LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by methods » Mar 03, 2009 6:01 pm

Lol... It is up to interpretation.
I think Miles coined the term and Gary passed it on.

You would definitely qualify. . .

So 3lbs per hp eh?
Well... What about durability?
I dont think you would want to take that recumbent where I take my stink :mrgreen:
(or maybe you would...)
The stink is a battle tank. weighs a ton! I bet lukes bike will too.

Well, if power to weight is the name of the game I have a 10spd frame in my garage that I would be more than happy to build with
I can bust out the 40C lipo's and ditch the seat for weight savings
(but leave the post in of course) :twisted:

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by recumpence » Mar 03, 2009 6:16 pm

Nope, not the recumbent. I have a monster build I am in the middle of right now. 10kw of twin motored LiPo powered insanity.

That is part of the reason I am watching Luke's build with interest.

I am pushing for 35 pounds. 40 would be acceptable, though. :mrgreen:

I want bling too.

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by Doctorbass » Mar 03, 2009 6:17 pm

recumpence wrote:So, are we looking at power to weight ratio?

What qualifies a person to be included in the Testosterone club?

I am thinking an all up bike weight of 3 pounds per horsepower should be a prerequisite? :mrgreen:

Matt

Are you thinking about that? :twisted: 81W per kg for the total setup weight 229.1lbs bike + me and 90 x A123 cells
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 03, 2009 6:22 pm

LOL.

You're racing if you want to or not. You should fly out to the slow boat from China and hijack your stuff if you want an advantage in the race :)

I was definately thinking that Matt should also be a testy-twin. You guys are going to love my cooling setup. I will be able to easily remove 2kw of heat continously from the motors. Let's hope that the efficiency is good enough that we will never come close to taxing the cooling setup.

My bike isn't going to be heavy Methy! Both motors and controllers and brackets and all the drive parts are well under 20lbs. I will get exact weights for total, front weight, and rear weight soon enough. I'm thinking of mounting the batteries up far in the front, maybe off the front tripple clamp setup to try to even the weight out for a balanced feel off road.

I got the chain cut to length and master-linked, and I've been putting some hard stress on things to see how much deflection I get. The answer is pretty much zero. The first bracket was elegant, but flexed under extreme loads. This bracket setup will tear the hub out of the wheel before it flexes.

PS: Methy, PM me your stupid address and I will send you whatever HID stuff you want. I have a feeling it might not get there if I just write "Methy" in CA on the box and send it on it's way.
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 03, 2009 6:24 pm

Dr. Bass, you get an automatic "IN" on the testy club, just for findnig a way to carry 10,000 cells with you everywhere you go, and current pumping that poor hub motor harder than a cheap hooker.
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by Miles » Mar 03, 2009 6:42 pm

You guys are a hoot :)

The "Muscle-bike TT" (Testosterone Trophy) race....?

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by recumpence » Mar 03, 2009 6:47 pm

Doctorbass wrote:
recumpence wrote:So, are we looking at power to weight ratio?

What qualifies a person to be included in the Testosterone club?

I am thinking an all up bike weight of 3 pounds per horsepower should be a prerequisite? :mrgreen:

Matt

Are you thinking about that? :twisted: 81W per kg for the total setup weight 229.1lbs bike + me and 90 x A123 cells
Hmm, not bad. I am looking at 90 watts per KG me and bike (3 pounds per horsepower, bike only).

Luke will be leaving us both in his dust, though. I am thinking he is somewhere around 110 to 120 watts per KG.

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by Doctorbass » Mar 03, 2009 7:05 pm

recumpence wrote:
Doctorbass wrote:
recumpence wrote:So, are we looking at power to weight ratio?

What qualifies a person to be included in the Testosterone club?

I am thinking an all up bike weight of 3 pounds per horsepower should be a prerequisite? :mrgreen:

Matt

Are you thinking about that? :twisted: 81W per kg for the total setup weight 229.1lbs bike + me and 90 x A123 cells
Hmm, not bad. I am looking at 90 watts per KG me and bike (3 pounds per horsepower, bike only).

Luke will be leaving us both in his dust, though. I am thinking he is somewhere around 110 to 120 watts per KG.

