Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 03 2018 6:41pm

Cannabis in deep water culture hydroponics. I lost my last grow a year ago to spider mites and haven't grown again since though. Hotrodding plants was fun though.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » May 03 2018 7:20pm

That's cool. I was thinking something like hot peppers. Looks like you took the question the way it was intended. Genuine curiosity.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » May 03 2018 9:49pm

Can’t wait to hot rod mine :) I’ll probably just wait for a pre tuned ASI controller, but the bms mod looks like cake.


Rode my 50cc ruckus all day yesterday and then hopped on the Sur Ron after dark. Both have the same top speed, but only one gives me grins from ear to ear. I have an electric scooter that out accelerates the Sur Ron with just a 12fet xiechang, but it tops out at 35. Probably would turn the tables with the Sur Ron regeared.

My only concern with hot rodding the bike is that I won’t be able to pass it off for friends to ride.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » May 04 2018 2:11pm

Threw the supermoto rear with 48t sprocket in today. Rollout measures 12% lower but only lost 6% top speed as checked by roadside radar. :mrgreen:


Definitely a keeper combo! I wouldn’t mind even more gear reduction.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » May 04 2018 5:03pm

So what's the general time frame for controller mods etc. to be released? Anyone know?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » May 04 2018 6:53pm

You could buy a bac8000 now if you want to tune it yourself.


I need brake pads, who’s got em or what’s compatible? Seems one of my rear pads is already hitting the backer. Since I am almost 100% front brake user and my front brake pads are still at 90%, I’m calling shenanigans. The rear caliper is not applying pressure evenly at all, looks like just one piston is doing all the work.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » May 04 2018 7:24pm

johnrobholmes wrote:
May 04 2018 6:53pm
You could buy a bac8000 now if you want to tune it yourself.


I need brake pads, who’s got em or what’s compatible? Seems one of my rear pads is already hitting the backer. Since I am almost 100% front brake user and my front brake pads are still at 90%, I’m calling shenanigans. The rear caliper is not applying pressure evenly at all, looks like just one piston is doing all the work.
Not gonna happen, I'm a total electronic noob. I was referring to Luna's (or others which would be better) development of mods. Just curious if timeframe looks like 2 months, 6 months, two years or ???

I like the bike as is. I'm not counting on anything.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » May 04 2018 7:37pm

Threw the supermoto rear with 48t sprocket in today. Rollout measures 12% lower but only lost 6% top speed as checked by roadside radar. :mrgreen:


Definitely a keeper combo! I wouldn’t mind even more gear reduction.
I just cut up sheet of 7075 for 58t sprockets because that is all I have sold, no 52t.

I am not making any more 52s for now. I might do a run of speed sprockets for the motard wheels.

What tooth count should I make?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » May 04 2018 7:44pm

52 and 58t sounds like great choices imo. Would equate to 38 and 34mph before accounting for loaded efficiency increase.

I was really surprised the 48t on 17” wheel didn’t top out at 38mph as the regear would suggest. Due to lower copper loss I would assume.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » May 04 2018 9:13pm

motomoto wrote:
May 04 2018 7:37pm
Threw the supermoto rear with 48t sprocket in today. Rollout measures 12% lower but only lost 6% top speed as checked by roadside radar. :mrgreen:


Definitely a keeper combo! I wouldn’t mind even more gear reduction.
I just cut up sheet of 7075 for 58t sprockets because that is all I have sold, no 52t.

I am not making any more 52s for now. I might do a run of speed sprockets for the motard wheels.

What tooth count should I make?
doesn't the 17" diameter Sur-ron supermoto wheel kit now available from luna include a 42t rear sprocket (and correct length chain) to make the kit bolt right on and maintain the same top speed as the stock 19" diameter dirt bike wheels..

reference:
https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e ... e-sur-ron/

the supermoto wheel kit would also be a good option for shorter riders since it will lower the stock seat height by ~1".. and you could also run 17" dirt bike tires (such as shinko 241 etc) on the supermoto wheels for off-road or dual sport use.. 8)
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » May 04 2018 9:55pm

johnrobholmes wrote:
May 04 2018 6:53pm
You could buy a bac8000 now if you want to tune it yourself.


