Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 03 2018 1:11pm

Hello Johne-bike,

Sounds like a neat area you get to live and ride in. Would like to see you post a video of where you ride when you get your bike in. At least some pics.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Johne-bike » Feb 04 2018 5:22am

Rix wrote:
Feb 03 2018 1:11pm
Hello Johne-bike,

Sounds like a neat area you get to live and ride in. Would like to see you post a video of where you ride when you get your bike in. At least some pics.
Hi Rix!

Thanks for your reply.. I feel so lucky about where I'm living too.. We have such personal freedom out in the Thai countryside, the weather is wonderful, the countryside is lovely, and as for the Thai ladies of the Isaan region... :!: :D

Honestly, I live amongst a very rural farming community, and there are well maintained hard packed and gravel farm trails for public access everywhere you look, and apart from the odd tractor, or wandering herd of buffalo, they are very quiet. The only slight downside of my neck of the woods is there isn't really any hills for a 100 kms in any direction.. :lol:

No one cares whether you've got 100w or 10,000w on your bike.. In fact the locals are fascinated to see an ebike, as all they know are Honda Wave 110's which is the standard Thai family transport! So, as much as I love my current 3000w Mxus Fatbike and find it completely fit for my purpose exploring the local countryside, I've just got to get me one of these Light Bee's to play with!

So along with the new Sur Ron bike, I plan to buy a new DJI Mavik Air Drone, and then attempt to make some cool vids during my ride outs.. So I will certainly be posting a few of the better examples here over the coming months, with a report on the Light Bee in Thailand..

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Alex Imreh » Feb 04 2018 6:09am

I spent 4 winter holidays in the land of smile, total 6 month, great place to rent bikes, to bike in winter. I know there is a Kawasaki factory in Thailand? John have you tried to get a good price for enduro Kawa? I think I am not offtopic with this, we can consider that the great war bettween gas and EV have started and the Little Dragon will mean a lot in this war. So let as estimate, from a "commercial" point of view, a comparison between FireFly and KLX models. At present most EV buyers are kind of mystical, we buy ebike much because of "ideological" reasons. Soon people will choose EVs because it is better deal, less service costs, less costs with "fuel".
kawa.JPG
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The FireFly is equivalent with what Kawa KLX model as power / top speed / acceleration? KLX 140-150cc is about 2500usd in Thailand. Those who had the chance to buy use the FireFly can tell us, the Little Dragon will accelerate like a KLX XXXcc? Top speed for KLX140 is 55m/h, 88km/h? That is over FireFly, true FF is almost half weight. Range is also 2 times better for a gas bikes, at least. If FireFly is equivalent with KLX 110cc as speed/acceleration than we should consider that KLX110 is less than 1700usd in Thailand. How much gasoline can you buy in Thailand with 1000usd?? Many many kms!
In this comparison the FireFly could have the advantage of acceleration. So could anybody make some acceleration tests recorded on Strava.com? Hyena, Aebrennan - please?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 04 2018 12:52pm

Alex Imreh wrote:
Feb 04 2018 6:09am
I spent 4 winter holidays in the land of smile, total 6 month, great place to rent bikes, to bike in winter. I know there is a Kawasaki factory in Thailand? John have you tried to get a good price for enduro Kawa? I think I am not offtopic with this, we can consider that the great war bettween gas and EV have started and the Little Dragon will mean a lot in this war. So let as estimate, from a "commercial" point of view, a comparison between FireFly and KLX models. At present most EV buyers are kind of mystical, we buy ebike much because of "ideological" reasons. Soon people will choose EVs because it is better deal, less service costs, less costs with "fuel".
G
The FireFly is equivalent with what Kawa KLX model as power / top speed / acceleration? KLX 140-150cc is about 2500usd in Thailand. Those who had the chance to buy use the FireFly can tell us, the Little Dragon will accelerate like a KLX XXXcc? Top speed for KLX140 is 55m/h, 88km/h? That is over FireFly, true FF is almost half weight. Range is also 2 times better for a gas bikes, at least. If FireFly is equivalent with KLX 110cc as speed/acceleration than we should consider that KLX110 is less than 1700usd in Thailand. How much gasoline can you buy in Thailand with 1000usd?? Many many kms!
In this comparison the FireFly could have the advantage of acceleration. So could anybody make some acceleration tests recorded on Strava.com? Hyena, Aebrennan - please?
I think all someone needs to do is note a 0-50km/h acceleration time for the Sur-Ron to give an idea. Of course there is no e-bike or e-motorcycle that will have the range of their gas equivalent counterparts. My Alpha @ 7KW would smoke my CRF230F from 0-30 MPH, I mean bad. So it wouldn't surprise me if the Sur-Ron is quicker than a KLX140 from 0-30 MPH. Especially if the Sur-Ron has a 58T on the rear.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Alex Imreh » Feb 04 2018 1:57pm

I think most relevant is 0 to 40km/h, than acceleration top speed in first 4-5 seconds, while it still accelerates fast, than top speed after 8-10s ..

