Ultimate BBSHD Grin Phase Runner FOC 3000W

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sather   100 W

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by sather » Oct 20 2016 6:27am

Are you using the CA3 throttle, or your own throttle with the CA3 in "legacy mode" to monitor temps, speed, watts and amps? If using the CA throttle, how smooth have you been able to get it? I currently have a CA3/ Lyen/ LR3000 watt and I have pretty much given up on trying to get smooth throttle response.

In a previous post by Matador there was mention of a metal gear? Is that something you have under development?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Oct 20 2016 8:12am

I'm using my own throttle in Legacy mode, my controller has a CA analyst plug already so you can already use it to monitor watts, amps, and temp. The temp sensor plug is merely adapted from the BBSHDs hall sensor harness. With sinewave controllers I just leave the throttle in pass thru mode I don't touch any of the throttle settings as sinewave controllers are naturally smooth. It is impossible to get a Lyen controller smooth as it is a square wave controller
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Oct 20 2016 11:56am

Unholy amounts of power, RPM, and torque. Very smooth.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by drew12345 » Oct 20 2016 12:43pm

Amazing little controller. I thought it would totally overheat!

What bike stand is that?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by Matador » Oct 20 2016 8:10pm

I'm sure that this Phase Runner could be fitted in the original BBSHD controller aluminium bolt-on encasing... If it could only be compatible with the Bafang PAS system and the Bafang speedometer, break inhibitors, gearshift sensor and throttle controller :roll: that would be the perfect solution... clean, almost factory look, yet 50A for high tork and a lot higher voltage than the 60 volts HVC (72 volts nominal, if not higher on the Phase Runner) for increased top speed ! :wink: I wish !

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by hie2kolob » Oct 24 2016 12:51pm

As I have an extra BBS02 kicking around what are your thoughts about running an external controller and higher voltage?
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by sather » Oct 24 2016 2:12pm

As long as you monitor temperatures you'll be OK. The BBS02 runs hotter than the BBSHD and is much more prone to melting the nylon gear. I melted three in my BBS02s. I have abused my BBSHDs much more with no problems of any kind.

The BBS02 phase connectors are the same as the later BBSHDs (not andersons) and the hall plug is the same, so if you buy a controller from Electricrt it should be simple plug and play.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by WoodlandHills » Oct 24 2016 5:25pm

Now, if only Luna will restock some 72v batteries! :lol:

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by hie2kolob » Oct 24 2016 6:34pm

sather wrote:As long as you monitor temperatures you'll be OK. The BBS02 runs hotter than the BBSHD and is much more prone to melting the nylon gear. I melted three in my BBS02s. I have abused my BBSHDs much more with no problems of any kind.

The BBS02 phase connectors are the same as the later BBSHDs (not andersons) and the hall plug is the same, so if you buy a controller from Electricrt it should be simple plug and play.
Thanks for the info!

It looks like a 74V 50A Grin Phase Runner FOC Sinewave controller is being use on his later mod.

Which controller would you recommend?
"The only good bike is an electric bike." -- Thomas Edison

"Well behaved cyclists rarely make history." -- Marilyn Monroe or was it Lance Armstrong

"Two things are infinite. Cycling and human stupidity... and I'm not sure about cycling." -- Albert Einstein

"The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single pedal stroke." -- Lao Tzo

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Oct 24 2016 7:02pm

hie2kolob wrote:
sather wrote:As long as you monitor temperatures you'll be OK. The BBS02 runs hotter than the BBSHD and is much more prone to melting the nylon gear. I melted three in my BBS02s. I have abused my BBSHDs much more with no problems of any kind.

The BBS02 phase connectors are the same as the later BBSHDs (not andersons) and the hall plug is the same, so if you buy a controller from Electricrt it should be simple plug and play.
Thanks for the info!

It looks like a 74V 50A Grin Phase Runner FOC Sinewave controller is being use on his later mod.

