The New Tongsheng TSDZ3 - anyone have experience?

Hi All,

About a year ago, someone started a new thread here on the TSDZ2 and it's a fascinating thread with some 375+ comments. I dare say, in my somewhat limited exposure to it, that THIS GROUP has created what one might call "the community of TSDZ2 owners", worldwide. I read it all, I'm convinced, great product, ready to buy one! And I'm MORE than impressed - stunned really - at the way people have come together to answer each others' questions.

BUT, just as I'm getting ready to buy, the manufacturer apparently has in recent days now released a new version, the TSDZ3, and I'm a little unsure which I should go for. So, maybe we can start a NEW thread, regarding the TSDZ3 to rival the old one on the earlier version!

For what it's worth, (the end of) that thread is here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=79788&start=375

I would dearly love to hear from anyone who has any experience at all with the new system. Also, I haven't found much info on the web about it, either, only two references. Here we see it in no better voltage or wattage than the earlier unit - and the vendor, PSWPower, doesn't seem to have any other versions of it:

http://www.pswpower.com/peng/iview.asp?KeyID=dtpic-2015-CP-2H3X.3SVEX

...While Biktrix advertises it as a "48V, 53v", "500W / 700W" product:

https://www.biktrix.com/products/tongsheng-tsdz2-torque-sensored-diy-ebike-mid-$

...And those were the ONLY two ads I found for it - in fact, the only data at all anywhere, except in the tail end of the above cited conversation here.

As an aside, I've searched reasonably hard but have never yet found the Tongsheng corporate web site - who doesn't have one these days? The company's proper name is, "Suzhou Industrial Park Tongsheng Bicycle Co. Ltd.". I found several different addresses for them, so I don't have faith that any are correct. One site claims their phone number is: 86-51265973973. Of course, not speaking any dialect of Chinese, I haven't called! There's an interesting web page about them here:

http://bikeparts.company.weiku.com/product/

I find it rather amazing I can't find their corporate web site, but maybe someone who owns one of their products got their web address in some documentation?

Regards,
RT

When I first looked, I'm pretty sure that ONE of the ONLY two ads I found for the TDSZ3 had suggestive imagery that told me it could be mounted as the TSDZ2 mounts - as a "bottom bracket" mount. However, that site has now been updated and so now BOTH of the only two ads I've seen seem to show it's only for a weld-in mount.

Frankly, I think that's the dumbest idea they've got going. I cannot imagine there's anywhere near the size market for that! ... And certainly I for one am not interested in that kind of product. ... I guess an email to the company is in order! So, I wrote them this letter:

---
Subject: Question about TSDZ3

Hello,

I am confused about your new TSDZ3 product; is it only available as a weld-in product or do you offer it as a Bottom-Bracket system as well? It might be worth asking; if it is weld-in-only today, are you planning to make it a bolt-in product, similar to the TSDZ2?

If it's a weld-in-only system, this is very puzzling because many of us have heard you were working on a new system, but thought it would be mounting to existing bikes without modifying the frame. To a great many of us, there is a very long list of reasons why that is something we will not do - including me! Chief among these reasons are: cost, risk, and resale value. Additionally, the ability to move an electric unit from one bicycle to another is a big plus which is lost. And it seems puzzling because the market for a weld-in kit must be much smaller.

If weld-in-only, can you please share why you have made this choice?

Thank you,

----

I will post their reply, if any, here...

I'm hoping for more data very soon as well as a motor to beat on.

This looks good, but why can't we get some ISIS bottom brackets at least! At this wattage, I'd like a throttle also - I don't need to be motivated to pedal harder :lol: Price is great though $450 with shipping, nice!

Isn't v3 like the Bafang max drive and require a specific frame? The new 48v v2 is the 68mm BB type?

The only link I found was one from Biktrix. I don't need any more bikes or motors at this point, but someone that's interested should contact them and find out what is going on with this kit.
The link posted above now shows 404 error.
Here's the new link and I'll post some pics.
https://www.biktrix.com/products/tongsheng-tsdz2-torque-sensored-diy-ebike-mid-motor

It's finally here: the 48V 500W(nominal) 700W(peak) Tongsheng torque sensored mid motor.

