47am, edited 1 time in total.

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Alfie   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Alfie » Mar 08 2021 8:40am

nbdriver wrote:
Mar 08 2021 8:11am
Does somebody else here had his motor shaft (holding the cranks) broken ?
I think this is a common problem on the fat bike versions. Is yours a fat bike?
Whyte T129 TSDZ2

nbdriver   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by nbdriver » Mar 08 2021 8:58am

Thank you for the answers, i'm going to look at the german thread this evening.

And no it is not a fat bike, it is the stock shaft for 68mm BB. I guess i'm going to pay more attention at the power i give and use more assist :D

devboy-greg   10 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by devboy-greg » Mar 08 2021 9:21am

nbdriver wrote:
Mar 08 2021 8:11am
Does somebody else here had his motor shaft (holding the cranks) broken ?
I have implemented the modification mentioned here (with pictures) in the hope that when hitting a drop of any size the axle has some support outside of the circlip groove:

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&p=1575632#p1575623

...the post also refers to the German forum. I think you need the newer chainring adapter to make it work.

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 08 2021 10:02am

devboy-greg wrote:
Mar 08 2021 9:21am
......... I think you need the newer chainring adapter to make it work.
imho it works with the old and new default spider, but I advise to measure (28mm) to be sure.
But I doubt if this prevent braking of the axle, if you jump standing on the pedals.

Waynemarlow   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 08 2021 2:43pm

Does anyone know the way to tell the difference between a 48 volt and a 36 volt bare motor ? I've lost track of a motor ( I had an indelible pen marker voltage on it but it would seem the marker pen is not indeliable and the mark has disappeared ) and need to know what type it is to program it.

If I program it say as a 48 volt unit and it ends up a 36 volt unit, whats the downside ?

Thanks

Wayne.

Elinx   1 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 09 2021 3:45am

Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 08 2021 2:43pm
Does anyone know the way to tell the difference between a 48 volt and a 36 volt bare motor ? ....
If I program it say as a 48 volt unit and it ends up a 36 volt unit, whats the downside ?
....
If you can compare two bare motors, you can try to measure the resistance of the windings.
For the 48V this should be a little higher.

If you load 48V to a 36V motor, then the max. rpm will be around 5000 instead of 4000 rpm
The downside is heat if you don't keep the power limited to about 500w max.

Manbeer   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Manbeer » Mar 09 2021 9:14pm

now at 110km on mine. its a great motor for trail riding. one thing i noticed about this is you really FEEL when the battery voltage drops down a few volts. not sure why it seems so noticeable vs my other setups but its possible that the 500w unit i have is really the bare minimum to get the results im after. in either case, on sport mode, on the trail its fluid and intuitive feeling. did 24 miles mixed trail and rode with most being trail today and used roughly 300w/hr (granted i was pushing the pedals pretty hard) so id say that so far the efficiency has been about as much as i can ask for

casainho   100 GW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by casainho » Mar 09 2021 9:17pm

Manbeer wrote:
Mar 09 2021 9:14pm
now at 110km on mine. its a great motor for trail riding. one thing i noticed about this is you really FEEL when the battery voltage drops down a few volts. not sure why it seems so noticeable vs my other setups but its possible that the 500w unit i have is really the bare minimum to get the results im after. in either case, on sport mode, on the trail its fluid and intuitive feeling. did 24 miles mixed trail and rode with most being trail today and used roughly 300w/hr (granted i was pushing the pedals pretty hard) so id say that so far the efficiency has been about as much as i can ask for
If you use our OpenSource firmware, the efficiency is even higher.
- EBike wireless standard: wireless motor, wireless cycling GPS display Garmin Edge and wireless remote with wireless brake sensor
- TSDZ2 FAQ: issues and repairs, etc
- TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware

Developer of OpenSource knowledge and technology for ebikes: Wireless EBike standard ANT+ and Bluetooth, TSDZ2 OpenSource firmware, KT motor controllers and displays: Bafang 850C color, SW102 Bluetooth and KT-LCD3.

Please consider a donation to help developments: paypal.me/jorgecasa

shirk   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shirk » Mar 10 2021 1:28am

Does anyone happen to have a CAD file for the unit?

