Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

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hedsik   10 mW

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by hedsik » Dec 05 2016 7:49pm

No more wheelies? You used to be cool man! :lol:
I am loving the fact that you're as fastidious on the power to weight as I am.

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Dec 05 2016 8:17pm

hedsik wrote:No more wheelies? You used to be cool man! :lol:
I am loving the fact that you're as fastidious on the power to weight as I am.
It still wheelies, just not so violently. That job is for my Raptor build.

I installed new cranks. That shaved of another pound exactly. I can feel the weight difference from when I started. Thing is, extremely light weight does seem to make the bike squirrely (well, just a little bit). So, I don't know how much lighter I want to make it. Of course, I can always add a bit more lipo to the bike. That would keep the weight at an ideal level for stability while adding range.

Matt
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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by Alex07 » Dec 06 2016 7:06am

I installed new cranks. That shaved of another pound exactly
Do you have any photos of the carbon freewheel cranks ? where did you find those ?

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Dec 06 2016 7:29am

Alex07 wrote:
I installed new cranks. That shaved of another pound exactly
Do you have any photos of the carbon freewheel cranks ? where did you find those ?
They are just standard Origin-8 aluminum cranks. The weight saving was from the removal of the freewheeling cranks and going to standard cranks.

Matt
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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by Ecyclist » Dec 20 2016 1:46am

Very cool build. Congrats!!!

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Tom on 101   10 mW

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by Tom on 101 » Jan 31 2017 11:08am

Really great bike build. Congrats! I'm very interested in how you used the castle creations controller. How did you modify it to work with the ebike throttle(did I miss that post?) very cool as I've used castle creations controller befor and they are really good. I'm pulling 20 amp on my system and I'm sure it could benefit from a great controller upgrade but I'm a bit intimidated as I not sure if the throttle I put will work without a serious mod, or does it work using the rc throttle inputs wired to the a standard 3 wire throttle?

Thanks for the inspiration though, that bike is a great example. I'll be looking at your other posts too.

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Jan 31 2017 7:28pm

Tom on 101 wrote:Really great bike build. Congrats! I'm very interested in how you used the castle creations controller. How did you modify it to work with the ebike throttle(did I miss that post?) very cool as I've used castle creations controller befor and they are really good. I'm pulling 20 amp on my system and I'm sure it could benefit from a great controller upgrade but I'm a bit intimidated as I not sure if the throttle I put will work without a serious mod, or does it work using the rc throttle inputs wired to the a standard 3 wire throttle?

Thanks for the inspiration though, that bike is a great example. I'll be looking at your other posts too.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=12196

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Feb 01 2017 7:36pm

Here is a walk-around video of the bike. Enjoy.

https://youtu.be/ZnpVEakzClE

Matt
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cheekybloke   1 kW

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by cheekybloke » Feb 09 2017 2:13pm

Awesome work as usual Matt,
When are you going to a bb drive version to see how much power you can put through the bike drivetrain?
Myself and i assume many others will be very interested to see the results,problems and how you adapt around them.
Darren
P.S. i run 6kw peak through mine and its fine .

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by macribs » Feb 09 2017 6:36pm

I think the reason why he does left side drives and not run power on the crank or right side chain is to avoid any problems. Probably he has already tried right side drives years back and come to the conclusion left side drives works for him and his hi powered Astro's.

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by cheekybloke » Feb 13 2017 10:35am

macribs wrote:I think the reason why he does left side drives and not run power on the crank or right side chain is to avoid any problems. Probably he has already tried right side drives years back and come to the conclusion left side drives works for him and his hi powered Astro's.
This build was initially going to be a bb drive and then he changed his mind.
I still would like to see a 3220 fed through the cranks at very high rpm .
Darren

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Feb 18 2017 4:48pm

It looks like I will be sticking with the tiny 3210 motor on this bike. I thought the power was a bit low. However, it turns out I had the voltage set incorrectly on my charger causing the bike to run a bit soft. With the voltage set up at the proper limit, this thing rocks with this tiny motor!

I just need to fabricate a sound deadening shroud to go around the motor pulley. At 13,000+ RPM, the belt whine is a little more than I would like.

Matt
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ScooterMan101   1 MW

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by ScooterMan101 » Mar 31 2017 1:50pm

Matt,

Meaning you are using a square taper Bottom Bracket, and square taper crank arms ?