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 04 2018 10:17pm

Alex Imreh wrote:
Feb 04 2018 1:57pm
I think most relevant is 0 to 40km/h, than acceleration top speed in first 4-5 seconds, while it still accelerates fast, than top speed after 8-10s ..
Yah Alex, thats where I was going, I think 0-50km/h but 0-40km/h is a good tell tale sign.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Johne-bike » Feb 05 2018 6:43am

Rix wrote:
Feb 04 2018 12:52pm
Alex Imreh wrote:
Feb 04 2018 6:09am
I spent 4 winter holidays in the land of smile, total 6 month, great place to rent bikes, to bike in winter. I know there is a Kawasaki factory in Thailand? John have you tried to get a good price for enduro Kawa? I think I am not offtopic with this, we can consider that the great war bettween gas and EV have started and the Little Dragon will mean a lot in this war. So let as estimate, from a "commercial" point of view, a comparison between FireFly and KLX models. At present most EV buyers are kind of mystical, we buy ebike much because of "ideological" reasons. Soon people will choose EVs because it is better deal, less service costs, less costs with "fuel".
G
The FireFly is equivalent with what Kawa KLX model as power / top speed / acceleration? KLX 140-150cc is about 2500usd in Thailand. Those who had the chance to buy use the FireFly can tell us, the Little Dragon will accelerate like a KLX XXXcc? Top speed for KLX140 is 55m/h, 88km/h? That is over FireFly, true FF is almost half weight. Range is also 2 times better for a gas bikes, at least. If FireFly is equivalent with KLX 110cc as speed/acceleration than we should consider that KLX110 is less than 1700usd in Thailand. How much gasoline can you buy in Thailand with 1000usd?? Many many kms!
In this comparison the FireFly could have the advantage of acceleration. So could anybody make some acceleration tests recorded on Strava.com? Hyena, Aebrennan - please?
I think all someone needs to do is note a 0-50km/h acceleration time for the Sur-Ron to give an idea. Of course there is no e-bike or e-motorcycle that will have the range of their gas equivalent counterparts. My Alpha @ 7KW would smoke my CRF230F from 0-30 MPH, I mean bad. So it wouldn't surprise me if the Sur-Ron is quicker than a KLX140 from 0-30 MPH. Especially if the Sur-Ron has a 58T on the rear.
Interesting comments from you guys, and some very valid points about the cost/performance /practicality ratios of the Light Bee versus gas bikes such as the Kawasaki models you mention.
However, for me the decision is far less rational.. I just really love the complete satisfaction I personally derive from riding an electric powered bike. I love the effortless, quiet performance and also enjoy riding something that is virtually unique in this part of the world. I just get such pleasure from riding my Mxus Fattie that I have never enjoyed in the same way on gas bikes.
Of course, we have the Thai universal Honda Wave 125 for running around locally, the Nissan Navara pick up for longer journeys, and this year I plan to supplement our 13 year old Wave with a new Honda Forza 300 big scooter. I have fancied one of these for ages for longer runs with my wife into our nearest towns, for some lunch and light shopping.
But since I've had my electric Fattie, kitted up with carrier rack and bags I only ever use this for pleasure riding out, and shopping in the village, leaving the Honda to my wife.
The Sur Ron Light Bee is going to be my fun, blaster for exploring further afield from home. Its going to be quite quick enough for my riding needs.. I am fit, 72kgs and 67 this birthday, so I have developed a greater sense of self preservation in the last few years, but still love the thrill of some smooth yet quiet performance out on our local fast, flat trails. 8)
I reckon my mid distance travelling needs for myself and Puy will be well served on the Honda Forza..
The dear old Navara pick up consequently only gets a run out usually twice a month for some bigger shopping trips, and when I have to fit 15 or 20 family members in the back for a trip out somewhere :lol:
Anyway, I'll sure to give an update on my Sur Ron purchase experience.. Currently I'm waiting for a reply from them confirming my quotation to supply and shipping price to Thailand.. :wink:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Johne-bike » Feb 05 2018 7:07am

tmp-cam-2033110417.jpg
My wife also loves riding our young daughters 20", 1000w Fattie!
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[attachtmp-cam--1915220819.jpg[/attachment]