I am inspired to get a second one and hack it into something more like the Rocky Mountain Dyname 3.0 system.

Keep the lower housing and the small helical gear, off the blue gear run a 12t cog to a 44t cog on a jackshaft. The jackshaft would run a 12t to the rear cassette. It would involve flipping the output to the non drive side and switching wired so run it in reverse.

Need to figure out the torque sensor as I would like to run modern cranks instead of square taper, but could live with them short term to get it running.

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Elinx » Mar 10 2021 4:39am

shirk wrote:
Mar 10 2021 1:28am
Does anyone happen to have a CAD file for the unit?

I am inspired to get a second one and hack it into something more like the Rocky Mountain Dyname 3.0 system.....
Wapous had made some drawings of the complete tsdz2 for experimenting with this sort of modifications too.
If you read back you see the disccussion.

Waynemarlow   10 kW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by Waynemarlow » Mar 10 2021 5:48am

shirk wrote:
Mar 10 2021 1:28am
Need to figure out the torque sensor as I would like to run modern cranks instead of square taper, but could live with them short term to get it running.
Far better to get a small adaptor machined up from the square taper to the say the Shimano round where you can buy all sorts of length cranks and various offsets.

manoz   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Mar 10 2021 1:30pm

nbdriver wrote:
Mar 08 2021 8:11am
Hello,

Does somebody else here had his motor shaft (holding the cranks) broken ? Mine broke last week on the right side after about 2500Km. So now i have to order a new torque sensor with shaft as it is one piece, or buy a new complete motor as there where some upgrades, like helical gears since my first purchase in 2016.

But i'm still asking myself if it is a good idea since 2500Km isn't that much (Mostly City riding). But i find no equivalent to the awesome open source firmware.
You can buy them from ebird store on aliexpress, go to the $19 shipping option and pay for it and message them saying you want to buy an axle. I snapped an axle my standing on it at a traffic light uphill!!

manoz   100 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by manoz » Mar 10 2021 1:32pm

Hello all, I just inherited a tsdz2 motor from a collegue but the controller has a 8 pin connector and I have a 6 pin display. Is it a simple case of connected like for like colours at both ends together and leaving the 2 excess ones alone? Kind regards.

shirk   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shirk » Mar 10 2021 2:02pm

Elinx wrote:
Mar 10 2021 4:39am
shirk wrote:
Mar 10 2021 1:28am
Does anyone happen to have a CAD file for the unit?

I am inspired to get a second one and hack it into something more like the Rocky Mountain Dyname 3.0 system.....
Wapous had made some drawings of the complete tsdz2 for experimenting with this sort of modifications too.
If you read back you see the disccussion.
Thanks, I had missed that I will message him.

shirk   1 mW

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by shirk » Mar 10 2021 2:10pm

Waynemarlow wrote:
Mar 10 2021 5:48am
shirk wrote:
Mar 10 2021 1:28am
Need to figure out the torque sensor as I would like to run modern cranks instead of square taper, but could live with them short term to get it running.
Far better to get a small adaptor machined up from the square taper to the say the Shimano round where you can buy all sorts of length cranks and various offsets.
I plan to build a custom frame around repurposing the motor and primary drive but making a new secondary reduction then driving the rear cassette with a 12t cog.

Pretty sure I can repurpose a load sensor that will measure the chain pressure coming off the cranks before the chain goes into the output drive, this is how Rocky Mountain does it and how the new little "Lightest" unit does it.

Plan is to strip everything down to it's bare minimum and build a 350w eMtb running with just a single 14s1p battery. Primary use will be for a short lunch hour ride on the trails where the power is just an addition for the initial climb then it's all downhill back to home.

ilu   100 W

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Re: New "TSDZ2 Torque Sensor Central Motor"

Post by ilu » Mar 10 2021 3:05pm

manoz wrote:
Mar 10 2021 1:32pm
Hello all, I just inherited a tsdz2 motor from a collegue but the controller has a 8 pin connector and I have a 6 pin display. Is it a simple case of connected like for like colours at both ends together and leaving the 2 excess ones alone? Kind regards.
The colours in the wires do not match. Check this page for the proper combinations. If you want to use a brake sensor (or throttle), you can attach another cable(s) to the 8 wire cable as well, or just leave the excess wires cut.

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