What makes this little motor incredible?

30% lighter than a Bafang motor for almost the same power output
Built in torque and cadence sensor - this results in much smoother acceleration than any cadence sensored mid motor
Easy to install. Kit includes all installation hardware and tools
The motor has an extra support mount - resulting in a much more reliable install than a Bafang BBS motor
No throttle - this system is a pure pedelec; motivating you to pedal harder and go farther
80Nm of torque is almost twice as much as a hub motor and can help you climb up any hill in your way

Click to expand...

[youtube]DgweQ8rel_M[/youtube]

dirkdiggler said:

The only link I found was one from Biktrix. I don't need any more bikes or motors at this point, but someone that's interested should contact them and find out what is going on with this kit.
The link posted above now shows 404 error.
Here's the new link and I'll post some pics.
https://www.biktrix.com/products/tongsheng-tsdz2-torque-sensored-diy-ebike-mid-motor

It's finally here: the 48V 500W(nominal) 700W(peak) Tongsheng torque sensored mid motor.

What makes this little motor incredible?

30% lighter than a Bafang motor for almost the same power output
Built in torque and cadence sensor - this results in much smoother acceleration than any cadence sensored mid motor
Easy to install. Kit includes all installation hardware and tools
The motor has an extra support mount - resulting in a much more reliable install than a Bafang BBS motor
No throttle - this system is a pure pedelec; motivating you to pedal harder and go farther
80Nm of torque is almost twice as much as a hub motor and can help you climb up any hill in your way

Click to expand...

[youtube]DgweQ8rel_M[/youtube]

Click to expand...

DANGER Will Robinson!

Note here the URL says TSDZ2, but the page talks about TSDZ3. Meanwhile the video shows the TSDZ2... You can CLEARLY see at 1:10 that he's tightening the nut and the frame is unmodified. That's NOT a TSDZ3!

OR, if it is, well....

Out of courtesy, I decided to email the vendor cited above who had the TSDZ2 in the URL but DZ3 in the ad. And I got a prompt reply:

-------------------
Thanks for this.

I have updated our website to reflect the changes. This motor fits all
standard bike frames.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Cheers,
Roshan
-------------------

SO According To Roshan at Biktix, the DZ3 DOES fit normal bottom bracket frames! DARN, I would have ordered one!

Confusing, just ordered a pair, 36v 350w and 48v 500w, Nancy at Tongsheng calls the TSDZ 3 the framevspecific version. Could be a ESL problem.

I'm a TSDZ2 user from China, I just assembled a TSDZ road bike and it works well.
Also I agree that TSDZ2 is a great product.
Before order the motor, I did search on Tongshen website and saw TSDZ3 too.
It's similar to Bosch or Yamaha mid motor system which should be installed on special bike frame.
Also this motor cannot be purchased on TAOBAO in China.
So in my opinion, you can only order this product directly from the company and install TSDZ3 on the frame manufatured based on the layout company give to you.
I think for most of us it's more convenient and reasonable to buy TSDZ2 instead of TSDZ3 unless you are a bike manufacturer.

The 3 is the weld in, yeah

tomjasz said:

Confusing, just ordered a pair, 36v 350w and 48v 500w, Nancy at Tongsheng calls the TSDZ 3 the framevspecific version. Could be a ESL problem.

Click to expand...

Sounds like I need to talk to Nancy

I'm supoosedly in contact with a worker, but getting conflicting reports on the 48v18a...

Maybe I should try to contact them officially... Im not doing bulk, though

eyebyesickle said:

tomjasz said:

Confusing, just ordered a pair, 36v 350w and 48v 500w, Nancy at Tongsheng calls the TSDZ 3 the framevspecific version. Could be a ESL problem.

Click to expand...

Sounds like I need to talk to Nancy

I'm supoosedly in contact with a worker, but getting conflicting reports on the 48v18a...