Matt
I should ghave mentionned torque at low speed too.. combined with 81W per kg!! lol... 170lbs of trust from a dead start and still holding 95lbs trust at 50kmh!! :mrgreen:


But.. we can still assume averything here.. but the real proof is to be demonstrated on a 1/4 mile lane! :twisted:

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by methods » Mar 03, 2009 7:07 pm

Well I can see that I am being outdone before I have even done anything.

Matt, please make 2 of whatever it is that you are making for your bike :mrgreen:
Let me know what motors you mount on yours so that I can order a pair that are just ever so slightly larger.

I guess I can leapfrog from my Cyclone learning curve right into the dual motor setup.
do you have a thread going where I can pirate all your ideas?

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 03, 2009 7:46 pm

Now you've got the spirit back Methy! LOL


The way I designed my bike, It's actaully very adaptable to mount a sprocket on the disk brake mount and use two additional motors. I'm not opposed to doing anything it takes to win.

But, first I'm excited to get the chance to see how she runs with just a pair of motors. I took my elaborate bracket all back apart, and pressed out all the bearings and bushings, and it's pre-heating in the oven now to 400F to prep it for the final welding.

Then it's just a simple matter of assembly, and swapping from my non-locking hardware used in the building phase to the locking hardware. Then I gotta wire it all up, which I don't see taking more than a few hours with my trusty iron.

She is getting a mix of 4awg and 8awg wire, with very slick 6mm round connectors and doubled up Deans ultra connectors. I still need to remove the pot in the servo tester and wire up the magura throttle as well. That's all chicken-feed stuff though. The meat and potatos of the project will be finished in a few hours of welding! Yipee!!

It's going to be akward welding though, as i run a 1/8th inch drill bit deep into my thumb at high speed... The same thumb i use for my filler rod feed when TIG'ing... Do'h!
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by GGoodrum » Mar 03, 2009 7:50 pm

You better add D to your little "club" as well. Pretty soon we're going to have to get the Octamom to look after you boys... :mrgreen:

Hmm... Testosterone and Lithium-Cobalt... probably not a good "mix". :roll:

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 03, 2009 7:58 pm

Add a "D"? Maybe I'm just high on welding fumes, but I can't figure out what you mean.

Testosterone and LiCo sounds like a fantastic mix to me :) If my bike doesn't perform as it should, I'm going to detonate the batteries on it :)

lol
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by Miles » Mar 03, 2009 8:09 pm

liveforphysics wrote:Add a "D"? Maybe I'm just high on welding fumes, but I can't figure out what you mean.
"D" = Deecanio

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by methods » Mar 03, 2009 8:54 pm

If you haven't already luke, you need to check out his build thread.
Sets an entirely new standard for build quality.
It was his bike that forced me to switch over to a downhill style

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... ona+stinky

Here is a section with a lot of pictures:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/vi ... &start=540

-methods
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by recumpence » Mar 03, 2009 9:54 pm

Yup, "D" has quite the project bike going, there. :D

My thought is this;

A decent dirtbike is, what, 35hp? A liter class sportbike is 100+hp and pushing 10 grand. So, what we are talking about here is cheapo, wimpy, uninspiring e-bikes in comparison. Now, that being said, there is something to be said for a power to weight ratio (bike without rider) of a wicked super car and approaching GP bike standards. And, an e-bike is so light (brushless/lipo bike) that you almost cannot feel the bike under you. That is what I like! Also, my latest build is about 3 grand worth of bling. That is alot for a bike, but barely touches a cheap scooter.

Now, I figure, I am building the highest technology, highly tweaked bike I can that should be good for over 50mph with 12hp on tap, and it is costing me the price of a freakin 50cc scooter.

Hmm, you do the math......... :mrgreen:

That is what I like about e-bikes.

Also, that is what we have in common.

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by deecanio » Mar 04, 2009 6:43 am

Hey Guys,

no, don't add me to your crazy club :lol: - i like a little more power than average but you guys are going the whole nine yards :twisted: electrocross bikes and some, tbh i think my "measly" 5kw is plenty for me, i'm just a novice rider.
I can't wait to see your bikes come good, they will seriously be awesome performers.
Key things mentioned in the previous posts is Power to weight - you guys are quoting some really good weights for the power your going to run, i think the stinker will be 50lbs all in which is reasonably light for ebikes but sub 40lbs with MORE power is really going to be a crotch rocket!!!!
I'm really excited at the prospect of this seasons videos - the rc kit really has opened up all sorts of possibilities!!
i must admit although i look at most builds on the forum its the off road stuff that floats my boat so all these builds are high on my list to watch, that said i'm also interested in safes #3 bike, poor safe, he gets a lot of stick but i really dig his road racer with the fibreglass fairing.If i ever build another bike for myself i will take a long look at whats available for conversion in this style, i dont want to go the whole hog and convert a motorcycle (although love steves prilly) but i would love to have a crack at a faired road racer - 5kw and say 30lbs? :mrgreen:


