Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

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Overclocker   10 kW

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Overclocker » Oct 30 2016 9:08am

saucisse wrote:It is aluminum. My local bike shop intalled it like 2 or 3 years ago and its been great since then and so far it is a torq monster with no issue. I'll try to get a picture of the other side showing which brand/model it is.

Image

thanks. here's mine on the pedal bike. i'm just a bit reluctant to put it on an ebike because it's aluminum which might not be strong enough

but perhaps i'm underestimating the strength of 7075 alu. it's supposed to be stronger than mild steel

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Joe T. » Oct 30 2016 9:26am

I put a BBSHD on a Trek bike and I had some chain drops in low gear when not under much load. I built a chain guide with a plastic shoe to keep the chain from dropping and it solved everything. It clamped around the frame where the front derailleur would be.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by robocam » Oct 31 2016 11:24pm

Some noname sprockets may not be able to handle a mid drive. Take a look at this about 1/4 of the way down the page.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=73027

I have a Wolftooth 42, and it has handled my Cyclone 3000 to my surprise, so it should have no problem with the BBSHD.

Also, it is my understanding that steel is significantly stronger than aluminum. Where did you read that 7075 is stronger than mild steel?
Overclocker wrote:...i'm just a bit reluctant to put it on an ebike because it's aluminum which might not be strong enough

but perhaps i'm underestimating the strength of 7075 alu. it's supposed to be stronger than mild steel

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by robocam » Oct 31 2016 11:25pm

What chainring are you using? Could you post a picture of your solution?
Joe T. wrote:I put a BBSHD on a Trek bike and I had some chain drops in low gear when not under much load. I built a chain guide with a plastic shoe to keep the chain from dropping and it solved everything. It clamped around the frame where the front derailleur would be.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by TorEddy » Nov 01 2016 12:08pm

I'm hoping this will fix my chainline problem:
http://www.kindernay.com/

Image

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Overclocker » Nov 01 2016 12:32pm

robocam wrote:Some noname sprockets may not be able to handle a mid drive. Take a look at this about 1/4 of the way down the page.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=73027

I have a Wolftooth 42, and it has handled my Cyclone 3000 to my surprise, so it should have no problem with the BBSHD.

Also, it is my understanding that steel is significantly stronger than aluminum. Where did you read that 7075 is stronger than mild steel?

i've seen a chart of tensile strength somewhere. but it's mild steel vs one of the best aluminum alloys

of course the best steels are way stronger than the best alu

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Mündawg » Nov 03 2016 7:20pm

Overclocker wrote:
Image

here's mine. granny was brought outboard 2 clicks. chainline pretty good now. get a low-end cassette without spiders
Is there a video on how to do that? What tools are needed?I am thinking i will have to do this for my BBSHD commuter.
I am just wandering around, wondering where everybody is...
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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Overclocker » Nov 04 2016 12:13pm

Mündawg wrote:
Overclocker wrote:
Image

here's mine. granny was brought outboard 2 clicks. chainline pretty good now. get a low-end cassette without spiders
Is there a video on how to do that? What tools are needed?I am thinking i will have to do this for my BBSHD commuter.
super easy to do. the cassettes are riveted together so you just need to drill or dremel the rivets. it's good to have a big pile of loose sprockets so you can mix and match

then it's just a matter of setting the limit screws on the derailleur

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Joe T. » Nov 04 2016 8:41pm

[quote="robocam"]What chainring are you using? Could you post a picture of your solution?
[\quote]

It came with a 48T. We switched it to a 42T Bling ring from Luna. The bike is gone at this time so no picture. I could post the CAD file but I don't have it on this computer.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by sather » Nov 05 2016 6:39am

A more expensive alternative to tearing apart a cheap cassette:
Miche cassettes use individual cogs and spacers which allow for easy customization of ratios
https://www.universalcycles.com/shoppin ... egory=2620

You can buy individual first position, middle and last position cogs from Miche.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shoppin ... egory=1569
https://www.universalcycles.com/shoppin ... egory=1569
https://www.universalcycles.com/shoppin ... egory=1569

They also have 8 and 9 speed cogs.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Ykick » Nov 06 2016 10:42am

Thanks again Overclocker for the great tip!

‘Found a nice cheap cassette which was (no rivets) configurable - http://www.ebay.com/itm/371250254879?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

Spanning 14t-32t across 4 cogs all with a very reasonable chain line. Adjusted travel stops and good to go....
image1.JPG
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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by MaxPowers » Nov 13 2016 8:20am

Just installed my first bbshd. 3rd gear is ideal. My cassette is rivited and I font want to cut into it without having spare parts on hand. Any suggestions for a cassette to buy for an 8 speed? If I buy a 9 speed cassette and leave out one of the cogs, will it fit? Any suggestions preferbly from amazon?