Using the Shimano Hollowtec II Crankset and BB system will also loose alot of weight as well as give you the option of getting every number Tooth Chainring available both from Shimano and Aftermarket that has the same BCD as the Hollowtec II cranks.

( BTW , do not confuse less weight with less stability, that Mountain Cycles frame was made in an time period when there was still allot of design work to to on frames and forks, they made a slightly different frame / swing arm after that one.
Any Modern , 2010 and newer light weight All Mountain / Enduro , or even a strong , quality C.C. full suspension frame will have the stability that you want and you can still have a under 50 pound bike. )
Look for 34/35/36 mm stantion 2016 fork , that is tapered and has the 15 x 100 mm through axle . I say 2016 because that is when Fox fixed the internal's on the Fox 34. I think the Fox 36 always had the better internal's . There was a time Period where many report of poor quality with Fox, until 2016. However the Fox 32 from 2014 and newer is rated good, but for an e-bike , from what I have been researching it is best to get one of the 34/35/36 mm Stantion Forks .
( you can take some older frames that are 1 1/8 " top and bottom headtube , and with the right adaptor bottom bearing you can put a 1.5 inch tapered modern fork on that bike. Not possible a few years ago , but there are a couple of people on youtube in the last year that have done that hack ).


recumpence wrote:
Alex07 wrote:
Do you have any photos of the carbon freewheel cranks ? where did you find those ?
They are just standard Origin-8 aluminum cranks. The weight saving was from the removal of the freewheeling cranks and going to standard cranks.

Matt[/quote]
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by RageNR » Apr 04 2017 12:19am

ScooterMan101 wrote:Look for 34/35/36 mm stantion 2016 fork , that is tapered and has the 15 x 100 mm through axle . I say 2016 because that is when Fox fixed the internal's on the Fox 34. I think the Fox 36 always had the better internal's . There was a time Period where many report of poor quality with Fox, until 2016. However the Fox 32 from 2014 and newer is rated good, but for an e-bike , from what I have been researching it is best to get one of the 34/35/36 mm Stantion Forks .
( you can take some older frames that are 1 1/8 " top and bottom headtube , and with the right adaptor bottom bearing you can put a 1.5 inch tapered modern fork on that bike. Not possible a few years ago , but there are a couple of people on youtube in the last year that have done that hack ).
I've been pondering on this exact subject. My Klein Mantra has a bad fork, and I've been researching for a better replacement.
The Mantra frame should be able to accommodate such a mod, I would think.
Mind elaborating on what this involves, and others you have seen accomplish this?

I do not want to clutter up the OP's build thread, so you can post your response in my thread if you like. Link is in my sig.
MOVE IT YOU BI-PEDALING OBSTRUCTIONS!!!!!!! RAAAAGGGGGEEEEEEEEE
My Klein Mantra mid-drive Cyclone build thread: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=81052

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by ScooterMan101 » Apr 04 2017 10:54pm

I will post the reply/links here so that others can see what I am talking about as well.

These videos are DIY so you will have to ask a bike shop or better yet call Cane Creek in North Carolina and ask them about the Bottom Cup that they sell for use on a Straight Head Tube, so that you can use a modern tapered fork.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3vr2uthzQ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8M8pJzo340

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91ps1jxFMjY
My first conversion ...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 1#p1077497

It's 2018 already, lets get some real , improved e-bike / e-velomobile / e-motorcycle designs .

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Apr 27 2017 11:51am

I made a few changes to the bike and I have one interesting item to point out.....

First, as you can see by the pictures, the bike looks different. I made an add-on pack to increase range and I added a splashguard.

The pack is easy to add or remove (as is the splashguard). I added the pack for a few reasons;

#1 I am moving toward longer rides. I am regularly going on 20 mile rides. This pouts my pack at a very low state when I return home. I do not like having no reserve.
#2 The pack will last longer using less capacity for each ride.
#3 I do not have to recharge after every ride. I can be confident that I always have some capacity left for a ride on the spur of the moment. Plus, I can remove the add-on pack at any time to reduce the weight.
#4 I had the two 6S-8AH packs lying around doing nothing anyway. :D

The splashguard was added not because I want to ride in inclement weather, but because I have had a couple occasions where I hit an unseen puddle and this bike has many nooks and crannies that are tough to clean. So, in keeping with the long range bike theme, I added a splashguard. The pack and splash guard can be removed in 10 minutes if I so desire for lighter weight rides not requiring long range.

