Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Jun 18 2018 9:35am

Aebrennan wrote:
Jun 18 2018 1:16am
For those interested check out the helpful file Luna has created for those not so well informed on the bikes.

http://electricmotorcycle.com/2018/06/1 ... and-myths/
I just read the link without paying attention to which website I was visiting.I just assumed it was the luna website. Now I see it was not.
3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 18 2018 5:56am
Hyena wrote:
Jun 18 2018 5:15am
macribs wrote:
Jun 18 2018 1:42am
I am not bashing Luna here, I got nothing but respect I just think some of the mythbusters might not be bulls eye dead center.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems electricmotorcycle.com is Luna up to their old tricks again - making a website thinly veiled as independent journalism when really it's a platform to promote their products ? There's no way the white ghost will be that sort of money. Their busted myths sound suspiciously like "nothing else is coming or it'll be crazy expensive, so buy now" marketing tactics. The silly thing is these bikes sell themselves on their own merits, they don't have to go the fake news route :|
Well put, and, is this not shady? The link no longer works, now says "Account Suspended".

I really want to love Luna, but time and time again I can't help but feel disappointed. They really have a chance to go big (while doing the right thing) and seem to be blowing it.
Well was that mythbuster site really put up by Luna? Why didn't they host it on their own domain if it was their write up?
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Hard to tell now if it was really a write up by luna now that the site is taken down. It could have been done by others as well.
Is the website where the write up was hosted the "one-ebike-website-that-is-not-independent"? The domain name seems to sit in the back of my skull but I can't really remember what that site was about.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 18 2018 11:46am

My electricbike dot com account is also suspended. I guess that sort of confirms that both sites are Luna...?

I see the sur Ron discussed endlessly on my Facebook feed. Pretty disappointing comments for the most part, and “costs too much” seems to be the biggest gripe. In my mind this bike is actually too cheap.

I ride dirt bikes competitively and I am just waiting for the right e-moto to enter the market, so I can sell the smokers and buy it. The Alta is almost there, zero is getting pretty close (to a trail worthy dualsport), and Ktm has its free-ride e. All of those are over $10k. Would love to see the sur Ron with a way better parts spec in the $6-8k range.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by WrongWayJefe » Jun 18 2018 5:48pm

As far as legalizing a sur-ron in the US, if your state doesn't require vehicles to be registered in state, you can register it in Vermont, all they require is a bill of sale or receipt. I believe there are other states (NV maybe?) that will do this also.

Here in PA, they require vehicles to be registered in state. I'm kicking around trying to try register it through the specially constructed vehicle process.

81forest, I agree about the Alta. If i'm going to pay > 10k for a dirt bike, it's got to at least be as good as an ICE bike. For me that would be 240lbs and about 45 miles of range of spirited riding. Hopefully they can hit those numbers in a couple of years.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 18 2018 6:25pm

WrongWayJefe wrote:
Jun 18 2018 5:48pm

If i'm going to pay > 10k for a dirt bike, it's got to at least be as good as an ICE bike. For me that would be 240lbs and about 45 miles of range of spirited riding.
THIS.

I don’t know if anyone watches the Erzberg Race, but this was the year that Alta actually got a bike and rider into the start line. It was going to be amazing to show that an e-moto could hang with the hard enduro superstars! But Alta dnf-d because they miscalculated their range and ran out of gas/charge right before the pit. WTF!! Their premier factory race team could not even figure out how to properly calculate the bikes range, in what was about the best PR opportunity to company has ever had. For anyone who was on the fence (like me), it was pretty bad optics. Hope they get it straightened out.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hillhater » Jun 18 2018 6:30pm

