Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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MrJellyBean   1 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by MrJellyBean » Aug 20 2018 2:15pm

I'm totally sold on this bike, I love it. Acquiring one in the UK is not proving to be that easy.

I asked Luna if they import to the Uk and they don-t import fullbikes. Looked at China and I've read about anti-dumping, I know this is technically a moped but that 83% import tax seems risky.

Started talking to a few UK motorcycle dealers and their price is up around £4-5k from the Chinese vendors £2300, which is understandable with the import penalties.

I notice Allex's store has them, being from the UK I assume would I pay the 46,000 SEK + Shipping?

So, anyone from the UK managed to acquire a Sur-Ron recently?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Aug 20 2018 2:52pm

Pinotman wrote:
Aug 20 2018 9:02am
For those of us in Australia, Volt Ebike ( Sydney based ebike business ) are taking pre orders for the legal road registered version of Sur Ron .. I believe the owner ' Johnson' has just come back from China and is advertising it's an exclusive Aussie deal Volt has done on the Sur Ron 'legal' version to sell in Australia. Not sure if this is correct and fair dinkum or not but their ad is now up on Gumtree for these bikes for anyone in Aussie land interested to check it out. I'm not sure if the other Aussie distributors of Sur- Ron will be selling this version??

Cheers
Nic.
Voltbike has been promising to sell the Light Bee for months on their website "Volt is getting the first batch around July".
It is August 21st now.
They are not authorised by Sur-ron and have no bikes or experience with the bikes.

A e-bikes has been the authorised dealer for Australia and New Zealand, since December and has factory backing just like the rest of the authorised dealers.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Aug 20 2018 3:30pm

MrJellyBean wrote:
Aug 20 2018 2:15pm
I'm totally sold on this bike, I love it. Acquiring one in the UK is not proving to be that easy.

I asked Luna if they import to the Uk and they don-t import fullbikes. Looked at China and I've read about anti-dumping, I know this is technically a moped but that 83% import tax seems risky.

Started talking to a few UK motorcycle dealers and their price is up around £4-5k from the Chinese vendors £2300, which is understandable with the import penalties.

I notice Allex's store has them, being from the UK I assume would I pay the 46,000 SEK + Shipping?

So, anyone from the UK managed to acquire a Sur-Ron recently?
We shipped two bikes to UK this summer for 200EUR/each.

Mithion   10 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Mithion » Aug 20 2018 3:41pm

https://goo.gl/images/di4eRz

This looks cool, seems like sand tires on the bike. Only seen these on what I think are UK based bikes???

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Mithion » Aug 20 2018 3:45pm

https://goo.gl/images/ncU1yH

Just put the supermoto kit on that and let me register it as an electric moped and I’ve got my new way to work and fun after! Love this bike!!!

MrJellyBean   1 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by MrJellyBean » Aug 20 2018 3:52pm

Allex wrote:
Aug 20 2018 3:30pm
MrJellyBean wrote:
Aug 20 2018 2:15pm
I'm totally sold on this bike, I love it. Acquiring one in the UK is not proving to be that easy.

I asked Luna if they import to the Uk and they don-t import fullbikes. Looked at China and I've read about anti-dumping, I know this is technically a moped but that 83% import tax seems risky.

Started talking to a few UK motorcycle dealers and their price is up around £4-5k from the Chinese vendors £2300, which is understandable with the import penalties.

I notice Allex's store has them, being from the UK I assume would I pay the 46,000 SEK + Shipping?

So, anyone from the UK managed to acquire a Sur-Ron recently?
We shipped two bikes to UK this summer for 200EUR/each.

Thanks for the info Allex, there are a few sellers I've spoken with in the UK but I'd rather deal with an actual Sur-ron reseller like yourself.

What would the total price be for a Light Bee shipped to the UK? I was just a little confused by the 'granted electric vehicle premium' in the description on your site. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by jaxwithanx » Aug 20 2018 4:16pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Aug 20 2018 12:48pm
macribs wrote:
Aug 20 2018 9:16am
Tbh if it was me I would pay Luna the money just to avoid the extra wait. Still lots of season left for riding, but if your bike takes 3 months to arrive things might look different and you might not get much out of this season.
Yeah, Luna has them in stock now, versus possibly waiting months to order one. And even though Luna hasn't published a warranty yet - they told me it would apply retroactively and I know they have been supporting the bike for the few people that have had a rare issue with the bike - versus being on your own.

Also, I could be wrong, but wouldn't you also have to pay a 3rd party service to order and ship it to you? I also understand that shipping a huge battery has issues of its own.