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by MaxPowers » Dec 18 2016 4:25am

Ordered a new 8 speed cassett from amazon but it is riveted. I tried researching how to remove the rivets with no luck. I tried drilling it out but broke my drill bit. Any suggestions?

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Marko2 » Dec 18 2016 9:39am

File the ends of the rivets , a small grinding wheel in a drill works well

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Ykick » Dec 18 2016 10:28am

Max, eBay no good? What country are you located?

That link I posted still has stock or just buy directly from Bikewagon but you might not get free shipping?

http://www.bikewagon.com/part/cassettes ... swodiH4DDw

Riveted cassettes would make my head hurt and that's why I bothered to post the 8 spd cassette I found that can be re-configured in any desired combination of gearing.

btw, there's a small torx head screw holding the cassette I posted together for shipping. Not to be mistaken for a rivet.
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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by robocam » Feb 24 2017 3:09am

I'm now considering making my own cassette so that it can work with a wider chainline (BBSHD with a 30T Mighty Mini). However, I'd like it to work with the OneUp 50T Shark sprocket.

https://www.oneupcomponents.com/product ... t-18t-1x11

I wonder if it would work in a 10 speed system as long as I use the M8000 derailleur with OneUp's special cage. I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't as long as I get the 50T the right distance from the rest of the cassette.

The reason I'm considering a 10-speed system is because I'm not aware of any 11-speed cassette that doesn't use spiders. Spiders would prevent me from being able to remove certain cogs.

Alternatively, I could use an 11-speed cassette and relocate the 2 smallest cogs to the back. Since I'm using this on the trails, I may not miss the 11 and 13T cogs. Is this possible to relocate those 2 smallest cogs to behind the granny?

Maybe I'll just do this to the Shimano 11-46. It would save me the cost of the OneUp parts.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Overclocker » Feb 24 2017 5:47am

Image

Image

my current setup. 42t w/ a few spacers behind it to bring the whole stack outboard. w/ a 32t front chainring it already climbs 99% of the trails i need to climb. bbs02. with bbshd and 30t you might not even need 50t

you're right the 11t isn't needed, and tends to skip anyway due to low # of engaged teeth. the problem is the 11t has the micro-teeth on its face needed to lock the lockring, so it has to be there. but i think i have a solution. will post it soon

oh btw deore 2017 will have 11-42t:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/02/21/sh ... us-groups/

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by robocam » Feb 24 2017 4:40pm

The reason I want the 50T is because I want to make my bike have the same gear ratios as the Specialized Enduro for when I want to pedal only. The Enduro has a 30T going to a 10-50 cassette.

Aren't those micro teeth only for the purpose of retention? I could use threadlocker if I have problems with the lockring loosening. But I'm curious about your solution as well.

Thanks for the link. That's cool that the Deore is getting a 10-speed 11-42, but I wonder if it will use spiders. I'm using a Wolftooth 42 on my XT cassette, so it's about time that Shimano offered an 11-42 for their 10-speed system. Now I await an 11-50 for their XT line.

I've gone ahead and ordered the 30T Mighty Mini to see how it behaves on my bike. Hopefully, moving it out 1 or 2 cogs will keep it from jumping. It'd be nice if it would run smoothly with the whacked-out chainline but somehow I don't think that will be the case.
Overclocker wrote:...it already climbs 99% of the trails i need to climb. bbs02. with bbshd and 30t you might not even need 50t

you're right the 11t isn't needed, and tends to skip anyway due to low # of engaged teeth. the problem is the 11t has the micro-teeth on its face needed to lock the lockring, so it has to be there. but i think i have a solution. will post it soon

oh btw deore 2017 will have 11-42t:

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/02/21/sh ... us-groups/

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Feb 24 2017 5:30pm

robocam wrote:I've gone ahead and ordered the 30T Mighty Mini to see how it behaves on my bike. Hopefully, moving it out 1 or 2 cogs will keep it from jumping. It'd be nice if it would run smoothly with the whacked-out chainline but somehow I don't think that will be the case.
The chain line will be even more whacked out with the Mighty Mini because it has less offset then the stock chain ring or Luna's upgraded 42T chain ring, meaning the chain will move further out away from the bottom bracket. I'm currently running my BBSHD with mighty mini as a 2 speed. I have a 34T in the rear and a twenty something - maybe a 24T. The jump from 34T to 24T is too much for my old XT derailleur so now it's actually a single speed. Running at 72 volts, and my top speed now is only about 17MPH. I did just get a SunRace 11-42, and I plan on using only the top 3 gears which is 42,38,32. That will be a little bit better. I may eventually get the Phaserunner and see what kind of top speed I can get on the 42 or 38 T and decide on what two gears I'll use.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 25 2017 11:40am

