Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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DanGT86   10 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by DanGT86 » May 01 2018 9:54pm

motomoto wrote:
May 01 2018 4:28pm

I ordered a BAC8000. I will have to change the resistor. A photo would be cool so that I know which one.
Is the BAC8000 available to the general public? Do they stock them or are you having them made for you as a distributor for these sur-ron? Whats involved in programing it to the sur-ron or any other motor?

Looks like an awesome controller for everything short of a full weight motocross bike.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » May 01 2018 9:56pm

artisanstone wrote:
May 01 2018 2:54pm
Rix wrote:
May 01 2018 7:28am
artisanstone wrote:
Apr 30 2018 3:41pm
Also, thank you Rix. Good doing business with you. Received my sprocket super fast and waiting on new chain now.
Glad it arrived so quick. Im sure you will like it better.
Got it put together. Whoah!

Exactly what I wanted it to be. I highly recommend this mod.
THats exactly what I thought as well.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » May 01 2018 10:03pm

Front fork question. Are the RST and Fast Ace forks on the Sur-Ron have a straight 1 1/8" tube or tapered 1 1/8 to 1 1/2 in tapered unit? I can tell by frame's head tube that the bearings are 1.5" units, however, I don't want to take it part to see what the internal bearing diameter is. I guess I am lazy. I am going to spend some serious coin on a new fork and want to get the right one.

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jph3   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by jph3 » May 01 2018 10:09pm

New video of modded Surron:

https://youtu.be/UIACF2i8o-M

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » May 01 2018 10:32pm

Is the BAC8000 available to the general public? Do they stock them or are you having them made for you as a distributor for these sur-ron? Whats involved in programing it to the sur-ron or any other motor?
Here is the link ASI sent me.
https://accelerated-systems-inc.myshopi ... -bluetooth

It's all brand new and Luna is spearheading it. If you don't know what you are doing, you should wait for Luna to sell a kit. I don't
know what I am doing and am getting in way over my head, but I want to beat all the bikes at the local track.


Here is Luna's video

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 02 2018 4:51am

Luke, the images are blocked for us, Think you need to open them up for public, thx
liveforphysics wrote:
May 01 2018 4:44pm
Stock BMS has 16 x 5mOhm surface mount resistors composing the shunt (0.31mOhm combined). We just doubled up each resistor and it's enough to get everything the OEM pack can deliver to a hotrod controller, and still has functional over voltage, under voltage, and over-temp protection. Soldering work looks awful because it's an aluminum PCB and our iron's weren't high enough power.

Image

Image

WrongWayJefe   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by WrongWayJefe » May 02 2018 7:58am

General question, do these bikes come with a vin number?0

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 02 2018 7:59am

motomoto wrote:
May 01 2018 4:28pm

I ordered a BAC8000. I will have to change the resistor. A photo would be cool so that I know which one. I can see a CNC mount
for the ASI controller in my future for me and for everyone else.

I also see the possibility of drilling some holes in the motor and pumping in clean cool air with a good air filter and air pump
and pushing out hot gasses making sure nothing gets in the motor with tubing and a one way air valve.
Since the motor is an inrunner, you wouldn't get much benefit from ventilating the insides. It would help to put a fan blowing on the outside though, especially if you are climbing at slow speeds.

The video was pretty impressive. The Zero was barely ahead at the end. Could just be the aerodynamic drag of the cat ears on the helmet.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by skeetab5780 » May 02 2018 8:23am

Is anyone going to bring up the fact that the Sur-ron was being ridden by a 95lb girl and the Zero ridden by a 220lb guy, let me guess the pack wasn't charged on the Zero either!

otherwise bike seems very fun and peppy!

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 02 2018 1:25pm

skeetab5780 wrote:
May 02 2018 8:23am
Is anyone going to bring up the fact that the Sur-ron was being ridden by a 95lb girl and the Zero ridden by a 220lb guy, let me guess the pack wasn't charged on the Zero either!

otherwise bike seems very fun and peppy!
Amazingly, when that video was filmed the Sur Ron was not yet BMS hacked to let it draw more than 9kW. The day after that video the BMS was modded to let the controller be turned up to 16kW+.