Which controller would you recommend?
Grin Phase runner is a very nice controller, probably the best suited for the BBSHD overall. I'm hitting 30mph on the biggest 3 cogs, and Im running a 9 speed. I off road so I never need the other gears. Very smooth, excellent acceleration.
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by sather » Oct 24 2016 7:45pm

I have no idea which controller is better for you. The Electricrt controller claims to be "plug and play". No wire splicing or programming, just plug in and go. Obviously, the Phaserunner is much smaller, more stealthy, handles 10 more amps and costs twice as much. The Phaserunner is not "plug and play". With the Phaserunner you must splice the hall wires into the BBSHD and the Phaserunner's phase wires come with Andersons which won't work on the later versions of the BBSHD which have round connectors. The Phaserunner must "auto configure" which requires downloading software and for the user to make some educated guessing as to the Kv of the BBSHD.
Last edited by sather on Oct 24 2016 7:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by drew12345 » Oct 24 2016 7:49pm

I was thinking same thing. Evolution did mention it was a pain to setup. Is the phase runner as quiet as the sine wave?

Edit: since evolution set the other controller to be plug n play, he can probably do same for phaserunner?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by sather » Oct 24 2016 8:03pm

Probably. At what price? With what throttle? Would you have to purchase a Cycle Analyst 3, pre programmed for the Phaserunner/BBSHD? So many questions.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by waynebergman » Oct 24 2016 9:18pm

If one was happy with a top speed of 30mph say on a trail bike with this 88v configuration I am guessing a simple one speed would be the way to go.

I am thinking if you had something like a one to one gearing coming off the BBSHD like a 42/42 the motor would get you to around 30mph (27.5 wheels or fat tire bike) and still have plenty of power to climb the hills even with the one gear. The only draw back is you can forget any pedal input after say 10 mph or so.

If there becomes an easy to instal controller solution the higher volt pack may let a person skip all the hasstle and cost and weight of gearing issues. It may even pay off long term over going high voltage and one speed?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by sather » Oct 25 2016 7:02am

What crank RPMs are you assuming at 88 volts? Bruno measured the BBSHD's no load speed at 180 RPM at 58.8 volts so a linear increase would give approx. 270 RPM without flux weakening.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by hie2kolob » Oct 25 2016 9:08pm

Thanks for all the info! It looks like it would be best to get a BBSHD if I plan to go this way.
"The only good bike is an electric bike." -- Thomas Edison

"Well behaved cyclists rarely make history." -- Marilyn Monroe or was it Lance Armstrong

"Two things are infinite. Cycling and human stupidity... and I'm not sure about cycling." -- Albert Einstein

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Oct 25 2016 11:45pm

Got PAS working with the CA very smooth and fully adjustable. This applies to the Grin Controller and the Sinewave, however that controller has a effective flux weakening as well

Flux weakening ensures a very high motor RPM, literally 23mph in the Granny Gear.





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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by Alex07 » Oct 26 2016 5:03am

So from the video i can see the full throttle no load power consumption with the wheel off the ground is about 1000w at 72v with the FOC phaserunner ? what gear was that ?

Out of interest what is it with this same test at stock 48v ?

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Oct 26 2016 9:07am

Alex07 wrote:So from the video i can see the full throttle no load power consumption with the wheel off the ground is about 1000w at 72v with the FOC phaserunner ? what gear was that ?

Out of interest what is it with this same test at stock 48v ?
1000W at full throttle is because of field weakening which forces the motor to run at a higher RPM, with flux weakening disabled it pulls about 110W no load but less RPMs of course. I will be doing tests on 48V today stay tuned.

And yes that's 20mph+ on 72V granny gear.
I have PAS limited to 1000W and it doesn't kick in until you pedal past 40RPM at the crank.

Again PAS is fully programmable to your liking and on the fly via the Cycle Analyst.
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by cal3thousand » Oct 26 2016 6:52pm

I had very strong inkling that the Phaserunner would be tits on the BBSHD. Now that you've confirmed it, I'll have to get one for my Edgerunner. Good stuff, Alan!
Get a Cycle Analyst and a Multimeter, you're still a noob if you don't have at least one of each.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Oct 28 2016 2:43pm

E.R.T. Sinewave Controllers are ready, I will have sexy black cases coming soon.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by TorEddy » Oct 28 2016 5:04pm

Heat shrink tubing instead of zip ties FTW!!

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Oct 28 2016 6:12pm

TorEddy wrote:Heat shrink tubing instead of zip ties FTW!!
You know it!
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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by evolutiongts » Nov 05 2016 3:42am

BBSHD with Grin Phase Runner Kits is here! Plug and Play setup, pre-tuned.

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Re: Ultimate BBSHD Now on 88V bring it on the powerrrr!

Post by TorEddy » Nov 05 2016 3:56am

WOW Alan...!
This is great!
Was originally thinking of the Adaptto mini-e, but that might quickly change. Just too bad the CA3 is so old school.

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