And now you know why IGHs are becoming popular for use with the BBSHD. Even if the chainline is off a bit at least you don't have to ever move it from one sprocket to another.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by StinkyGoalieGuy » Feb 25 2017 12:30pm

WoodlandHills wrote:And now you know why IGHs are becoming popular for use with the BBSHD. Even if the chainline is off a bit at least you don't have to ever move it from one sprocket to another.
Yup. I had an N171 for a while and had a perfect chain line and perfect "shifting". But I didn't like the weight and I had to make custom torque plates, and carry around wrenches in case I needed to remove the rear wheel to change a flat. Maybe I'll try one of the 3speed IGHs. That would at least help with the weight problem.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by robocam » Feb 25 2017 5:18pm

Well, I'm not having any problems with my Luna Eclipse going to an 11-42, and that's with the BBSHD shifted out about 8mm from my 68mm bottom bracket (for the Eclipse to clear the chainstay). I've come to realize that narrow-wide chainrings do an amazing job of keeping the chain on because they don't allow the chain to move sideways. On a regular chainring, once the wide area of a chain enters a tooth, the following link may sit on top of the next tooth causing the chain to fall off. A narrow-wide profile doesn't allow nearly as much side-to-side movement, so a chain can approach it at quite a slant and still not fall off. The chainring and sprockets may wear quite a bit faster though.

What are some popular IGHs that people use with the BBSHD, and what are their gear ranges? Do any come in at around 5:1? Having an IGH might be nice because it wouldn't skip like it does in the smaller cogs of a cassette. Right now, skipping prevents me from being able to pedal along hard in the last 2 or 3 cogs.
WoodlandHills wrote:And now you know why IGHs are becoming popular for use with the BBSHD. Even if the chainline is off a bit at least you don't have to ever move it from one sprocket to another.

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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by WoodlandHills » Feb 25 2017 5:58pm

I'm not sure what 5:1 means, but the Nexus3 has a direct drive 2nd gear with first being -25% and third being +25%. The Sturmey Archer 3-speeds are the same AFAIK. I ran their new 5-speed for a while which is a DD third gear with the other steps the standard +or- 25%, I liked it, but found that the shifter tang on the hub was vulnerable to damage during a derail. My new build has an SA 3-speed built for fat bikes and has very good chain alignment with a Ruff Cycles 20mm offset cog, but I've not put power to it yet.

I don't pedal beyond moving my feet to activate the PAS so all my riding is under power and 99% is off-road on dirt. I've logged about 1200 miles on two bikes with Nexus3's in the last year so I don't have much mileage to speak of and can't really say how long they will last. They are still going strong and are still silent.......

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I'm havin' a great time with the Luna Mighty-Mini 30T chainr

Post by robocam » Apr 02 2017 12:15am

I've been waiting to make this post because I wanted to put some miles on my 30T Mighty-Mini first, and I'm thrilled to report that all the chainline issues that I was worried about are all wiped away. Look at that crazy chainline! I'm running a KMC 10.93 chain to a 10-speed Shimano XT 11-36T cassette with a 42T Wolftooth expander cog.

Image

I am now a firm believer in narrow-wide chainrings. They are amazing at guiding a chain onto the teeth even at crazy angles! And look at how many spacers I used to push the BBSHD out! My bottom bracket is 68mm.

Image

Those spacers were necessary for the 42T Luna Eclipse to clear the chainstay. So does it work? Yes! At first, it made a little noise in the first two larger cogs and skipped a little under load, but after a few miles, it's all quiet and smooth now. Now here's the bad part. Look at all those aluminum shavings from the chainring! I wish a steel version was available. It would last a lot longer and be a lot stronger. I've seen people break teeth on these things. Please Luna, make a steel version someday =)

Image

For now, this will do. I'm thrilled that I can use this chainring because I wanted a 1x setup. I've purchased a 50T OneUp Shark extender cog that I will install very soon (I'm going to an 11-speed setup).
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Re: Getting the best chainline with the bbshd

Post by Ykick » Apr 02 2017 9:30am

Holy cow Robo that is a crazy chainline but if it works for you, rock on!

I’m still very pleased using 3 wide range cogs and hardly any angle to the chain.
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