If it was me, I would just order one from Luna. The ease of ordering, their support (plus eventual warranty) and because it would arrive in a week makes up for any potential savings in my mind.
I wish we all lived in a world where a company telling me to not worry because they'll eventually do something...as long as I spend my $4k first...made sense. But there have been some issues with batteries and controllers that definitely haven't just been taken care of in a simple "we provide a warranty" type way and the urgency with which support has occurred has been varied. I don't think that's because they are looking to do people wrong but there may be a scale and unexpected demand issue they are running into here....as well as unexpected amount of issues.

If a warranty was in place this moment and Luna was taking back and shipping out controllers and batteries within a couple day window then of course....an extra few hundred is well worth it. But as of right now, the only thing standing in the way is the complexities of international shipping....because the support side of things simply hasn't been there and there is nothing to point towards to try and bind them to support. I need to jump back into the gas China bike world and try to dig up importing knowledge again.

Ideally, Luna sits down and puts together a basic warranty stating at the very least dead controller and batteries will be immediately replaced within a certain time frame. But until that happens....plenty will sit on the sidelines (including me). Regardless, it won't take long for a bigger company like CSC to see the market and setup their own bike. Honestly, that's the ideal situation in my mind. CSC is rock solid in the gas China bike world and just released their own electric Grom.

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Jonathan1981   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Aug 20 2018 8:59pm

Offroader wrote:
Aug 19 2018 7:43am
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 19 2018 1:30am
I've read all 74 pages of this thread. I'm so amazed.... should I pull the trigger or what? is it worth it? what are some of the first mods I should look into doing when it arrives?
At this price yes it is worth it. It is ridiculously cheap for what you get, nothing else can compete with this, not even close. This bike would cost $10K+ if made anyplace else but china.
I want to get one just to put in my living room as a display piece it is that cheap, lol, joke.

This bike has basically made all our hub motored bikes obsolete. It also is built just right, almost like I built it based on everything I didn't like about my hub motored bikes.

It has a very good range, removable battery, mid drive, good rear suspension, modern looking frame, seems to be a beast to drive.
It also doesn't overheat easy like a hub motored bike.

It seems to be very reliable, this is a huge benefit because it took me a few years to build my bike to where I wasn't fixing something every ride. They seemed to have engineered this so that it doesn't fall apart on you.

Of course you have to consider if you can ride around with something like this without having issues with police.
Yeah, tell me about it, the chinese made something we've all been dreaming of for the past 10 years....espeically myself, being into frame design, I dream of cold forging, hydroforming etc. but it's SOOOO expensive and unobtainable for the hobbyist builder...

Yeah, like I said, read through ALL 74 pages, binged it over two days when I discovered this bike I was so entranced....I'm just in shock I'm JUST finding out about this now and it's been out for like a year or two it looks like... don't know how I missed this beauty. It's almost like a MAJOR advanced, yet still underground project, exclusive if you will......which is what I love about the whole design.... it's SOOOO pro engineered yet not from a MASS manufacturer like honda etc. This team of engineers is like us, only they had access to millions worth of funding lol... I always knew it would't take 50-100 million to make an amazing motorcycle....hear that Honda...better get with the program, times be a chang'n.. :P

Really appreciate the advice guys, I think this only serves to back up all the positive reviews I've been hearing... I love how you can get an amazing quick feel for a product these days with the internet/forums etc. the truth always comes out and well......the sur ron..is....a winner! Imma get one :)

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Jonathan1981   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Aug 20 2018 9:05pm

macribs wrote:
Aug 19 2018 10:09am
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 19 2018 1:30am
I've read all 74 pages of this thread. I'm so amazed.... should I pull the trigger or what? is it worth it? what are some of the first mods I should look into doing when it arrives?
Yeah pull the trigger on this bike, you will be pleased. Price alone dictates this is the bike to get. You can't even build a similar priced bike yourself even if you build it solely on used parts. Or you possible could if you have insane ninja purchasing skills, or sticky fingers like a thief. :lol:

Mods. That is not as straight forward as it might seem. What are your points of reference? What do you ride today? What kind of riding do you enjoy the most? What kind of actual riding will your sur ron do most of the time?

Some can enjoy the bike stock without any issues, other don't like the brakes. Swap out for better suspension. Upgrade controller. It all depends on how you will be using your new bike. And you might not even know for sure yet before you actually have ridden the bike a few weeks then you can more easily see what you adore and what if any changes you feel is mandatory.

Thanks for feedback.

For sure, def will get some stock riding in first but I forsee riser bars, upgraded controller and possibly more teeth on back sprocket but that one seems controversial...