It is interesting. The bike actually handles better with the added weight of the pack. I think 50 pounds is a bike light for a bike that hits 30mph top speed. Even with a relatively relaxed head-tube angle, it still feels a bit twitchy at full throttle, or it used to feel a tiny bit twitchy. Now, with the added 4 pounds or so, the bike is more stable, and a bit less wheelie prone. I like it. :D

Lastly, I had an interesting occurrance the other day...... I was jumping the bike and the motor wires unplugged and shorted out. They shorted so badly I had to cut off the motor wire commectors and solder on new ones because the copper was melted. It was quite the lightning show! Believe it or not, the controller survived! Or so I thought..... :( I repaired the connectors, tried the bike for a coiuple short rides and the controller seemed fine. But, 6 miles from home, riding gentle, the controller burst into flames! Bummer.... So, I had to pedal this 55 pound bike home in a hilly area, against the wind. Not fun. I have seen this in the past with many different controllers. It is not a RC controller issue. It is a motor controller issue. If an extremely harsh situation occurs with the controller, it can damage it internally and it will seem fine, for the short run. But, in a few miles, it will blow completely. I had one contorller in stock. So, it was OK. But, new controllers are not cheap. So, protect those connectors! :mrgreen:

Matt
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Ddt   100 mW

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by Ddt » Apr 27 2017 5:57pm

How do you have calculate the anti-squad?

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by jansevr » Apr 27 2017 6:06pm

Very cool as always ;). Sorry to hear about the mishap with the connectors. Bullet? If the fit is loose I try to slightly bend the male connector's prongs outwards a bit. And although some think it is tacky or unprofessional gorilla tape has become a huge help with these bikes for me. For all connectors and soldered connections I use heat shrink & then gorilla tape over that.

On an unrelated note I still have to meet up with you sometime and ride. Waiting on a new sabvoton controller but after that I should he ready to roll. Curious to see how your astro drive systems stack up to a high powered hub.

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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Apr 27 2017 8:00pm

jansevr wrote:Very cool as always ;). Sorry to hear about the mishap with the connectors. Bullet? If the fit is loose I try to slightly bend the male connector's prongs outwards a bit. And although some think it is tacky or unprofessional gorilla tape has become a huge help with these bikes for me. For all connectors and soldered connections I use heat shrink & then gorilla tape over that.

On an unrelated note I still have to meet up with you sometime and ride. Waiting on a new sabvoton controller but after that I should he ready to roll. Curious to see how your astro drive systems stack up to a high powered hub.
Funny you mention that. If you look closely you will see that I have Gorilla Tape in the connectors to hold them together now.

As for how my systems compare to hubbies; I would say the throttle snap is incredible, the torque is mind bending, and the CG is wonderful. The downside of my personal bikes is the short gearing. My Raptor is geared for 40 mph. That is plenty fast for me. But, alot of the large hub motor guys like 50mph. That is just too much speed. I prefer acceleration over top speed.
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Re: Light weight full suspension mountainbike --WITH VIDEO--

Post by recumpence » Jan 11 2018 9:04am

A quick update on the bike. I removed the 13000 RPM 3210 Motor from the bike and replaced it with a 7,000 RPM 3220 motor. I also geared it up twice as tall. What that did is gave me the same top speed with a slight increase in torque and much smoother operation and quieter. The high pitch sound from the belt has been replaced with a much more mellow hum. It's more pleasant to listen to now.

I also replaced the battery pack. As you can see in the previous pictures, I had added some cells underneath the frame tube just ahead of the motor. That was to increase the pack capacity from the original 16 amp hours to a larger 24 hours. I enjoyed the range that gave me. However, the front tire came very close to that lower battery pack and I was having issues with the cells beginning to puff. So, I went with newer and higher quality multi-star lipo packs in the same larger 24 amp hour capacity. Those packs fit between the frame rails but hang out to the sides about a half inch on either side wider than the original pack. So, I made wider spacers to account for the wider battery pack. I prefer this look much better and these cells are higher quality and the overall pack weight is lower. I also removed the knobby tires in favor of street tires. I found myself riding this bike much more in an urban environment than off-road. These tires give decent off-road grip and are much better on the street. Over all this bike is now perfect for my needs! I absolutely love it and I ride it every single day! :-)
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