The "Mythbuster" site is working again now for me ?
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hyena » Jun 18 2018 8:22pm

macribs wrote:
Jun 18 2018 9:35am
Well was that mythbuster site really put up by Luna? Why didn't they host it on their own domain if it was their write up?
The articles alternate between 1st and 3rd person when talking about Luna. LOL
Obviously not openly declaring they are Luna is to hide the bias so people who stumble upon the site don't realise it's a sales platform. It's shilling 101
81forest wrote:
Jun 18 2018 11:46am
I see the sur Ron discussed endlessly on my Facebook feed. Pretty disappointing comments for the most part, and “costs too much” seems to be the biggest gripe. In my mind this bike is actually too cheap.
Yeah people who say it costs too much are clueless. Sure, compared to the Chinese 125-160cc pit bike which is most closely compares it's wildly more expensive, but compared to other ebikes and electric motorcycles it's well prices. Performance wise it's also in an inbetween space. For what it is I think it's good. No it doesn't compare to the full sized mx bikes you mentioned, but I'm sure they could add one of these to their catalog given time.
Would love to see the sur Ron with a way better parts spec in the $6-8k range
No doubt this would be a cracker, and easily doable for them. But it sounds like they're in a similar boat to Tesla though where rapid growth due sudden interest of a well priced product is causing them production/delivery issues.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by dirkdiggler » Jun 18 2018 9:08pm

Alta motors dnfd because he got lost in the trees. Took a wrong turn. They would have made the swap if not. Gassers have to pit too to refill. It's a 30km brutal race. I watched the video. They actually were in the top for a while. Normally only 30 riders finish anyway. It was there rider's first time ever there. They remapped the controller after the trials to help dial in the bike. Next year will be interesting. The electric has an advantage in that race, not having a clutch.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 18 2018 9:51pm

dirkdiggler wrote:
Jun 18 2018 9:08pm
Alta motors dnfd because he got lost in the trees. Took a wrong turn. They would have made the swap if not. Gassers have to pit too to refill. It's a 30km brutal race. I watched the video. They actually were in the top for a while. Normally only 30 riders finish anyway. It was there rider's first time ever there. They remapped the controller after the trials to help dial in the bike. Next year will be interesting. The electric has an advantage in that race, not having a clutch.
No doubt there is a learning curve to riding/racing enduros, especially Erzberg. I haven't raced any enduros since 1992, the Idaho City ISDE enduro/qualifier being my last race, but I imagine its only gotten more faster and more technical since my days.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by nicolasbv15 » Jun 18 2018 11:06pm

guys , seems like there is a copy of the sur-ron or someone purchased parts from sur-ron to built their model? , anyways here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbpHUI74Rlg it's called the Viar E-Cross.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 18 2018 11:10pm

nicolasbv15 wrote:
Jun 18 2018 11:06pm
guys , seems like there is a copy of the sur-ron or someone purchased parts from sur-ron to built their model? , anyways here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbpHUI74Rlg it's called the Viar E-Cross.
Its a Sur-Ron that has apparently been rebranded. Unless it is an identical replica. :lol:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by nicolasbv15 » Jun 18 2018 11:15pm

yeah @3DTOPO i believe it is so, i'm curious enough doe to actually know if sur-ron is selling part by part the sur-ron and would allow such re brand by a 3RD party company , I mean , shouldn't such a frame and combined technology be patented? Well if i was sur-ron i would definitely take action to fix this situation...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 18 2018 11:19pm

nicolasbv15 wrote:
Jun 18 2018 11:15pm
yeah @3DTOPO i believe it is so, i'm curious enough doe to actually know if sur-ron is selling part by part the sur-ron and would allow such re brand by a 3RD party company , I mean , shouldn't such a frame and combined technology be patented? Well if i was sur-ron i would definitely take action to fix this situation...
By no means do I practice international law, but I suppose nothing could prevent them from slapping on a couple mudguards and logo stickers and selling it as their own. absolutely shameful, but I doubt its illegal.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hyena » Jun 18 2018 11:48pm

Yeah I'd say just rebranding - can't really be illegal as car manufacturers have been doing it for years.
They went to a fair length though, even putting a little carbon sticker over the speedo display so you can't see where it says surron! I'm guessing they also painted the machined face of the controller that says surron on it black so it's more subtle.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ppsetiawan » Jun 19 2018 1:20am

nicolasbv15 wrote:
Jun 18 2018 11:06pm
guys , seems like there is a copy of the sur-ron or someone purchased parts from sur-ron to built their model? , anyways here is the video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbpHUI74Rlg it's called the Viar E-Cross.
Hi, i'm new here. PT Triangle Motorindo is company in Indonesia which have assembly plant for most motorcycle they bought from china.
And they brand it with "Viar". They plan to bring Sur-On/Viar E-Cross to Indonesian market in Q3-Q4 2018.

