#crossbreaks' midmotor CB120

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by crossbreak » Nov 14 2016 7:52pm

copper fill looked good from the pics i saw yet. Do you have a pic of that little copper fill, straby? They do offer custom winding during buying process now. Hope the Km isnt so much different for different KV, assuming they manage to stuff in equal amounts of copper though

still trying to get hands on that thing, so im in for group testing/buying

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boisrondevens   100 W

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by boisrondevens » Nov 15 2016 12:36am

I have some Video's one which I'm going way above the speed limit. Do you guys that I can get in trouble with police or any kind of legal problems?

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by macribs » Nov 15 2016 2:10am

I know a guy who posted a go-fast-motorcycle-vid on the tube, sure enough the coppers came knocking. He then claimed those videos where an art project and he had taken artistic freedom to alter the speedo with video editing software plus CGI and he was actually going less then the speed limit when shooting the video because of his long selfie stick.

Coppers left his house and he didn't even get a ticket.

I guess it all depends on you if coppers come knocking. If you play it cool chances are they pack up their nonsense and ride out of there.

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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by Wheazel » Nov 15 2016 9:09am

There are videos like this posted all the time every day. Unless you do something that raise a lot of attention its VERY unlikely anything could happen.
Maybe you could spark some interest if you rode 100km/h on the rear wheel holding a gun beside a kindergarten...

Besides, you don't have to show your face, and read you social security/citizenship number.

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by larsb » Nov 20 2016 4:45pm

I will check my rv120 for faults. For those of you that have a rv120 PRO/43kV: how much is your no load amps?
I'll spin the motor and check if phases are balanced. If they are then i'll try an encoder instead of halls for commutation. That'll be interesting!
Ride on!

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by toolman2 » Nov 25 2016 9:13am

litespeed wrote:For us not so techy guys I think this what we need. Most of us can do the mechanical parts of building mounts, gearing etc.... but the motor and controller quality, setup and rest of those details keeps most of us stuck on the bench.

I do not have the full amount to buy the whole set up but could help in a group purchase to get testing done....

If the Revolt guys know there product is good and want to sell a bunch this would be mutually beneficial to both them and us. Possibly a cheaper "test" subject could be purchased.

Can they think of a better way to advertise their product?

Tom
macribs wrote:Let me check if I understood you correctly Toolman2.

You are proposing a group buy of 120 or 160 motors. Before we put in the actual order you will get 1 motor to test it to check if the specs claimed by manufacturer are the real truth.

We as a group pay for the test motor together, so the cost of the test motor divided by number of buyers? And this we pay now upfront, which seems fine as it will give us a true test in return. Then if motor pass your test we each pay for as many motors we need and group buy is completed?

If this is the case I will be in for at least 1 x Rv 160, possible 2 x Rv 160.
Wheazel wrote:Also willing to contribute to a quality test of either the 120 or 160.
Depending on results I might want more than the 120pro I have already.
+crossbreak etc, Thanks for the response guys, been a bit flat out lately sorting the joby with a remote hall sensor setup, but myself and SplinterOZ are (hopefully) underway to fund the EV dyno retarder control/software package ourselves with maby a few guys here in OZ who then get free access to use it. So thinking about it macribs, it would help the whole process along if you are prepared to do the buy (and the own if the resulting performance meets your needs, or stated spec) -initially in my post i had in mind to buy a revolt 160pro long myself to kick the testing off but if your up for it then i can put more time and funds into completing the dyno and that would be awesome. Going off the stated specs (of 12kw continuous and 20 peak) and hopefully paypal? then its a safe investment, so yes lets make it happen.