Cheers,

D
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by AussieJester » Mar 04, 2009 8:33 am

deecanio wrote:Hey Guys,

no, don't add me to your crazy club :lol:
::pokes:: D...go on you know you want to deecanio :: winkz:: haveMr R whipz up a whizz bang quadruple RC motor machined pr0n drive pick up 27 lipo packs a big back pack to put them get some life insurance add me as your beneficiary and you set to join these two crazy Northerners :-P

I'm keen too see this LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build go thats for sure, can't click the link fast enough when i get an email of a reply on the thread LoL... i wont be at all surprised if we see some nice video action of them chasing each other around like madmen either HAHA just has to end badly don't it...skin loss, broken bones, burns either way be freakin good watch HAHAA

Seriously though, Look forward to next update Luke best of luck with the continued fab work mate :-)

KiM

Apprentice Gangsta 8)

p.s D you can follow safes build here :-)
Last edited by AussieJester on Mar 04, 2009 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by recumpence » Mar 04, 2009 8:35 am

C'mon, Man, let's get this bike going!

Use the force Luke! :wink: :mrgreen:

Matt
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by deecanio » Mar 04, 2009 8:44 am

LOL :lol:

oh ok Kim i'll join :)
but it will have to wait until the next build (shhhhhhhhhh) :twisted: i think Rastamax will be the newest member with his sweet Dh'er.
with Luke going like a madman and Methy not far behind i'm sure the data on what breaks when will be invaluble :mrgreen:
i cannot wait to see the "monster" come to life, dammit Luke take some time off work sick and push for the finish :twisted:

And don't think we arent keeping on eye on you Mr S :wink: although i'm looking forward to seeing the pk ripper in action i'm more inclined to wait for the monster your working on behind the pk smokescreen :lol:


Cheers,

D
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 05, 2009 2:28 am

By demand, I busted the camera out again today.

This is how the motors are positioned, and how the chain wraps:

Image

When I did the welding, I had just drilled a 1/8th hole down deep into the thumb that I use for my filler rod feed when TIG welding. This is the most critical part to have good dexterity in to make good TIG welds... So, I ended up just welding some of the difficult inside areas with the spool-gun. It makes a fine weld if you set it up and dial everything in correctly, but it leaves nasty splatter on your project. I started grinding off the splatter to clean up the project, and then OOPS! I ground a spot in my finger in a place that caused it to squirt a little stream of blood when my heart beat. Same hand that I drilled the thumb of yesterday...

Image


But, I decided it was just a flesh wound, and continued working. Here is a happy thumbs up for you guys, with a hint of what my bracket looks like in the background :)

Image


Then the blood running into the grinder motor shocked the piss out of me, almost literally. So I decided I needed to do something about the blood.

So, a few drops of superglue later, and some bandaids also super glued in place, and I was back to good-as-new.

I drilled the sprockets and mounted set screws in them, and drilled dimples in the shaft that align with the set screw hole when fully tight. It will all be loc-tite'd on final assembly.

Image

So, here is my cooling solution for the motors:

This one for the bottom,
Image

This one for the top,
Image


With a delta-T in a range that is safe for the motors, these CPU heatsink/fan assemblys can reject over 1KW of heat each continously. Motors get thermal epoxied and tightly bolted to the aluminum plate, and the sinks get thermal epoxied and tightly bolted to the plate about an inch away. Those motors aren't going to be able to get hot.

Superglue is so awesome. It's like having a miricle heal you in 30 seconds. Run a drill deep into your thumb, superglue it closed, POOF! healed. Grind into an artery that wont stop bleeding, wash it up and squeeze enugh super glue into it and it's healed. Super glue and blood actually cure very well together and make "super-scabs".



You can see it's not bolted into place in this picture, just loosely resting on the bike, but this gives you a rough idea of what the bracket will look like in place.

Image

Enjoy!
Best Wishes,
-Luke
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by methods » Mar 05, 2009 2:47 am

I hate you.

