Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by WoodlandHills » Nov 25, 2016 10:53 am

That sort of frame will have to come from a major manufacturer: custom bicycle frame builders are among the most fanatical of the human power only brigade. I can't see one of them offering such a frame to the public, they would lose ALL their push-bike business overnight..... :lol:

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by evolutiongts » Dec 02, 2016 5:25 pm

Phase runner still alive and kicking with the BBSHD at 74V, no climb I can't climb and acceleration is absolutely insane, akin to a light dirt bike. Could not get the motor warm albeit it's Winter now in Socal.
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by evolveinla » Dec 07, 2016 2:46 pm

ERT question-----

Hi all,

New to endless sphere, but I am a LONGtime fan of high-performace e-transport. Was one of the first purchasers of the Super Lithium 1500 scooter in the US. Have a Kuberg FreeRider bike, and two Evolve GT skateboards (3000w). Into motocross and mountain biking also.

Haven't done an e-bike yet but planning to. Read a TON of info on the BBSHD mid drives, the Tangent Ascent system, and read all of Eric's awesome info on the Luna Cycles site and YT page. Also very, very interested in the Enduro E-bike and the DIY community that has developed here for it.

My question now is for ERT.

1. Very interested in getting a BBSHD, pairing it with one of your controllers, and a good 72v pack (hope Luna has them again soon). Which of the 2 controllers would you recommend now - your sinewave one in the aluminum enclosure or this new Grin Phase?

2. Main diff seems to be - you said the bike makes better power at 72v using the GP, correct? Also, obviously the GP is much more compact. As one user said, would be great if it could be made in a different form factor to fit right into the motor cover.

3. I read your programming instructions for the sinewave controller, but could find no info about this for the new Grin Phase Runner. Can you connect it to a PC and adjust all the parameters, like you can with the sinewave? If yes, will you make a blog post on this? Or do all adjustments (watt limit, low volt cutoff, etc) have to be done only thru the CA?

Thanks to all contributors here, great community. High-performance e-transport is a really cool thing - everybody who first tries the Lithium 1500, which can wheelie from a standing start and do a smoky doughnut on concrete, has an ear-to-ear grin. Unexpected power/speed from electric stuff really surprises people!

I can't wait to make a super hi-powered MTB or fatbike in the near future (and maybe DIY the Enduro E bike as well).

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by dirkdiggler » Dec 08, 2016 1:23 pm

Does this work with the BBS02 750w or just the BBSHD? I want a bit more power out of my 750w, but don't really want to kill it.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by evolutiongts » Dec 08, 2016 4:08 pm

Should work with both, I have both motors but I've only really tried it with the HD. My BBs02 gets hot even with the stock controller. Where as my HD never exceeds 64C under hard riding. During the winter time I push 3000W thru it and it never gets beyond 50C
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by dirkdiggler » Dec 08, 2016 6:59 pm

That's my concern. Had the BBS02 hotter than it should be a bunch of times on long climbs. Don't know if increasing amps will fry it or help keep the temps down. Also debating whether to just get another Cyclone or grab a BBSHD motor from Luna and buy your controller for another fat bike project.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by spinningmagnets » Dec 08, 2016 7:06 pm

Plenty of riders are using a BBS02 at 1000W, but....the stock BBSHD is running 1500W without issue, and boosting it to 2000W+ with an external controller seems to be working OK so far, so the heavier duty BBSHD is definitely the kit that you'd want to boost, compared to the BBS02.

If you do decide to hot rod the BBS02 with an external controller, add a temp probe with a readout. You might also want to order a spare freewheel and plastic gear, which are known points of failure when it is fed too much power. That way you can get back on the road fairly fast if you push it too hard. The BBSHD can be broken too, but...it takes a lot more to do that.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by fechter » Dec 09, 2016 10:20 am

dirkdiggler wrote:That's my concern. Had the BBS02 hotter than it should be a bunch of times on long climbs. Don't know if increasing amps will fry it or help keep the temps down. Also debating whether to just get another Cyclone or grab a BBSHD motor from Luna and buy your controller for another fat bike project.
From what I have gathered, motor temp is a key factor in the gear failures. As long as the motor temps are kept down, the gears seem to hold up.
Increasing amps will make it hotter if you run it at the current limit. Road speed has a huge effect on cooling so if you're going at 20mph, it can take a lot more power than it can climbing a steep hill at 6mph.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by gensem » Jan 12, 2017 6:59 am

Does gearsensor (deraileur version) and hydraulic brake sensors works with phaserunner?