This is our other 2 members of our bike fleet.. My Wife also now wants her own electric bike, so I'm considering a Frey AM 1000 Fatbike which will be released for sale in the near future. This would be a neat bike, fitted with racks and fenders and be practical both for running to the village shops, and comfortable for longer rides with it's FS design, and Bafang Ultra Max torque sensing drive.
I plan on keeping the Light Bee all to myself..!!
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Our Thai Universal Honda Wave..!
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Hyena » Feb 05 2018 5:27pm

Johne-bike wrote:
Feb 05 2018 7:07am
This is our other 2 members of our bike fleet..
I'm glad you confirmed that was a 20" wheel fat bike. At first I thought it was 26" and I was thinking "damn that's the biggest Thai woman I've ever seen!" :lol:
Sounds like a cool part of the world to live/ride in. I take it electricity supply isn't an issue ?

I would say the surron is most similar to the KLX140 - at least the older ones. This is a clone I owned nearly 15 years ago and without having them back to back to compare, I'd say the size and performance are quite similar. Obviously for the above mentioned reasons, the surron has a whole different application.

I'll make an acceleration video this weekend and show both the stock speedo and GPS verified. The GPS lags behind unfortunately but it will give an idea once the speed stabilizes. I'm also trying to line up a drag race with my neighbour who owns a 110cc honda scooter. heh

Oh and seeing as a few of you like the vlog style vids I'll do some more :)
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Allex » Feb 05 2018 6:04pm

Jay!
Make some comparison with 3-6kW hubby and surron!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Hyena » Feb 05 2018 7:14pm

Annecdotally I can tell you even at 5kw the hub feels more potent and responsive, but then it's running a bigger controller turned down in the CA so it'd be higher phase currents. But the hubs do bog down on the steep stuff.
In a flat drag race the hub pulls in front straight away then gradually keeps pulling away with the higher speed (depending on wind and voltage obviously)
But on a steep hill when I've had a mate riding side by side if we both punch it wide open the surron starts to pull ahead. But then when the hill levels off the hub reels it back in.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Allex » Feb 06 2018 4:29am

Thats it, time for new controller mod on this thing Jay!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Johne-bike » Feb 06 2018 5:56pm

Following my email to Jun Ye at Sur Ron asking for confirmation of price for my chosen specification and shipping cost to Thailand for my Light Bee, I received a very nice, and prompt reply from Jun.

Sending his thanks for my continued interest, he apologised explaining that Sur Ron were shutting down for Chinese New Year celebrations, and he would confirm all my details, pricing etc on their return to work at the end of February.

No problem for me, as I am not looking to take delivery until April, and I continue to be delighted at the excellent customer service and response I am receiving from Sur-Ron, and many other Chinese companies that I have had the pleasure of purchasing from over the last few years. I can name Frey Bikes, ChangZhou SuRing Mxus, and all the other companies I have purchased items from through both Alibaba and Aliexpress as providing great products at good prices with excellent customer service.

I hope everyone from Sur Ron enjoys a great and well deserved Chinese New Year holiday!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Nicolescarcliff » Feb 08 2018 7:27am

mr.electric wrote:
Dec 26 2017 11:28pm
Luna Cycle tears it up once again. Offering a small ev with a 2kw hour battery for 3400 dollars. Our options here in the USA is we can buy a Pedego for about the same price. Or we can do what others suggest and go buy direct from china from who knows who.

Its funny that the Sur-Ron is what a lot of us original ESers have dreamed of and could get anything even close for under 10k.

Luna will be offering a pedal kit on this bike soon that will make it nothing less than a mid drive stealth bomber with a mid drive. Basically twice the bike for a 4th the price.

I heard the ebike battery was developed here in the USA by a few key engineers a few of them actually ESers....and they work on a team with the L word.

I also heard of big upgrades that Luna is going to offer very soon "for off road use only" where you will be able to run over 15k continuous watts with a fov sine wave controller (a modipus unit) and upgraded battery and bms...

