Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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stonezone   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by stonezone » Apr 26 2018 4:47pm

So, quick question for the experienced guys..... I want more power (like evertyone) and am contemplating voiding my warrenty before I really should and swapping out the controller (i also just picked up 8 x 16ah 4s multistars for just over $400 to make a 16s32ah pack).

I've got 2 controllers (and spare CA) in my posession to choose from:

Lyen 18 FET controller (on a bike that needs new more and more parts as the days go by)
or
VEC3000 GM Sine Wave controller (just sitting new in the box)

What would you do in my situation?

thanks eh...
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Sur-Ron
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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 26 2018 6:57pm

Rix wrote:
Apr 21 2018 10:33pm
Aebrennan wrote:
Apr 21 2018 6:41pm
I have fitted 100/70 in 19inch, they are a front tyre suited for a big wheel 85.
Probably 3 times heavier than the CST factory fitted tyre, but 3 times the rubber.
I just ordered 2 Bridgestone M403 70/100-19 tires for mine. They weigh about 5.5 pounds each. I don't know how much the stock CST tires weigh, but I bet they are heavier than Duro's 24x3.00 Razorbacks which come in at just over 3 pounds. That said, it shouldn't be much of a weight gain, maybe 3 pounds overall.
I couldn't find the Dunlop MX71Fs anywhere in the states, so I went with the Bridgestone M403s. Installation was pretty painless (I had never changed motorcycle tires before so wasn't sure what to expect). Here is a link for amazon shoppers:
https://amzn.to/2r4yAgP

I weighed the CSTs and M403s with the M403s coming in just under a pound heavier. I think that weight went to the nubs - they look about twice as deep - rad!

They look way meaner than the stock ones! :twisted:
Image

You're right about the front just fitting. The back might take 110's but I think that would be iffy!
Image

Definitely no wider will fit in the front (without cutting the side nubs off at least):
Image

Image

Image

Glad I got them, thanks for the recommendation Rix!

:D

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 26 2018 10:03pm

Glad I got them, thanks for the recommendation Rix!
Ironically I ran this tire on my Bomber and loved it for off road. Off road wise, its the best tire I have ever ran on an ebike, but the Shinko SR241 2.75-19 is king for all around pavement and dirt performance. Anyway, thanks for posting the pics, looks awesome on your Sur-Ron. I don't thing a 110 would fit the rear, not because of the swing arm width, its ample, but look how close your chain line is to the M403. I think a 110 would be hitting the chain line. When you get a ride in, let us know how you like the M403. I am betting they hook up way better and stick way better in the corners than the stock CST.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 27 2018 8:18am

Those Bridgestone M403s look great. The extra knob depth will really give some traction.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Apr 27 2018 12:39pm

Is there any detailed review comparison between the Fastace ALX13RC and the DNM USD-8S forks? Or any person here who had the chance to ride both of them and can tell me the main differences and what he prefered in the end?

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by brumbrum » Apr 27 2018 1:56pm

racingame wrote:
Apr 27 2018 12:39pm
Is there any detailed review comparison between the Fastace ALX13RC and the DNM USD-8S forks? Or any person here who had the chance to ride both of them and can tell me the main differences and what he prefered in the end?

Yes, lunacycles recently put up a video clip on youtube [youtube]https://youtu.be/LJ33aqBfS48[/youtube]

racingame   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Apr 27 2018 8:06pm

brumbrum wrote:
Apr 27 2018 1:56pm
racingame wrote:
Apr 27 2018 12:39pm
Is there any detailed review comparison between the Fastace ALX13RC and the DNM USD-8S forks? Or any person here who had the chance to ride both of them and can tell me the main differences and what he prefered in the end?

Yes, lunacycles recently put up a video clip on youtube [youtube]https://youtu.be/LJ33aqBfS48[/youtube]
I already watched that, the fork in the video is a USD-8A (different model), and also it's not mounted on a bike so I doubt they tested it.