Do you plan to embedded phaserunner inside the BBSHD?
Justin we really appreciate what you did!

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by WoodlandHills » Jan 24, 2017 2:30 pm

I recieved my Phaserunner/CA3 kit from ERT yesterday and after mocking up the installation on my bike I must say that I am very impressed: both the CA3 and the Phaserunner are quality items and the cabling and termination of the ERT kit is excellent. It was all well packed and arrived w/o any damage.

Of course, being a generic kit the cabling is all the wrong length, but I expected that and will be marking the correct dimensions for ERT to custom build the harness to my specs. Looking back, I should have asked for a bare wire kit so that Alan would not have to redo his own work :oops: Sorry!

I am going to be taking my time with this build since winter is actually the best season to ride out here and I already have a pair of eMTBs built waiting to be enjoyed. I'll use one of my old BBSHDs to work out cable length, but will be ordering a new one for this build. That way any premature wear is all down to this build only and not any abuse I might have put it through previously! The intent is to run the BBSHD at 52v and 40a initially, moving up to 72v once I work out how to mount the larger pack.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by LyonNightroad » Feb 02, 2017 5:01 pm

Can we please not put videos like these on YouTube (riding on public roads) and avoid hooning in front of crowds. Let's try not to kill this hobby just so we can look cool or make a few piddly dollars...

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by Sean9002 » Feb 02, 2017 8:15 pm

LyonNightroad wrote:Can we please not put videos like these on YouTube (riding on public roads) and avoid hooning in front of crowds. Let's try not to kill this hobby just so we can look cool or make a few piddly dollars...
Fun police in the mother flippin' house! :lol:
You can always upload videos to be 'unlisted' so it cant be searched but it can be accessed by a URL. That way only memebers will see the URL published.
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by robocam » Feb 02, 2017 10:36 pm

Which videos are you referring to? Hooning?
LyonNightroad wrote:Can we please not put videos like these on YouTube (riding on public roads) and avoid hooning in front of crowds. Let's try not to kill this hobby just so we can look cool or make a few piddly dollars...

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 02, 2017 11:21 pm

I felt the same way at one time, but I've come to realize that particular ship sailed a long time ago. Anyone who wants can find hundreds of videos that reflect poorly on us, as far as trail access goes, that were made a year or two ago. What harm will new content do?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by LyonNightroad » Feb 03, 2017 10:34 am

robocam wrote:Which videos are you referring to? Hooning?
The one on the Las Vegas strip is the one that got to me the most. It wasn't too bad at first, but it quickly got very busy.

WoodlandHills wrote:I felt the same way at one time, but I've come to realize that particular ship sailed a long time ago. Anyone who wants can find hundreds of videos that reflect poorly on us, as far as trail access goes, that were made a year or two ago. What harm will new content do?
I'm not concerned with someone searching existing videos, they probably already have an agenda. I'm concerned with public awareness. I want to keep high powered ebikes out of the public mind for as long as possible. Every new video brings more views. So far I can only find one fast ebike video in the past 3 years with more than a million views.
Sean9002 wrote:
Fun police in the mother flippin' house! :lol:
You can always upload videos to be 'unlisted' so it cant be searched but it can be accessed by a URL. That way only memebers will see the URL published.
Good point. Also, I genuinely want us to have fun for as long as possible. I have no problem with having fun on high powered ebikes and riding in places that we shouldn't, let's just try not to do it in front of people. When you do make yourself visible you are affecting every other person who rides. Putting videos on youtube just multiplies the effect.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 03, 2017 11:05 am

So for you the issue is not the criminal behavior by riders of illegal emotorcycles, but their posting of video documenting their violations? That's an interesting viewpoint.......

As long as lawbreakers are only seen in realtime by the folks that they live among and are not subject to a Google search you are cool with them doing whatever they want? That's analogous to saying that shoplifting is no big deal as long as you don't put the video on YouTube because then it will make it hard on all the other store thieves out there.