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US E-Bike Import Hit by ‘War On Trade’ With China

Post by urbanmoto » Jun 19 2018 7:16am

The Trump administration included the import of e-bikes and bicycles on the lengthy list of Chinese products which will be hit by an additional import duty. The initial announcement of these tariffs was made last March as a part of a USD 50 billion program ordered by US President Donald Trump.

http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations ... 4A05CA4YI4
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 19 2018 9:41am

:idea:
dirkdiggler wrote:
Jun 18 2018 9:08pm
Alta motors dnfd because he got lost in the trees. Took a wrong turn. They would have made the swap if not. Gassers have to pit too to refill. It's a 30km brutal race. I watched the video. They actually were in the top for a while. Normally only 30 riders finish anyway. It was there rider's first time ever there. They remapped the controller after the trials to help dial in the bike. Next year will be interesting. The electric has an advantage in that race, not having a clutch.
No doubt that team Alta was doing great; their qualifying ride was unbelievable. I was so bummed that Lyndon did not get to race. It’s just terrible that the dnf happened happened because the bike ran out of charge. Just not quite ready for prime time if you can’t estimate your range on an enduro bike. Taking a wrong turn in the woods is something that happens to me every time I ride.

I disagree about the advantage of not having a clutch; most of the top guys have a trials background and use the clutch constantly. No way Graham Jarvis is using a rekluse, although he could if he wanted. I think the big advantage for electric bikes is not having to rejet with altitude.

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macribs   1.21 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Jun 19 2018 10:45am

Hm what race was this? Any videos of the qualifying?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 19 2018 11:52am

macribs wrote:
Jun 19 2018 10:45am
Hm what race was this? Any videos of the qualifying?
Erzberg rodeo, it is an insanely difficult enduro in Austria. I will stop derailing the Sur-Ron thread after this post, I promise :?

Short video with Ty Tremaine ripping it up. There’s hardly ever an American that even has a chance at top ten, this year had Ty and Cody Webb looking really strong, but neither finished :(
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y4NXc3je9JA

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 19 2018 12:00pm

I disagree about the advantage of not having a clutch; most of the top guys have a trials background and use the clutch constantly. No way Graham Jarvis is using a rekluse, although he could if he wanted. I think the big advantage for electric bikes is not having to rejet with altitude.
Clutch slipping is a technical skill and not having to deal with that is advantageous in certain circumstances, hence the Rekluse clutch to prove my point. I can't believe how much quicker and easier it was to ride fast in tight technical terrain with the Rekluse on my old XCF450. Don't want to shift, leave it in the gear of your choice and just control throttle. WAIT, kind of like riding electric bikes :?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » Jun 19 2018 12:48pm

People talk lots about how critical it is to have a clutch, right up to the moment you give them an ebike to ride with adequate torque and HP, then they never mention anything clutch related again.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 19 2018 1:01pm

liveforphysics wrote:
Jun 19 2018 12:48pm
People talk lots about how critical it is to have a clutch, right up to the moment you give them an ebike to ride with adequate torque and HP, then they never mention anything clutch related again.
It’s not critical, and the rekluse is totally awesome, but there is technical stuff where a clutch still shines. There’s a reason that most pros do not use a rekluse. Trying to do a one-wheel pivot turn using just your throttle is not impossible, but it’s reallllly difficult because you can’t modulate the engagement like you can with your clutch.