Maybe I should try to contact them officially... Im not doing bulk, though

Click to expand...

48v due here tommorrow. DHL is fast, once we closed the deal. Nancy is easilt confused. She really wants to push a frame and the V3.

Cool. Yeah go straight to the source for the 48v18a... I think the middlemen get too confused also. Maybe some of the new workers might not even know it was available yet.

Let me know how it goes for ya! Gotta wonder how good Nancy is treatin ya on those $$ =) IF THATS HER REAL NAME

I looked and only found a few places selling them, all the older version at 15 amp. 36 volt version , not the newer B model that is 500 watts @ 48 volts and 700 watts @ 52 volts.

What is the link to the Source ( Tongsheng ) ?

Contact number ?

eyebyesickle said:

Cool. Yeah go straight to the source for the 48v18a... I think the middlemen get too confused also. Maybe some of the new workers might not even know it was available yet.

Let me know how it goes for ya! Gotta wonder how good Nancy is treatin ya on those $$ =) IF THATS HER REAL NAME

Click to expand...

ScooterMan101 said:

I looked and only found a few places selling them, all the older version at 15 amp. 36 volt version , not the newer B model that is 500 watts @ 48 volts and 700 watts @ 52 volts.

What is the link to the Source ( Tongsheng ) ?

Contact number ?

eyebyesickle said:

Cool. Yeah go straight to the source for the 48v18a... I think the middlemen get too confused also. Maybe some of the new workers might not even know it was available yet.

Let me know how it goes for ya! Gotta wonder how good Nancy is treatin ya on those $$ =) IF THATS HER REAL NAME

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

link to android app:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8ZJVw_3ibzkVERzb2ZsVEJGX2M/view?usp=drivesdk

website:

tsbicycle.net (sometimes have to load m.tsbicycle.net from phone to work)

Suzhou Industrial Park Tongsheng Bicycle Co.,Ltd
Address:Tongda Road 1875-8,Suzhou,215124,Jiangsu,China
Tel: +86-512-66980056
Fax: +86-512-65966187
Email: info@tsbicycle.net
 
German Office
Address: Strawinsky Str. 27b, D-90455, Nuremberg, Germany.
Hotline: 01805 161688
Tel: +49-912218827258
Email: office-germany@tsbicycle.net
 
Dutch Office
Address: Rozengaardseweg 21, 7001DN Doetinchem, The Netherlands.
Tel: +31 (0) 85 4898300

ScooterMan101 said:

I looked and only found a few places selling them, all the older version at 15 amp. 36 volt version , not the newer B model that is 500 watts @ 48 volts and 700 watts @ 52 volts.

Click to expand...

In my view THIS is the one to get - better features:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_1&products_id=1802

But, you might like this one:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_1&products_id=1780

Best prices, many people here bought from them. Quick delivery too, IF they have it in stock...

Dragging this thread into 2020, does anyone know of any off the shelf eMTB frames that will take a tsdz3 bolt in?

If not, does the tsdz3 come supplied with a weld-in plate, and is it aluminium or steel? I can work with either, just need to know.

RTIII said:

ScooterMan101 said:

I looked and only found a few places selling them, all the older version at 15 amp. 36 volt version , not the newer B model that is 500 watts @ 48 volts and 700 watts @ 52 volts.

Click to expand...

In my view THIS is the one to get - better features:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_1&products_id=1802

But, you might like this one:

http://auto-ebike.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=25_1&products_id=1780

Best prices, many people here bought from them. Quick delivery too, IF they have it in stock...

Click to expand...

I have the 750w 48v version with throttle. It's my fav combination.. maximum power and also throttle is fun to use it like a motor bike sometimes..
My bike charges from the sun using solar and mppt controller.

HughF said:

Dragging this thread into 2020, does anyone know of any off the shelf eMTB frames that will take a tsdz3 bolt in?

If not, does the tsdz3 come supplied with a weld-in plate, and is it aluminium or steel? I can work with either, just need to know.