I need brake pads, who’s got em or what’s compatible? Seems one of my rear pads is already hitting the backer. Since I am almost 100% front brake user and my front brake pads are still at 90%, I’m calling shenanigans. The rear caliper is not applying pressure evenly at all, looks like just one piston is doing all the work.
Any chance of someone showing how to tune their BACDoor software specifically for this bike?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » May 04 2018 10:13pm

motomoto wrote:
May 04 2018 7:37pm
Threw the supermoto rear with 48t sprocket in today. Rollout measures 12% lower but only lost 6% top speed as checked by roadside radar. :mrgreen:


Definitely a keeper combo! I wouldn’t mind even more gear reduction.
I just cut up sheet of 7075 for 58t sprockets because that is all I have sold, no 52t.

I am not making any more 52s for now. I might do a run of speed sprockets for the motard wheels.

What tooth count should I make?
Not true, I just ordered a 52t from you.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 04 2018 11:21pm

GPS logged 70mph running stock gearing ratio (slightly downhill road, still amazing.) This motor responds well to heavy field weakening on top end for big overspeed potent above BEMF and pack voltage matching point.

The hotrod is very quick, pulls even with FX up to ~40mph, but a stock DSR when both bikes get a clean start pulls on it slightly until 35mph and starts to run away.

Going to swap from stock gearing to 60t rear and it should pull even my hotroded DSR up to maybe +40mph, and still go fast enough for my off roading skills. It drinks its pack up in big gulps now, but the gulps are each pretty intense with its wheelbase and weight making its wheelies rise really fast to manage.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Blade59rt » May 05 2018 7:37am

Trying to decide what to do.....
#1.Buy the Sur-ron= bad ass/speed/out of box/etc. $3,400 roughly
Or #2. Buy a 3000w cyclone put on my fattire bike plus controller/etc for $2 grand less estimated.
$1,400 roughly. But looks more like bike/gears/pedals to ride home/less harassed by people. But then again parts bolted onto bike frame not really designed for an electric motor.
Tough decision....aghhhhh :roll:

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » May 05 2018 8:11am

Blade59rt wrote:
May 05 2018 7:37am
Trying to decide what to do.....
#1.Buy the Sur-ron= bad ass/speed/out of box/etc. $3,400 roughly
Or #2. Buy a 3000w cyclone put on my fattire bike plus controller/etc for $2 grand less estimated.
$1,400 roughly. But looks more like bike/gears/pedals to ride home/less harassed by people. But then again parts bolted onto bike frame not really designed for an electric motor.
Tough decision....aghhhhh :roll:
Being that I have done both, but not with the Cyclone kit, I say buy the Sur-Ron. Its better than any conversion that average enthusiast can build at home.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » May 05 2018 10:29am

GPS logged 70mph running stock gearing ratio (slightly downhill road, still amazing.) This motor responds well to heavy field weakening on top end for big overspeed potent above BEMF and pack voltage matching point.

The hotrod is very quick, pulls even with FX up to ~40mph, but a stock DSR when both bikes get a clean start pulls on it slightly until 35mph and starts to run away.

Going to swap from stock gearing to 60t rear and it should pull even my hotroded DSR up to maybe +40mph, and still go fast enough for my off roading skills. It drinks its pack up in big gulps now, but the gulps are each pretty intense with its wheelbase and weight making its wheelies rise really fast to manage.


I didn't want to reply to this first. I wanted it to sit on the bottom of the page. This is what it's all about baby.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » May 05 2018 11:30am


doesn't the 17" diameter Sur-ron supermoto wheel kit now available from luna include a 42t rear sprocket (and correct length chain) to make the kit bolt right on and maintain the same top speed as the stock 19" diameter dirt bike wheels..

reference:
https://evnerds.com/electric-vehicles/e ... e-sur-ron/

the supermoto wheel kit would also be a good option for shorter riders since it will lower the stock seat height by ~1".. and you could also run 17" dirt bike tires (such as shinko 241 etc) on the supermoto wheels for off-road or dual sport use.. 8)

Yes, the motors wheels do come with 42t sprocket and shorter chain. I put on the 48t to lower the speed and gain some torque.