I ride tight forest trails, jump now and then, going to use the bike much like you would a mountain bike, so lots of mountain bike type trails (legal one's ofcourse, ton's of stuff locally here so no worries there)...

Suspension worries me a little, liking the rising rate rear link (I'm only 150lbs) but still I'll have to ride stock to see what's up...
I hand build frames for light weight gas bikes and I originally had used mountain bike suspension on a 140lb setup bike, but found it just wasn't enough for jumping etc. so switched over to full CR85 suspension setup with stiffer springs and that was a game changer...

So I have a feeling the suspension might not be up to snuff, however this is a lighter bike I guess @ 110lbs, seems like heavier riders aren't having issues with stock MTB/Pitbike shocks/suspension either so dunno...will see I guess..

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Aug 20 2018 9:21pm

So I have a feeling the suspension might not be up to snuff, however this is a lighter bike I guess @ 110lbs, seems like heavier riders aren't having issues with stock MTB/Pitbike shocks/suspension either so dunno...will see I guess..
I am 245# and the stock suspension is enough, however, I ain't jumping very high. On another note, I got Motomoto's newest 55T sprocket in and on my bike. Did a little road testing and I really like it. Off the line, when I whack the throttle, up comes the front wheel, just like it did with the 58T. Riding past the local police radar trailer revealed a 38MPH top speed (70% battery), the 52T will go 40MPH on the same radar trailer and the 58T would do 35/36MPH. Anyway, this weekend I will run the 55T off road and get some comparison feed back where I ran the 48T, 58T, and 52T. So far though, I think the 55T will be the king of performance, its got the snap of the 58T off the line, and pulls like the 52T does later on. Thanks Kim for getting me the custom sprocket.

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Jonathan1981   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Aug 20 2018 9:44pm

Rix wrote:
Aug 20 2018 9:21pm
So I have a feeling the suspension might not be up to snuff, however this is a lighter bike I guess @ 110lbs, seems like heavier riders aren't having issues with stock MTB/Pitbike shocks/suspension either so dunno...will see I guess..
I am 245# and the stock suspension is enough, however, I ain't jumping very high. On another note, I got Motomoto's newest 55T sprocket in and on my bike. Did a little road testing and I really like it. Off the line, when I whack the throttle, up comes the front wheel, just like it did with the 58T. Riding past the local police radar trailer revealed a 38MPH top speed (70% battery), the 52T will go 40MPH on the same radar trailer and the 58T would do 35/36MPH. Anyway, this weekend I will run the 55T off road and get some comparison feed back where I ran the 48T, 58T, and 52T. So far though, I think the 55T will be the king of performance, its got the snap of the 58T off the line, and pulls like the 52T does later on. Thanks Kim for getting me the custom sprocket.
10-4, keep us posted... sent a few questions off to Luna, hopefully they will get back soon, i'll be satisfied with the answers and well.... sur ron here we come...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Aug 20 2018 10:17pm

Also, any owners have any experience with parts supply, sourcing proprietary parts etc.? How does that work, do you always need to go through Luna?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 21 2018 12:33am

So I just got kicked off Luna's Sur Ron Owners group (on Facebook) - simply for engaging in conversation.

Apparently they only allow members that do nothing but kiss up to them. What a joke, and a hell of a way to treat customers. Their loss - I was only trying to help others in their so-called community.

Not only did they lose a good customer - I will no longer be sending customers their way.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Aug 21 2018 1:30am

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 20 2018 10:17pm
Also, any owners have any experience with parts supply, sourcing proprietary parts etc.? How does that work, do you always need to go through Luna?
The only thing you would need to get from Luna would be stock controller, motor or possible rear suspension linkage. Anything else you could source elsewhere. If you controller swap is done to get more power of change the riding dynamics you could even get your new controller from elsewhere. And as the motor seems to hold up well even with major power upgrades, the only thing you might need to get from Luna is rear suspension linkage, and if you take care of bushings, etc you will most likely not need to swap for a very long time.

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Jonathan1981   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Aug 21 2018 2:01am

macribs wrote:
Aug 21 2018 1:30am
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 20 2018 10:17pm
Also, any owners have any experience with parts supply, sourcing proprietary parts etc.? How does that work, do you always need to go through Luna?
The only thing you would need to get from Luna would be stock controller, motor or possible rear suspension linkage. Anything else you could source elsewhere. If you controller swap is done to get more power of change the riding dynamics you could even get your new controller from elsewhere. And as the motor seems to hold up well even with major power upgrades, the only thing you might need to get from Luna is rear suspension linkage, and if you take care of bushings, etc you will most likely not need to swap for a very long time.
um?