ES member Farfle and I Raced Zero DSR and Zero FX vs the Sur Ron at least a dozen times, he is similar body weight to myself and we swapped bikes racing many times. If you get a perfect launch with both bikes, the hotrod Sur Ron pulls stock Zeros at full SOC% up to ~40mph, then the Zero passes it. I think my personal modded/hotrodded DSR would beat the hotrod Sur Ron everywhere in a race, but it's only raced against Farfles stock 2016 DSR so far.
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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 02 2018 1:39pm

The images work for myself a buddy, and I have them set to be shared/viewed by anyone with the link. I hosted them again in a different folder, maybe you can see them here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NGEVMPlws9iG47t52


Allex wrote:
May 02 2018 4:51am
Luke, the images are blocked for us, Think you need to open them up for public, thx
liveforphysics wrote:
May 01 2018 4:44pm
Stock BMS has 16 x 5mOhm surface mount resistors composing the shunt (0.31mOhm combined). We just doubled up each resistor and it's enough to get everything the OEM pack can deliver to a hotrod controller, and still has functional over voltage, under voltage, and over-temp protection. Soldering work looks awful because it's an aluminum PCB and our iron's weren't high enough power.

Image

Image
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » May 02 2018 2:22pm

So the ASI 8KW controller is plug-and-play for extra power for the SUR-RON? Also, even if you bypass the BMS 9KW limit, how can you ride the bike at 16KW with a 8KW controller? Also, can the motor really withstand all that power it wasn't designed for (IIRC it should be 3KW with 6KW peak stock)?

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 02 2018 2:42pm

If you check out the controller's datasheet, you will see 8kW is the continuous power of the controller, and it can deliver short-term power well over 20kW. The motor amazingly stayed under 85degC after many repeated drag race tests. Maybe something else will break soon, this is RnD hotrodding of a new platform that hasn't had it's limits discovered yet, but so far it's been taking it like a champ with thrilling acceleration. On a track with a rider with skills like Motomoto, this hotrod would already be fierce competition for any bike with any engine/motor size.

http://accelerated-systems.com/wp-conte ... -Sheet.pdf


racingame wrote:
May 02 2018 2:22pm
So the ASI 8KW controller is plug-and-play for extra power for the SUR-RON? Also, even if you bypass the BMS 9KW limit, how can you ride the bike at 16KW with a 8KW controller? Also, can the motor really withstand all that power it wasn't designed for (IIRC it should be 3KW with 6KW peak stock)?
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 02 2018 3:30pm

liveforphysics wrote:
May 02 2018 1:39pm
The images work for myself a buddy, and I have them set to be shared/viewed by anyone with the link. I hosted them again in a different folder, maybe you can see them here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NGEVMPlws9iG47t52
Got it now. Thats mad max, soldering on tom of the stock ones!

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pipeking   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by pipeking » May 02 2018 3:42pm

Hi Everyone, I just joined up here, from NZ.

I am looking at getting one of these, they are coming from Aussie, but I need to decide which fork (and quick, I only have a few days to put my order in..)

We are being offered the RST Killahs or the DNM-USD 8S

I have combed this thread for info on the DNM but other than a 'do not move' comment, not much info. Has anyone here used the DNM fork (8s I think is spring coil)?

sorry to barge in here and start asking questions, I'm really serious about getting one of these but yea, just want a good fork.. I ride DH and moto but this will just be for fun and maybe a little night time stealthy single track like the Greenstone or Caples :twisted: ...heh heh

thanks in advance guys!!!

also I'm thinking about buying an extra battery to extend my range, how much do they weigh??

CHUR :mrgreen:

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 02 2018 3:44pm

Yep, it wasn't pretty and it took an hour or more of soldering due to using a wimpy iron, but it's been a perfectly functional hack to get all the power from the battery the cells can offer.
Allex wrote:
May 02 2018 3:30pm
liveforphysics wrote:
May 02 2018 1:39pm
The images work for myself a buddy, and I have them set to be shared/viewed by anyone with the link. I hosted them again in a different folder, maybe you can see them here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NGEVMPlws9iG47t52
Got it now. Thats mad max, soldering on tom of the stock ones!
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » May 02 2018 5:07pm

So the picture is taken part way through the proccess and you need to add 16 resistors total?