Click to expand...

Best is to contact PSWPOWER and ask them.
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2015-cp-2h3x

I see it still uses the old style bottom bracket spindle like the TSDZ2, not the modern rigid Hollowtech type that every other integrated eBike motor uses (including Bafang Max). Not a fan of those flexy old things.

ElectricSprocket said:

HughF said:

Dragging this thread into 2020, does anyone know of any off the shelf eMTB frames that will take a tsdz3 bolt in?

If not, does the tsdz3 come supplied with a weld-in plate, and is it aluminium or steel? I can work with either, just need to know.

Click to expand...

Best is to contact PSWPOWER and ask them.
http://www.pswpower.com/ven.php?cargo.2015-cp-2h3x

I see it still uses the old style bottom bracket spindle like the TSDZ2, not the modern rigid Hollowtech type that every other integrated eBike motor uses (including Bafang Max). Not a fan of those flexy old things.

Click to expand...

Yeah, square taper bottom bracket in 2020, urghhh... Bafang ultra is a better way to go I think.

I have a bike with the tsdz3.

Tim's Ebike (post #23) uses the TSDZ3, his bike was purchased in Australia. In the USA I recently bought a 'commuter bike' named the 'Buzz Cerana' which also uses the TSDZ3. Tim did some motor repairs and he felt the TSDZ3 used many of the TSDZ2 common parts (with the important exception that the motor mounts to the bike with a shaped aluminum plate, which must be welded to the frame. Tim's information was a big plus for me since I can readily get parts if the motor breaks.

My Buzz bike seems slow with an 18mph top speed, it has sedate acceleration (on all assist settings), the bike uses a 6pin VLCD5 display.

Any thoughts on how to easily increase the speed and power of my Buzz Ebike? I have considered: (1) Changing to a bigger front crank gear (2) Keying in a bigger wheel size into the display. Any problems with those two ideas?

Other suggestions?

chembarreto said:

I have considered: (1) Changing to a bigger front crank gear (2) Keying in a bigger wheel size into the display. Any problems with those two ideas?

Click to expand...

I have the same e-MTB as Tim, or a newer 29" version. What size wheels are yours?
I put a bigger chainring on, and it cruises about 32km/hr (=20 mph or 54000 US furlongs per fortnight) once I disabled the 25km/h limit.
Good timing on the question: I've just put an electrical power meter on, tapping between battery and motor, so will test those two ideas.

So far noticed: it can be putting out plenty of power on a climb, say 600W electrical, but if I shift down to put in more leg-work, the motor power drops a lot. Not sure yet if this is a software issue, or badly designed gearing inside the motor.
You'd think a mid-drive would be designed to be efficient and powerful up to at least 80 rpm cadence, no?

The motor is there to get me up big hills, especially off-road, not because I'm too lazy to pedal on the flats, so I'm not too fussed. The bike is meant to be street-legal here, allowed on bike paths & trails. Which means a bicycle with assist, not a motorbike.

Still, it would be nice to be able to combine full pedal power with full electric power.

chembarreto said:

it has sedate acceleration

Click to expand...

How about climbing? Try shifting up, so you are only doing 30-40 rpm, but put plenty of weight in the pedals. Does the motor power increase?

... OK, I did some tests. Changing wheel size makes no difference (unless you have the 25km/h limiter on).
It's not about pedal torque either. Electrical power drops fast after 60 rpm, 1Hz on the cranks.
Which is not as bad as I thought. It felt like I was pedalling slower.
This could be a result of either hardware or software limits.

So yes, a bigger chainring should let you get a bit more speed.

edit: I googled Buzz Cerana, and it is a 7-speed 24". How fast were you expecting?
With small wheels and presumably a 14-28 freewheel (?), you'll need a huge chainring to hit over 20mph without exceeding 60rpm on the pedals.
Maybe consider upgrading the rear wheel to an 8 or 9-speed cassette model, if you can find one at a good price. Then you get 11T instead of 14T (I'm guessing) on the rear.