But hey Luna are bad guys. (whatever) Its a bad thing that because of ebike politics that luna is not allowed to even post on this forum and tell you guys all the big news. Ask yourself why.
I think it will be a legit dirt bike alternative . Range will be sick with 60x33 battery . Hope it is well developed and packed

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Allex » Feb 13 2018 6:30pm

Looks like Sur-Ron changed their 10A chargers.
These are made to be mounted inside the bike, but works just as good as an external one.
The 300A kelly on the left in comparison, and It is tempting to swap out original controller to it!
IMG_4329.jpg
Now, who want to see the battery?
I got to tell you, these guys mean business. This is the best built battery on the market to date for this kind of money!
Everything is water proof, really well thought-out and high quality components everywhere.
Supra x connectors on the drain side
cnlinko industrial connectors on the charge side, waterproof and very high quality.
No cheap XLR/Anderson connectors here. They really put their heart into this battery!
IMG_4326.jpg

The only thing I would improve is having thicker nickel strips, but this is only needed if you want to suck more than 85A from the original cells. And you cannot do this because the stock BMS itself is 85A rated.
So you probably end up swapping BMS as well once you start mod this bike with diff. controller.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by fechter » Feb 13 2018 8:03pm

Wow, thanks for posting the teardown on the pack. Can you read the numbers on the BMS chips? It looks better than the typical cheap Chinese variety.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Hyena » Feb 13 2018 8:30pm

If you really want to impress me Alex show me the same internals of the controller - points will only be rewarded for revealing 100v fets and caps :P
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Allex » Feb 14 2018 3:22am

Yeah yeah,
While you guys enjoy the sunny weather and actually use this thing, we can only dissect what we have while it is raining everyday on a winter!

fechter,
Looks like the top one is the processor you can even see the jtag pinout below it. The lower one is BMS chip?
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by fechter » Feb 14 2018 9:16am

Interesting.

Here's a cut sheet for the BMS chip:

http://www.lapis-semi.com/en/data/leafl ... 238_en.pdf
Lapis BMS.JPG
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by JuiceMeUp » Feb 15 2018 7:11pm

I'd like to weigh in with some impressions after a few months of ownership.

There's some comparison further up to smaller Japanese Gas bikes. They will ultimately have more range.
Acceleration wise, a 0 - 50Kph would be very close in Sur-ron's stock gearing. But I don't think it's a useful comparison.

Where this thing really shines is in tight single track, hard enduro type riding. I take the Sur-ron to places I wouldn't even go with a mountain bike. I do climbs with it that would have me shitting my pants (or not even attempting) on my KTM690. Descents as well. I have full confidence dropping into an unexplored valley or gorge that I will get back out.
I've lifted it over fences and dragged it by the front wheel up vertical rock faces to get where I planned on going (not easy but did it alone)
Though it's wheels are smaller than a full sized moto, it smashes over the chunkiest of terrain due to it's low CofG and small, nimble size.
Acceleration in the tight stuff is more than I need.

In the off-road technical terrain, this thing makes me feel like Graham Jarvis. It's making me a better Dirt-Moto rider. 1. Because if it's un-intimidating power, balance and stability and 2. At 5'7",it's the only bike i've had that my size can dominate.

What would I change?
1. Ergo's - Higer bars, wider pegs (personal preference)
2. Larger rear sprocket to make it even more capable in above mentioned terrain. In standard gearing, I do like being able to have the speed to run with traffic when the situation calls for it. Ultimately, a higher voltage battery and different controller to offset the difference would be the dream.
3. More powerful brakes. There OK stock, but working very hard on long downhill descents
4. Regen. That would take a lot of strain off the brakes

Thanks to the guys that have posted tear down's so far. I'd like to eventually put my own up but don't want to eat into my riding time by accidentally butchering it.

Hey-I also just discovered that it is a cable actuated throttle (turning a servo tester? in the controller). Guess that's how it keeps it IP rating and survives the pressure washer at the end of the day...

All up. This little Sur-ron is full of pleasant surprises

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by LeftieBiker » Feb 17 2018 1:11am

Where this thing really shines is in tight single track, hard enduro type riding. I take the Sur-ron to places I wouldn't even go with a mountain bike. I do climbs with it that would have me shitting my pants (or not even attempting) on my KTM690. Descents as well. I have full confidence dropping into an unexplored valley or gorge that I will get back out.
I've lifted it over fences and dragged it by the front wheel up vertical rock faces to get where I planned on going (not easy but did it alone)
Though it's wheels are smaller than a full sized moto, it smashes over the chunkiest of terrain due to it's low CofG and small, nimble size.
Acceleration in the tight stuff is more than I need.
There was one video posted in which the bike may have been struggling with a long, steepish uphill run. Would you say that it can take a 190lb rider up short but near-vertical hills like gravel pit walls without bogging? How about longer uphills with tolerable but still steep angles? If not, what size rear sprocket would it need? I'd be doing mainly casual trail riding, but with the occasional badass hill. Just to get to one riding area I'd first have to climb a pretty serious hill...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by motomoto » Feb 17 2018 11:37am