There is no way I am going to be able to build anything even remotely as bad-ass as that luke. . .
I have seen a lot of your projects but this one takes the bad-ass cake in my eyes.
Over the top, as promised :wink:

I concede. You win.
Even if that pile of tig welded crap doesn't work it is still cooler that what I have planned :oops:

As far as the little cuts go, phfffft.... weak... I didnt even see any meat on the ground. :roll:

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 05, 2009 3:19 am

Methy. I don't know what to say. First off, thank you for your kind words, they do mean a lot to me. Secondly, I think the married life is softening you up WAY too much. The Methy I know would be frantically on the phone ordering up a pair of 20kw Agni-motors, and get to work attaching them with plumbers tape, superglue, silly putty, and hope. The Methy I know would also manage to make it work, not for any useful amount of time, but you would make it work.

As far as projects go, I think I put much more work into building these little guys entirely from scratch:

Image

And my totally scratch built lighting setup:

Image

Or my scratch built wave simulation system:
Image

However, none of these things do wheelies and pretend to be a bicycle while I haul ass through bike trails on them, and that's gotta count for something.
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by AussieJester » Mar 05, 2009 3:39 am

methods wrote:

As far as the little cuts go, phfffft.... weak... I didnt even see any meat on the ground. :roll:

-methods
ROFLMAO your a hard man Methods, you have to admit though the 'claret' in the pics does add some
colour ::cough:: color (for you "non-english" speakin' yanks and northerners :-P )

And whats this i hear "I concede. You win." seriously WTF Patrick :-| VERY UN-Gangsta-like of you buddy...i'm getting
worried mate i seriously amz FIRST you you start this silly talk about building a REVERSE trike :-| NOW
you concede defeat BEFORE trying to match Luke!!1111oneoneone ..Time to get SERIOUS my friend...that monstrous
archaic hub motor you and so many here idolize so much NEEDS to be lost first up, ITS ONE SPEED FFS :-| THEN you need to have some serious discussions with Mr Recumpence SIR about fabrication of quadruple motor rc drive unit :: wink:: You can't be intimidated by Luke ANY LONGER!!!1111 ...the time is NOW to STEP UP and lose the frock -n- toughen the frock up buddy...you do realize all this jibber-jabber-verbal diarrhoea is to coax you both on to compete THUS raising the standards and HOPEFULLY hehehe HOPEFULLY above all...get some freakin INSANE video footage...now if we can just arrange a cheap air flight for the 'D' man to come 'compete' against you two lunatics it will be a show that NOBODY will wanna miss :: hiccup :: back to ma beer enough rambling LoL...

Hope the hand heals quick there Luke...as you know bones heal and chicks dig scars so no biggy LoL...

P.S when we seeing the first vids of the bike in action mate?

KiM

Wannabee Gangsta 8)

* just jokes meth you do a fiiiiine job buddy

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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 05, 2009 4:03 am

Thank you Kim. You could be a poet. You said what needed to be said, and nobody could have done a better job.

Your talk is inspiring me to rally and make something to crush this build, and that's strange for a couple reasons. 1. It's my own build. 2. It's never even moved yet and now I'm all ready want to re-do it to use 4 of the giant motors CNCguy is building.
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Re: LiPoly powered 18HP Twin Motor Brushless MONSTER build!

Post by AussieJester » Mar 05, 2009 4:41 am

liveforphysics wrote: It's never even moved yet and now I'm all ready want to re-do it to use 4 of the giant motors CNCguy is building.

NOW SEEE Meth!!! ^^^^ that right there is the shit!!!111oneoneone...OBVIOUSLY now talks with Mr R must be moved to a 6 motored RC drive unit Patrick hehehee... Luke mate...i shall do ma best to encourage Patrick and DISCOURAGE this new "nancy boy" attitude he has taken on hehehee I shit you not though Luke AND Patrick...when the $$$ build up i will be in some seruous discussion with the GOD of Metal (Recumpence) about a dual drive unit for my trike ;-) If i can at least get within in a whisker of Docs 7ish second 100meter run ill be impressed :-)

Best of luck to the both of you, your boith as nuts as one another i freakin love it hehehee

OK...my job seems to be done here...for now LoL...im off to the pub for some wiminez and beerz ;-)

KiM

Apprentice Gangsta 8)

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