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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 05 2018 6:08pm

You can get your speed back with field weakening if you want it, but would require controller swapping, or someone to figure out where to de-pot on the stock controller to cut the signal traces into the gate driver chips and current sensor signal traces and run a lebowski brain on top of the stock controller.

Even after miles of WOT in sand the stock controller stays below 40degC, so it may be possible to get more out if it, but it's a pretty big project and my workload right now is already 12-16hr days. If someone could figure out the first one in a week or two of work, getting the position data for where to drill for the traces needed would let it be cloned with maybe only a handful of hours of skilled labor.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 05 2018 6:25pm

liveforphysics wrote:
May 05 2018 6:08pm
You can get your speed back with field weakening if you want it, but would require controller swapping, or someone to figure out where to de-pot on the stock controller to cut the signal traces into the gate driver chips and current sensor signal traces and run a lebowski brain on top of the stock controller.

If I had one, I could get it x-rayed. At least locating the shunt might be good.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 05 2018 7:08pm

Perfect, thank you for the help!
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » May 06 2018 2:36am

Man the Sur Ron turns out to be a really surprise. I didn't think the motor would stand up to hot rodding after reading the very first reviews, and to now see people merry the motor with the powerful ASI 8000 controller was a really big surprise. I wonder what a dyno chart would show for such a combo? Is Luna going to sell modded bikes or mod kits using the asi 8000 controller?

For EU riders, is there anyone that are currently working on getting license plates on the Sur Ron? I know Artur from Vector promised to get road legal version of Sur Ron but it seems Artur has vanished in thin air, and he has left the building. So I wonder if any others are looking into getting either EU A1 (11 kw without top speed limitations) plates or moped 45 km/h plates on the Sur Ron.

What about people with good communication with Sur Ron? Are Sur Ron willing to comply and sell bike with needed paperworks to get the sur rons road legal in EU?

A few e-bike/e-moto high speed accidents over the past year have kind of turned the table for riding fast e-bikes on public roads in norway. People getting caught are now at the risk of loosing their license, huge fines and even getting their rides impounded. A bomber rider clipped a bicyclist on a pedestrian/bicycle only lane, according to eye witnesses, prior to the crash the bomber passed a car alongside the pedestrian lane, the car was going 60 km/h. The lady on the bicycle broke her neck among other injuries. The big fine and revoked license was not enough for the justice department, that case is going to trail. Guessing jail time as well. Stupid actions like that bomber rider has brought the wrath of the legal system om fast e-bikers.

After that accident and a few other involving fast e-biker, e-bikes above 250 watt/25km/h are not popular any more. Police will bring the law down on riders, if you ain't got motorcycle license and get caught riding the take your license away. If you do hold a motorcycle license they give you huge fine for riding a motobike without license plate and insurance, and depending on conditions when you got caught you can even loose your license, if ridden hard, fast, etc.

What I am saying I think the hooligan days with e-bikes are more or less over for us. We must now look at legal alternatives. Even at dirt tracks out in the woods the law can come down on you for riding without plates.
Last edited by macribs on May 06 2018 10:54am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 06 2018 5:30am

I'm hot rodding recreationaly to a single bike for myself and other experienced riders to enjoy off-road. Previously I spent a fortune on aftermarket parts to get another ~5-20% HP on ICE bikes, now it's comparatively effortless to double or triple the power on almost any well designed EV. If anyone wants to copy mods they are welcome to it.
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » May 06 2018 10:37am

So what’s the word on brake pads? One of my rear pads is worn to the backer now.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Fieldmatt8 » May 06 2018 11:03am

johnrobholmes wrote:
May 06 2018 10:37am
So what’s the word on brake pads? One of my rear pads is worn to the backer now.
I believe they are Avid Trail pads. Just ordered some and will confirm.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by stonezone » May 06 2018 1:32pm

motomoto wrote:
May 04 2018 7:37pm
Threw the supermoto rear with 48t sprocket in today. Rollout measures 12% lower but only lost 6% top speed as checked by roadside radar. :mrgreen:


Definitely a keeper combo! I wouldn’t mind even more gear reduction.
I just cut up sheet of 7075 for 58t sprockets because that is all I have sold, no 52t.

I am not making any more 52s for now. I might do a run of speed sprockets for the motard wheels.

What tooth count should I make?
I’d like a 68t (or close) please.
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