In general i don't mind how we get various motors for testing but it makes sense that whoever is close enough to pulling the trigger (as we all often do) does so and it takes the round trip for testing and then to its rightful home. Any group buy would then be a separate matter but aspects of the motor may be found that require changes and its likely to be a far easier thing to get rolling when people are informed and know the real deal about what they are going to get, controller types and settings that work and how to set it up WRT gearing/voltage etc etc. Getting solid and reliable output power from 'difficult to drive' motors has been my thing for many years now but the sheer volume of naysayers posting on this challenging subject normally make the racetrack my preferred option, if we go this way though we can all share in the findings and i like to think that relatively small, light and powerful but slightly more challenging motors can then be put into use buy all of us with whatever package of controller, settings and gearing etc that is appropriate and proven to work.

So yep, lets stop sitting on the fence and do this -if folks are prepared to send a revolt, ill need the halls right for the test so will sort out them with new honeywells placed accurately (TBH ive rarely had a motor arrive with the halls well enough placed for good performance) and ill pay for the postage to get it back to you -or the factory :D

Heres an idea of the efforts required recently to get good clean hall signals to drive the joby, the motor is now reaching 10700 rpm (118k e-rpm) and higher currents than we have previously run and theres a vid of us checking the standing start performance when geared tall in preparation for an upcoming event on a tarmac go-cart track.
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https://youtu.be/_Y-_i24yV44


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Wheazel   10 kW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by Wheazel » Nov 28 2016 2:27am

If a very lightly used rv120pro would be good enough for testing purposes, I could send it.
Only collecting dust on a shelf anyway.

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by 9lives » Nov 29 2016 3:13am

Toolman, I'd be happy to lend my 160short if that helps the cause. Looks like we are on the same continent at least.

Also, what controller are you using on your joby? Is there a build thread for your bike? Loved the videos.

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by madin88 » Nov 30 2016 1:28pm

From all the user reports and testings of revolt motors, it seems those are not the best choice if you are looking for igh performance and good efficiency.
Before i've seen a thread where a guy was testing no-load consumption on an RV-160 short and he measured about 1000W at 4000rpm. Also he reported poor copper fill and high bearing friction and such things..
EDIT: LINK
So i ask myself: Why would you guys like to have a special ES edition made of those 0815 motors?
The price may be an argument, but otherwise?

I think following type of motors (or the manufacturer generally) would be much better choice for an ES custom edtion or group buy:

http://hacker-industrial-solutions.com/ ... der-q-100/

e-cart
http://hacker-industrial-solutions.com/ ... ie/#post/0

The Hacker Q100 is available already with sensors and the materials and everything should be state of the art.
with it's 100x38mm stator it should eat any BigBlock style motor and with 2,1kg it is extremely lightweight.
Only downside is the price (about 1000€ when looking at the the Q100-L for RC planes), but a joby costs 2-3times more :)

@ toolman

impressive acceleration! I like your fabrication skills about the hall sensor conversion. Awesome work^^
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: [url]viewtopic.php?
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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by larsb » Dec 16 2016 1:37pm

I agree totally with you madin - in addition to that i also think that the motor for any group buy test risk having been given special treatment by manufacturer (not meaning Revolt in specific) so results might not be valid.

I can mention that I received from Revolt that my motor is wound with 12 turns of 6x0,8 mm wire. When i check the windings there are only 5 in parallell. That's quite a difference!
Ride on!

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by Karolis » Dec 18 2016 6:20am

I would suggest don't bother with RV-160. Actually it doesn't matter if it is pro or short. The story is the same. Idea for motor is not bad, but manufacturing is more than awful. The rotor is so unbalance, that you need 30g of lead in one end. I made new covers, adapters, stator fixation, axle, to get rid of those large bearings. Now it is only 2 small bearings instead of 3. Tried to balance the rotor but i see that it is almost mission impossible. I think pictures will talk by them self.
PS. cover where lead weight added is 7mm thick, added 1Euro coin near by for comparison and this (18mm diameter and 7mm of lead is still not enough for balancing) :D Also please take note tried to measure rotor thickness and found immediately why rotor is so unbalance. The measuring tool is fixed. So you already see the problem why this rotor is peace of sh... winding also is so badly made, and i am not talking even how the hall sensors attached. If i'd known that form beginning, i w'd even bothered with it.
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riba2233   1 MW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by riba2233 » Dec 18 2016 10:44am

Thanks for sharing! :?
My electric moped: http://www.evalbum.com/4966

My electric car: http://www.evalbum.com/5364

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by larsb » Dec 28 2016 3:47pm

I just started a thread on rewinding Rv120 in the motor section.
My first estimate of fill factor is around 30%, that is really low. I hope to get it to 65% but let's see, picking up the motor tomorrow.
Ride on!