Lot's more to this bike than just that stuff dude...

seat and fender easily damaged in a crash (cuz imma ride this mofo)..... cables and connectors (will degrade over time and use) battery and battery parts (will there always be spare batteries available, who knows).......... that plastic battery cover etc. just to name a few.

but yes, lots of stuff is none OEM third party stuff..
I see there's a company in NZ wth a good list of parts for this thing.....but well.....it's NZ, I'm in Canada so shipping would be a biznatch....

https://www.aebikes.com.au/spare-parts.html

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Marksteamnz » Aug 21 2018 2:05am

Yeah, like I said, read through ALL 74 pages, binged it over two days when I discovered this bike I was so entranced....I'm just in shock I'm JUST finding out about this now and it's been out for like a year or two it looks like... don't know how I missed this beauty. It's almost like a MAJOR advanced, yet still underground project, exclusive if you will......which is what I love about the whole design.... it's SOOOO pro engineered yet not from a MASS manufacturer like honda etc. This team of engineers is like us, only they had access to millions worth of funding lol... I always knew it would't take 50-100 million to make an amazing motorcycle....hear that Honda...better get with the program, times be a chang'n.. :P

Really appreciate the advice guys, I think this only serves to back up all the positive reviews I've been hearing... I love how you can get an amazing quick feel for a product these days with the internet/forums etc. the truth always comes out and well......the sur ron..is....a winner! Imma get one :)
[/quote]

I have been having a look inside unbolting bits etc and what I like is the hidden detail is just as nice, its beautifully built. A friend was involved with selling high end Italian road bikes (rhymes with drilla) and the finish under the covers was "ordinary". Not on the Light Bee. Our wet an slushy winter here still riding and loving the bike.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 21 2018 2:08am

X Controller First Impressions
I am going to list what I think is best about the controller in order.

(1) Vastly improved throttle response. The difference in control is simply amazing. You can give it the tiniest amount of power with the X. Before, it kind of would jump if you tried to give it just a tad. Power delivery is also vastly improved - it’s just more powerful and zippy feeling. All around much more fun.

(2) Regenerative breaking. This is pretty much a tie for 1. Places where I used to have to ride the breaks all the way down, now I hardly have to use the breaks at all, and when I do, they are dramatically more responsive. Bonus of course is the energy is going back into the pack instead of wearing out my pads.

(3) Noticeably more quiet. Seems most evident when not giving it full throttle.

When I switch to a 58T sprocket, with this controller, I think it will be like a completely different animal as far as torque goes, and still let me keep the same top speed of 45mph (which is pretty much impossible to reach on the tight/lose trails around here).

A great upgrade, and highly recommend to anyone that enjoys riding their Sur-Ron.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Aug 21 2018 2:12am

MrJellyBean wrote:
Aug 20 2018 3:52pm

What would the total price be for a Light Bee shipped to the UK? I was just a little confused by the 'granted electric vehicle premium' in the description on your site. :)
premium is only granted for the locals here.
So the price would be 46k SEK plus 200EUR in shipping.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 21 2018 2:14am

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 21 2018 2:01am
seat and fender easily damaged in a crash (cuz imma ride this mofo)..... cables and connectors (will degrade over time and use) battery and battery parts (will there always be spare batteries available, who knows).......... that plastic battery cover etc. just to name a few.
As far as I can tell - they currently don't stock that stuff anyways. I begged them to order the seat from the X Model which was ignored.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Aug 21 2018 2:15am

3DTOPO wrote:
Aug 21 2018 2:08am
X Controller First Impressions
I am going to list what I think is best about the controller in order.

(1) Vastly improved throttle response. The difference in control is simply amazing. You can give it the tiniest amount of power with the X. Before, it kind of would jump if you tried to give it just a tad. Power delivery is also vastly improved - it’s just more powerful and zippy feeling. All around much more fun.

(2) Regenerative breaking. This is pretty much a tie for 1. Places where I used to have to ride the breaks all the way down, now I hardly have to use the breaks at all, and when I do, they are dramatically more responsive. Bonus of course is the energy is going back into the pack instead of wearing out my pads.

(3) Noticeably more quiet. Seems most evident when not giving it full throttle.

When I switch to a 58T sprocket, with this controller, I think it will be like a completely different animal as far as torque goes, and still let me keep the same top speed of 45mph (which is pretty much impossible to reach on the tight/lose trails around here).