The gearing is a compromise. The bike will do 45 mph with stock gearing. At the same time it will pull the front wheel
off the ground from a dead stop. It will climb super steep stuff with this stock gearing. If you were climbing super steep
stuff for a 1,000 feet I would say put a bigger sprocket on the back accordingly. Electric motors heat up when they are
given high loads at low rpm, the motor in the Sur-ron is no different. I have one of Sur-rons 58 tooth sprockets (stock is 48),
but I haven't tried it yet. It is steel and kind of heavy, but would be great for climbing, It calculates out to 37 mph top speed.
That is not too bad for trail riding. I plan on making an assortment of 7075 aluminum sprockets for the bike along with a
belt drive super stealth kit. All you really hear from the bike is the chain whirling around the small sprocket, so if you
eliminate the chain it would be super quiet.
Even though you get maximum torque from zero rpm, torque X rpm equals horsepower or getting things moved
at a faster rate. The higher rpm would also spin the fan faster on the motor dispersing more heat.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Feb 17 2018 3:32pm

I have let anyone interested test ride my bikes including a 120 kg motocross rider and a 140 kg novice.
Both guys are very tall probably 6’6”
Both rode the bikes for 30 minutes off road and I’ve had no issues.
Obviously the rear sag was huge and they were not 100% comfortable but they both still enjoyed the bike and were surprised at its performance with their payload.
I took the 140kg rider on the same loop I took Juicemeup on, varied terrain steep hills etc no problem.
The bigger guy loved it and is buying one, I will fit the heavier rear shock and a bigger front wheel for him.
I have been doing some testing with a 26” front Halo SAS rim with my RST fork equipped bike and the front end feels much better, lighter and sharper and just more comfortable. I highly recommended this upgrade.
Next week I will fit a 27.5” wheel to my Fastace equipped bike.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by LeftieBiker » Feb 17 2018 6:07pm

motomoto wrote:
Feb 17 2018 11:37am
The gearing is a compromise. The bike will do 45 mph with stock gearing. At the same time it will pull the front wheel
off the ground from a dead stop. It will climb super steep stuff with this stock gearing. If you were climbing super steep
stuff for a 1,000 feet I would say put a bigger sprocket on the back accordingly. Electric motors heat up when they are
given high loads at low rpm, the motor in the Sur-ron is no different. I have one of Sur-rons 58 tooth sprockets (stock is 48),
but I haven't tried it yet. It is steel and kind of heavy, but would be great for climbing, It calculates out to 37 mph top speed.
That is not too bad for trail riding. I plan on making an assortment of 7075 aluminum sprockets for the bike along with a
belt drive super stealth kit. All you really hear from the bike is the chain whirling around the small sprocket, so if you
eliminate the chain it would be super quiet.
Even though you get maximum torque from zero rpm, torque X rpm equals horsepower or getting things moved
at a faster rate. The higher rpm would also spin the fan faster on the motor dispersing more heat.
Thanks for the detailed response. It sounds like I'd probably be fine with the stock gearing. I just didn't want to find I was unable to even get to the local gravel pits because of that first big, steep hill.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 17 2018 7:34pm

motomoto wrote:
Feb 17 2018 11:37am
The gearing is a compromise. The bike will do 45 mph with stock gearing. At the same time it will pull the front wheel
off the ground from a dead stop. It will climb super steep stuff with this stock gearing. If you were climbing super steep
stuff for a 1,000 feet I would say put a bigger sprocket on the back accordingly. Electric motors heat up when they are
given high loads at low rpm, the motor in the Sur-ron is no different. I have one of Sur-rons 58 tooth sprockets (stock is 48),
but I haven't tried it yet. It is steel and kind of heavy, but would be great for climbing, It calculates out to 37 mph top speed.
That is not too bad for trail riding. I plan on making an assortment of 7075 aluminum sprockets for the bike along with a
belt drive super stealth kit. All you really hear from the bike is the chain whirling around the small sprocket, so if you
eliminate the chain it would be super quiet.
Even though you get maximum torque from zero rpm, torque X rpm equals horsepower or getting things moved
at a faster rate. The higher rpm would also spin the fan faster on the motor dispersing more heat.
Got an ETA on your 7075 Aluminum sprockets? Going to need one pretty quick.

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