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by boisrondevens » Dec 28 2016 11:00pm

Bad apple... Revolt don't fabric or make their own can. It's ordered with me magnet included. I need personally think that Alexey’s (revolt) will exchange or work this out fairly for you as he did for me in the past. Send him pics and you are good to go.

PS: I don't have any business the revolt...

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by Karolis » Dec 29 2016 2:55pm

boisrondevens thank you for information.

I think I will stay with current rotor cause i have already tried to balance the rotor.

You can clearly see in video that rotor is not straight but this is rotor's defect that i mentioned above
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gBfsXFCJ58
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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by crossbreak » Jan 23 2017 7:01pm

copper fill looks poor in these pics :( the hacker motors have the same issue on the bearings as the R120 has, so thats no option. Too much drag and low live time. Just the wrong design - no matter if you go for an ebike drive or copter. I'd like this motor for both applications.
It's a shame that we still deal with digital hall sensors and their hysteresis/delay and alignment these days. I know these motors are hard to drive and a digital hall effect feedback is a poor way to measure rotor position...why Engineerings still dont go for analoge halls - i do or at least want to. They are as dirt cheap as digital ones and the signal transfer issues can be handled these days by digital filters and shielded hall cables. uController performance is awesome these days- STmicro annonced a 400mhz chip for Q2. Much room for improvement here, to get these sukkers runs even with poorly aligned analog halls, it can all be done by software

Ýes, ordering and testing just one is a good idea. It's my job to buy that $1400 prototype and improve, but thats too much for me.

Dynamic balancing is no big deal if you have the right machine. Sadly these are expensive. That's why a joby is - you still get what you pay for

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madin88   1 GW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by madin88 » Jan 24 2017 2:59am

crossbreak wrote:the hacker motors have the same issue on the bearings as the R120 has, so thats no option. Too much drag and low live time. Just the wrong design - no matter if you go for an ebike drive or copter. I'd like this motor for both applications.
The hacker motor doesn't have a large bearing as the revolt has. The bearing drag is similar to an inrunner ;)
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: [url]viewtopic.php?
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case


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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by bionicon » Jan 25 2017 3:49pm

crossbreak wrote:A large hollow shaft - just two bearings :shock: nice!
Thats why I put two extra small bearings on the shaft :roll:
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crossbreak   100 MW

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by crossbreak » Jan 25 2017 6:52pm

Image
bionicon wrote:
crossbreak wrote:A large hollow shaft - just two bearings :shock: nice!
Thats why I put two extra small bearings on the shaft :roll:
yep, that is curing the evil. it works for some time. i tried and it does. bigger is better though


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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by bionicon » Jan 26 2017 1:59am

Euh its a Q150-45 :lol:

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by madin88 » Jan 26 2017 3:47am

bionicon wrote:Euh its a Q150-45 :lol:
:o thumbs up!
is there a thread about that conversion, and what controller are you using?
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: [url]viewtopic.php?
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by bionicon » Jan 26 2017 5:54am

Sorry no thread about this , still collecting parts but the motor will be on a modified derbi senda alu-frame.
I also use the hacker 350 controller and a 5kwh lippo pack :lol:

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Re: Custom RV120 for ebike use: group order Rv120-ES edition

Post by Wheazel » Jan 26 2017 6:43am

Is that Joby pricing territory? Or did you strike a good deal on those?

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