A great upgrade, and highly recommend to anyone that enjoys riding their Sur-Ron.
Interesting. And reliability... any thoughts?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 21 2018 2:37am

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 21 2018 2:15am
3DTOPO wrote:
Aug 21 2018 2:08am
X Controller First Impressions
I am going to list what I think is best about the controller in order.

(1) Vastly improved throttle response. The difference in control is simply amazing. You can give it the tiniest amount of power with the X. Before, it kind of would jump if you tried to give it just a tad. Power delivery is also vastly improved - it’s just more powerful and zippy feeling. All around much more fun.

(2) Regenerative breaking. This is pretty much a tie for 1. Places where I used to have to ride the breaks all the way down, now I hardly have to use the breaks at all, and when I do, they are dramatically more responsive. Bonus of course is the energy is going back into the pack instead of wearing out my pads.

(3) Noticeably more quiet. Seems most evident when not giving it full throttle.

When I switch to a 58T sprocket, with this controller, I think it will be like a completely different animal as far as torque goes, and still let me keep the same top speed of 45mph (which is pretty much impossible to reach on the tight/lose trails around here).

A great upgrade, and highly recommend to anyone that enjoys riding their Sur-Ron.
Interesting. And reliability... any thoughts?
Well I have only given it one brief night ride after I installed the controller tonight. But so far 100% reliable. :lol:

That said, I have nearly 600 miles on the bike (with the stock controller) in the last nearly 3-months and everything has been 100% reliable. Only maintenance has been lubing the chain and tightening the headset.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Aug 21 2018 8:15am

Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 21 2018 2:01am
macribs wrote:
Aug 21 2018 1:30am
Jonathan1981 wrote:
Aug 20 2018 10:17pm
Also, any owners have any experience with parts supply, sourcing proprietary parts etc.? How does that work, do you always need to go through Luna?
The only thing you would need to get from Luna would be stock controller, motor or possible rear suspension linkage. Anything else you could source elsewhere. If you controller swap is done to get more power of change the riding dynamics you could even get your new controller from elsewhere. And as the motor seems to hold up well even with major power upgrades, the only thing you might need to get from Luna is rear suspension linkage, and if you take care of bushings, etc you will most likely not need to swap for a very long time.
um?

Lot's more to this bike than just that stuff dude...

seat and fender easily damaged in a crash (cuz imma ride this mofo)..... cables and connectors (will degrade over time and use) battery and battery parts (will there always be spare batteries available, who knows).......... that plastic battery cover etc. just to name a few.

but yes, lots of stuff is none OEM third party stuff..
I see there's a company in NZ wth a good list of parts for this thing.....but well.....it's NZ, I'm in Canada so shipping would be a biznatch....

https://www.aebikes.com.au/spare-parts.html
Fenders, cables, connectors etc are not sur ron specifics, or at least they don't got to be. And that was my point, no need to get original parts if you can get either better price or better quality elsewhere. If your controller dies, you could buy a new from Sur Ron or Luna, or just any sine wave controller that fits your wallet, motor and power needs.

Very few parts will need to be replaced by original parts, so rather then focusing on all thinkable instances where original parts are needed I chose to focus on that the most parts will be fine from any vendor. Sure you can break plastic. But does it happen often? I've replaced one front fender, rear fender and seat from 20+ years of riding dirt bikes, atv, snowmobiles and utv. And I replaced due to sale of bike. I rode a couple of years with those parts plastic welded and they worked great. But to make it look clean I replaced plastic, which in the end didn't net me a higher resale value so I could have dropped it just as well. All other instances where solved with either duct tape, glue, or vacuum bagging with thin coat of fiber glass in the under side. Even a few snowmobile windscreens where fixed with fiberglass on the back, gentle use of sandpaper and some paint. A little trim of the windscreen so I didn't need to look thru it rather could look over it. Good as new and cost was next to nothing.

No need to throw away good money for new parts if you can manage without with some DIY work.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Aug 21 2018 8:35am

Does anyone know the part number for the charger connector? I'd like to use my cycle satiator to charge the sur Ron in my office, since it is fanless and can be set to charge to 85 or 90%, instead of 100% all the time.

Thanks!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Aug 21 2018 8:52am


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Aug 21 2018 9:21am

Allex wrote:
Aug 21 2018 8:52am
Think it is LP20
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89902&p=1358016&hilit=xlr#p1358016
Looks like it!
https://www.amazon.com/CNLINKO-Industri ... B0797CNVWD

I wonder what is on the 3rd pin... I'm guessing just temp sensor output, or maybe RS485 for communication to the charger? I have heard it won't charge if the battery is too hot.

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