But, a perfectly set up controller on an ebike might be just as good.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Jun 19 2018 1:08pm

I would have never guessed that Alta bikes are already there that they can actually compete in hard enduro.
Those races are insanely challenging for both the rider and the bike. And even if it enduro, with plenty of slower technical singel tracks and rock climbing there are also long steep climbs, WOT flat outs between sections where riders are on the throttle flat out.

Hey if they can manage to finish such a race more kudos to em. Look forward to see what they come up with next year.
Alta bikes already done well in Red Bull straight line and are starting to look into competitive motocross racing as well I've been told.

That Alta SM bike must be of of the most fun electric bikes legally on the streets these days. I haven't had the chance to ride one as I don't think they exist where I live but just be looking at videos I am sure they are even more fun then the Zero FXS and that is an amazing bike to ride.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Jun 19 2018 1:43pm

81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 9:41am
:idea:
dirkdiggler wrote:
Jun 18 2018 9:08pm
Alta motors dnfd because he got lost in the trees. Took a wrong turn. They would have made the swap if not. Gassers have to pit too to refill. It's a 30km brutal race. I watched the video. They actually were in the top for a while. Normally only 30 riders finish anyway. It was there rider's first time ever there. They remapped the controller after the trials to help dial in the bike. Next year will be interesting. The electric has an advantage in that race, not having a clutch.
No doubt that team Alta was doing great; their qualifying ride was unbelievable. I was so bummed that Lyndon did not get to race. It’s just terrible that the dnf happened happened because the bike ran out of charge. Just not quite ready for prime time if you can’t estimate your range on an enduro bike. Taking a wrong turn in the woods is something that happens to me every time I ride.

I disagree about the advantage of not having a clutch; most of the top guys have a trials background and use the clutch constantly. No way Graham Jarvis is using a rekluse, although he could if he wanted. I think the big advantage for electric bikes is not having to rejet with altitude.
If you are trying to convince people that batteries are as good as gas, do anything but run out of battery.

ALta redshift would be great but I'd rather have 3 Lightbees for the same price. (almost)

Surron white ghost shows a clutch.....

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Jun 19 2018 2:10pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 16 2018 8:36pm
Uran93 wrote:
Jun 16 2018 2:01pm
Another issue -
Sur-Ron is a great bike, but I have an issue with lower motor guard - it is made from very thin aluminum and bent already.
It is too soft almost like a peace of paper or cardboard.
Could you suggest who and where can manufacture stainless steel type of this part?Снимок экрана 2018-06-16 в 13.51.44.png
It's probably too thin to cast otherwise I could cast one for you.

I think your best bet is to design a file and have it laser-cut for you. It would take a rather trivial amount of machine time so it should be pretty reasonable cost. Then all you have to do is bend and weld it or find someone who can.
Dear 3D TOPO, thank you for your response. I don’t think thickness is an issue. It would be great to make it much thicker and stronger than it’s now.
There are some/enough room around the motor and for attachment points it can be aligned/bended accordingly even if it’s thicker.
What do you think ?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Jun 19 2018 2:11pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 16 2018 8:36pm
Uran93 wrote:
Jun 16 2018 2:01pm
Another issue -
Sur-Ron is a great bike, but I have an issue with lower motor guard - it is made from very thin aluminum and bent already.
It is too soft almost like a peace of paper or cardboard.
Could you suggest who and where can manufacture stainless steel type of this part?Снимок экрана 2018-06-16 в 13.51.44.png
It's probably too thin to cast otherwise I could cast one for you.

I think your best bet is to design a file and have it laser-cut for you. It would take a rather trivial amount of machine time so it should be pretty reasonable cost. Then all you have to do is bend and weld it or find someone who can.
Dear 3D TOPO, thank you for your response. I don’t think thickness is an issue. It would be great to make it much thicker and stronger than it’s now.
There are some/enough room around the motor and for attachment points it can be aligned/bended accordingly even if it’s thicker.
What do you think ?

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