And just to let you know, I am wringing my hands about hitting the dirt with this.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 02 2018 5:15pm

I used 16 resistors because it's what was laying around that would work. You could use any combination you like that yields a similar change in total shunt resistance. I'm super stoked to see you ripping a Sur Ron at its full motor potential!!
motomoto wrote:
May 02 2018 5:07pm
So the picture is taken part way through the proccess and you need to add 16 resistors total?

And just to let you know, I am wringing my hands about hitting the dirt with this.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 02 2018 5:45pm

liveforphysics wrote:
May 02 2018 3:44pm
Yep, it wasn't pretty and it took an hour or more of soldering due to using a wimpy iron, but it's been a perfectly functional hack to get all the power from the battery the cells can offer.
Allex wrote:
May 02 2018 3:30pm
liveforphysics wrote:
May 02 2018 1:39pm
The images work for myself a buddy, and I have them set to be shared/viewed by anyone with the link. I hosted them again in a different folder, maybe you can see them here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NGEVMPlws9iG47t52
Got it now. Thats mad max, soldering on tom of the stock ones!
Any plans on modding the stock controller shunt?
Just doing BMS/controller mod would be enough for many here, on top of this, it does not cost a penny!
Did you measure how much the stock controller sucks in amps? I dont have a clamp meter that can lock a value, a bit annoying that I cannot see the values during a ride with it. Stock cells can deliver 110A max, but the nickel strip are really under sized for such currents for longer periods

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by JuiceMeUp » May 02 2018 5:48pm

liveforphysics wrote:
May 01 2018 4:44pm
Stock BMS has 16 x 5mOhm surface mount resistors composing the shunt (0.31mOhm combined). We just doubled up each resistor and it's enough to get everything the OEM pack can deliver to a hotrod controller, and still has functional over voltage, under voltage, and over-temp protection. Soldering work looks awful because it's an aluminum PCB and our iron's weren't high enough power.
Hi Luke - A fine work-around.
Could you elaborate a bit more on what exactly you did here (where the bridges were made).
A photo of a napkin sketch would help a lot - Thanks.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » May 02 2018 9:17pm

WrongWayJefe wrote:
May 02 2018 7:58am
General question, do these bikes come with a vin number?0
They have a 15 digit frame number, its not a VIN.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fasjohnny » May 03 2018 6:58am

Hey guys

Im new to this forum but i have been following this thread. Finally the chinese companys is starting to produce quality products.

My Sur Ron is on the way to me and will arrive in around 20 days, im very excited!

Have you guys seen this custom graphics?
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 03 2018 7:52am

Here are the pictures Luke posted
SurRon BMS1.JPG
SurRon BMS1.JPG (112.01 KiB) Viewed 1276 times
SurRon BMS2.JPG
SurRon BMS2.JPG (86.72 KiB) Viewed 1276 times
This is the BMS circuit, which lives in the battery. I have to assume this modification will void the warranty.

Now, I wonder what would happen if you did the same kind of thing inside the motor controller? :twisted:
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 03 2018 1:32pm

Yep, like all hacks that enable pushing a system harder, it definitely voids the warranty. The OEM controller is potted through the whole area that includes the current sensors.

I'm sure the potting could be removed if someone wanted the hack badly enough, but it seemed like a lot less time and work to swap controllers, because the potting is something really hard like an ceramic particle filled epoxide base.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » May 03 2018 3:57pm

liveforphysics wrote:
May 02 2018 1:39pm
The images work for myself a buddy, and I have them set to be shared/viewed by anyone with the link. I hosted them again in a different folder, maybe you can see them here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NGEVMPlws9iG47t52


Allex wrote:
May 02 2018 4:51am
Luke, the images are blocked for us, Think you need to open them up for public, thx
liveforphysics wrote:
May 01 2018 4:44pm
Stock BMS has 16 x 5mOhm surface mount resistors composing the shunt (0.31mOhm combined). We just doubled up each resistor and it's enough to get everything the OEM pack can deliver to a hotrod controller, and still has functional over voltage, under voltage, and over-temp protection. Soldering work looks awful because it's an aluminum PCB and our iron's weren't high enough power.

Image

Image
Just out of curiosity, what are you growing?

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