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brumbrum   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by brumbrum » Apr 28 2018 1:54am

racingame wrote:
Apr 27 2018 8:06pm
brumbrum wrote:
Apr 27 2018 1:56pm
racingame wrote:
Apr 27 2018 12:39pm
Is there any detailed review comparison between the Fastace ALX13RC and the DNM USD-8S forks? Or any person here who had the chance to ride both of them and can tell me the main differences and what he prefered in the end?

Yes, lunacycles recently put up a video clip on youtube [youtube]https://youtu.be/LJ33aqBfS48[/youtube]
I already watched that, the fork in the video is a USD-8A (different model), and also it's not mounted on a bike so I doubt they tested it.
So whats the difference between an 8A and an 8S? One's a coil and ones an air?

m3t   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 28 2018 2:46am

brumbrum wrote:
Apr 28 2018 1:54am
racingame wrote:
Apr 27 2018 8:06pm
brumbrum wrote:
Apr 27 2018 1:56pm
racingame wrote:
Apr 27 2018 12:39pm
Is there any detailed review comparison between the Fastace ALX13RC and the DNM USD-8S forks? Or any person here who had the chance to ride both of them and can tell me the main differences and what he prefered in the end?

Yes, lunacycles recently put up a video clip on youtube [youtube]https://youtu.be/LJ33aqBfS48[/youtube]
I already watched that, the fork in the video is a USD-8A (different model), and also it's not mounted on a bike so I doubt they tested it.
So whats the difference between an 8A and an 8S? One's a coil and ones an air?
8S is a spring (coil)
8A is an air spring, but only has a air adjustment for the bottom (compression)

racingame   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Apr 28 2018 10:12am

I've been knowing and used DNM for a while already, so I'm going to give a shot to Fastace and see how good they perform. Guys from Luna saying they prefer the RST, while here on forum I read people prefering Fastace. I guess it's just a matter of tastes. :roll:

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Apr 28 2018 12:19pm

I have both the Fast ace and the RST. The RST forks are amazing but look like a mountain bike fork and have a larger turning
radius. My Fast Ace forks work crappy and both legs leak oil and the air side leaks the air from one chamber to another which
means the fork gets shorter and shorter and I drain the negative chamber and the fork pops up but then the air pressure gets
less and less in the main chamber. I love the sharper turning radius of these forks though.

I wish there was a kit you could buy to make the Fast Ace forks work good and converted them to a coil spring set up.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Apr 28 2018 10:30pm

motomoto wrote:
Apr 28 2018 12:19pm
I have both the Fast ace and the RST. The RST forks are amazing but look like a mountain bike fork and have a larger turning
radius. My Fast Ace forks work crappy and both legs leak oil and the air side leaks the air from one chamber to another which
means the fork gets shorter and shorter and I drain the negative chamber and the fork pops up but then the air pressure gets
less and less in the main chamber. I love the sharper turning radius of these forks though.

I wish there was a kit you could buy to make the Fast Ace forks work good and converted them to a coil spring set up.
Sur-ron no longer offers the Fastace as an air fork, the last batch of bikes we received were the spring version.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Apr 28 2018 10:32pm

stonezone wrote:
Apr 26 2018 4:47pm
So, quick question for the experienced guys..... I want more power (like evertyone) and am contemplating voiding my warrenty before I really should and swapping out the controller (i also just picked up 8 x 16ah 4s multistars for just over $400 to make a 16s32ah pack).

I've got 2 controllers (and spare CA) in my posession to choose from:

Lyen 18 FET controller (on a bike that needs new more and more parts as the days go by)
or
VEC3000 GM Sine Wave controller (just sitting new in the box)

What would you do in my situation?

thanks eh...
You could wait for the factory sine wave controller.
Aebikes.com.au will have stock late May

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 29 2018 8:54am

racingame wrote:
Apr 27 2018 12:39pm
Is there any detailed review comparison between the Fastace ALX13RC and the DNM USD-8S forks? Or any person here who had the chance to ride both of them and can tell me the main differences and what he prefered in the end?
I haven’t ridden the FastAce extensively but I did replace my RSTs with the DNM-USD8A and I really like it. The air shock portion holds pressure just fine, even after a fairly rough ride off road where I’m climbing steps with the bike. The suspension is nicely tunable, and frankly looks way better than with the RSTs. That being said, I may get another pair of FastAces just to differentiate between the 3. Also the DNMs don’t require tools to adjust, other than the air shock portion.