As a suggestion, maybe as a community we should put peer pressure on our fellows to obey the existing laws and simultaneously work to align those laws with our needs. You know, like people do in democracies....... Or is that just too damn much trouble?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by LyonNightroad » Feb 03, 2017 11:14 am

WoodlandHills wrote:So for you the issue is not the criminal behavior by riders of illegal emotorcycles, but their posting of video documenting their violations? That's an interesting viewpoint.......

As long as lawbreakers are only seen in realtime by the folks that they live among and are not subject to a Google search you are cool with them doing whatever they want? That's analogous to saying that shoplifting is no big deal as long as you don't put the video on YouTube because then it will make it hard on all the other store thieves out there.

As a suggestion, maybe as a community we should put peer pressure on our fellows to obey the existing laws and simultaneously work to align those laws with our needs. You know, like people do in democracies....... Or is that just too damn much trouble?
Yep, that about sums it up. My goal is to delay enforcement of the existing laws or strengthening of the laws. Excessive risk aversion and distortion of public perception of risk through sensational viral media of low frequency high severity events is too high today for me to trust the process of law to be reasonable. Instead I advocate for self-enforcement, which is effectively what we are operating under right now with so little enforcement effort. We can continue to do so until the worst of us ruin it for everyone in the community.

However, I know it is inevitable that this glorious period of self enforcement will end. Low inhibition, highly extrinsically motivated individuals will inevitably become attracted to this hobby and destroy it (by triggering legislation and enforcement), as they have to numerous hobbies before.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by LyonNightroad » Feb 03, 2017 12:23 pm

But anyway, I apologize for bringing this up here and now, I was just in a bad mood at the time. If I were in a neutral state I wouldn't even bother to comment on it, my efforts are ultimately ineffectual. It's better for me to just enjoy what we have while we have it and not bother being stressed about it. Ultimately all things are impermanent.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by evolutiongts » Feb 06, 2017 8:46 pm

The beauty of the Phase Runner is that it allows higher RPM through field weakening, which allows you to stay in the lower gears therefore maximizing torque. Granny gear allows me up to 25mph which is fantastic for off-road.
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Feb 06, 2017 10:59 pm

How many teeth are on the rear cog and how many teeth are on the front chainring when you're doing 25 miles per hour using the phase runner?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by evolutiongts » Feb 07, 2017 9:39 pm

StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:How many teeth are on the rear cog and how many teeth are on the front chainring when you're doing 25 miles per hour using the phase runner?
42T rear and 30T front.
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by evolutiongts » Feb 07, 2017 9:45 pm

You will get better performance from running higher voltage vs lower voltage and high amps.

In addition, lower voltage + high amps will cause more heat in the BBSHD.

With higher voltages, the motor will simply run at a higher RPM but not necessarily need to pull higher amps.

Higher RPM's= More power overall

Although you can use field weakening to boost RPM's at lower voltages but the controller will be forced to draw higher amps, you lose efficiency and higher heat build up.

Surprisingly, the BBSHD barely gets warm at 72V compared to 48V in which it gets warmer, and I beat the hell out of it.
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Feb 08, 2017 1:32 am

That's insane. If I can hit 25MPH using 30T in front to a 42T in the rear, I would just run it as a single speed and get rid of the derailleur. I could also use BMX chain to boot. I'm fine with 25MPH and that gear ratio, as that will climb anything.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 08, 2017 1:36 am

evolutiongts wrote:You will get better performance from running higher voltage vs lower voltage and high amps.

In addition, lower voltage + high amps will cause more heat in the BBSHD.

With higher voltages, the motor will simply run at a higher RPM but not necessarily need to pull higher amps.

Higher RPM's= More power overall

Although you can use field weakening to boost RPM's at lower voltages but the controller will be forced to draw higher amps, you lose efficiency and higher heat build up.

Surprisingly, the BBSHD barely gets warm at 72V compared to 48V in which it gets warmer, and I beat the hell out of it.
So can we figure that amps is equivalent to torque and volts are equivalent to horsepower? In a general sense?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 08, 2017 1:37 am

StinkyGoalieGuy wrote:That's insane. If I can hit 25MPH using 30T in front to a 42T in the rear, I would just run it as a single speed and get rid of the derailleur. I could also use BMX chain to boot. I'm fine with 25MPH and that gear ratio, as that will climb anything.
Or you could use an IGH with that BMX chain and have three speed ranges.......

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