For ANY air shock, you will need an air shock pump. I recommend the digital ones, Venzo is a good brand that uses that same model as the WP and KTM models that are $70 each but the Venzo is $40, just no brand name but exactly the same awesome pump. Super accurate and you’ll need it to fine tune to different ride situations.

Also, everyone seems to want the coil for reliability and what not, but keep in mind air springs have the awesome advantage of being a progressive spring, meaning it will have the ability to absorb small bumps easily due to the low spring rate on initial compression, but can take larger hits due to the air inside compressing and acting like a stiffer spring when increasing travel. Does that make sense? This I love because it can handle a wide variety of terrain, which is immediately adjustable without having to replace the spring aka the spring rate is controlled by the air pressure.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 29 2018 10:14am

motomoto wrote:
Apr 28 2018 12:19pm
I have both the Fast ace and the RST. The RST forks are amazing but look like a mountain bike fork and have a larger turning
radius. My Fast Ace forks work crappy and both legs leak oil and the air side leaks the air from one chamber to another which
means the fork gets shorter and shorter and I drain the negative chamber and the fork pops up but then the air pressure gets
less and less in the main chamber. I love the sharper turning radius of these forks though.

I wish there was a kit you could buy to make the Fast Ace forks work good and converted them to a coil spring set up.
With you Kim, I haven't ridden the RST "Killah" fork yet, but I have ridden is predecessor' fork, the RST R-One. It was better, and stiffer than the Fast Ace. I only chose the Fast Ace because I plan on replacing the fork soon.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 29 2018 3:30pm

Rix wrote:
Apr 26 2018 10:03pm
Glad I got them, thanks for the recommendation Rix!
Ironically I ran this tire on my Bomber and loved it for off road. Off road wise, its the best tire I have ever ran on an ebike, but the Shinko SR241 2.75-19 is king for all around pavement and dirt performance. Anyway, thanks for posting the pics, looks awesome on your Sur-Ron. I don't thing a 110 would fit the rear, not because of the swing arm width, its ample, but look how close your chain line is to the M403. I think a 110 would be hitting the chain line. When you get a ride in, let us know how you like the M403. I am betting they hook up way better and stick way better in the corners than the stock CST.
Thanks!

Oh yeah indeed its the chain that I thought was the limiting factor. However, I think its actually the kickstand that is limiting the width. With these new tires on and going over real rough terrain I occasionally feel a pang on the left foot peg. I think the kickstand spring peg is either making contact with the side nubs or a rock is getting in-between the tread and the kickstand spring peg. Trying to figure out exactly what is causing it. Not a show stopper, but its a bit concerning.

I only had 50 miles on the first set of tires so its hard for me to have a full understanding of the benefits of the M403s, but I think it definitely corners much better and feels more grabby.

I was charging up the mountain hard yesterday with nearly a full battery, and the power started to cut out on me. I shot a video but it was my first time out with the chest mounted gimbal so the angle is not ideal and my darn GPS hogs the view - but I can post a clip it anyone wants to see it. Anyhow, I turned off sports mode for a few minutes and it was fine, then switched back to sports mode.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 29 2018 9:14pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 29 2018 3:30pm
I was charging up the mountain hard yesterday with nearly a full battery, and the power started to cut out on me.
Correction: I just got back from a ride, and I suspect yesterday when it got hairy I had my hands on the break maybe barely being squeezed (as I am used to doing in dicy conditions). So I don't think I overloaded it. Think I am going to remove the break wire connection.

As for the panging I am feeling on the left side I am sure it is happening when the suspension takes a hit and not a rock. Going to see what I can do to get a little more clearance for the rear tire.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Apr 30 2018 9:14am

Guys, could you explain to a new noob what is a break wire connection you are talking about?

Is it good or bad thing?

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 30 2018 9:27am

Uran93 wrote:
Apr 30 2018 9:14am
Guys, could you explain to a new noob what is a break wire connection you are talking about?

Is it good or bad thing?
As it comes from the factory, there are switches built into the brake levers that will cut power to the motor anytime the brake levers are pulled. This is a safety feature. Some people don't like this feature and disable it by unplugging the wires going to the levers.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by skeetab5780 » Apr 30 2018 2:13pm

fechter wrote:
Apr 27 2018 8:18am
Those Bridgestone M403s look great. The extra knob depth will really give some traction.
and add 10 more pounds to the bike!

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 30 2018 2:43pm

skeetab5780 wrote:
Apr 30 2018 2:13pm
fechter wrote:
Apr 27 2018 8:18am
Those Bridgestone M403s look great. The extra knob depth will really give some traction.
and add 10 more pounds to the bike!
Actually its less than 3 pounds.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Apr 30 2018 3:14pm

Aebrennan wrote:
Apr 28 2018 10:32pm
You could wait for the factory sine wave controller.
Aebikes.com.au will have stock late May
I asked SUR-RON about the sine wave controller but they said it's still in beta, and it may change even more in the next months, that's why they don't offer it for more than 2 per customer I think. They basically told me it isn't available for large distribution, just for testing and to give a feedback about it. If you could make a video or an extensive review of the differences you've found when you get it, it would be very useful to everybody I think. :D For what I know, FOC controllers while being more efficient and smoother at low RPMs, also usually generate more heat, and I'm kinda concerned about heating since the Light Bee mounts an air-cooled motor. I don't expect it to be much more silent tho.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 30 2018 3:33pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 29 2018 9:14pm
As for the panging I am feeling on the left side I am sure it is happening when the suspension takes a hit and not a rock. Going to see what I can do to get a little more clearance for the rear tire.
OK so the tire is definitely limited to width by the kickstand spring stand as you can see:
Image

I think the most elegant solution would be to fabricate a couple slightly shorter stands (there is some clearance for the spring), but I think the quickest and easiest way to get a bit more clearance is to bring the stand mount out with a few washers (or combine the two techniques for more clearance).

So I am just going to add a couple washers here:
Image

I bet more pressure in the tire would help too. I am not sure what they should be - I have them at 35PSI now. The label said don't exceed the maximum pressure indicated on the sidewall, but I don't see it anywhere on it.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Apr 30 2018 3:40pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 30 2018 3:33pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 29 2018 9:14pm
As for the panging I am feeling on the left side I am sure it is happening when the suspension takes a hit and not a rock. Going to see what I can do to get a little more clearance for the rear tire.
OK so the tire is definitely limited to width by the kickstand spring stand as you can see:
Image

I think the most elegant solution would be to fabricate a couple slightly shorter stands (there is some clearance for the spring), but I think the quickest and easiest way to get a bit more clearance is to bring the stand mount out with a few washers (or combine the two techniques for more clearance).

So I am just going to add a couple washers here:
Image

I bet more pressure in the tire would help too. I am not sure what they should be - I have them at 35PSI now. The label said don't exceed the maximum pressure indicated on the sidewall, but I don't see it anywhere on it.
I received my bike with 30 psi on factory tires. I didn't like traction and lowered it to 15. I might go lower still. I would like to but don't want to have an issue with tubes.

Can you just modify your spring holder? That's what looks to be rubbing. Seems like you could cut it off shorter and grind a new area for spring to mount. Or possibly a different one would bolt on?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Apr 30 2018 3:41pm

Also, thank you Rix. Good doing business with you. Received my sprocket super fast and waiting on new chain now.

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