Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Dec 26 2018 10:36pm

motomoto wrote:
Dec 26 2018 10:22pm
You motor heads should look at the data from ASI. It says a lot about the Sur-ron motor. 10 hp is all we are looking at maximum.
Yeah, with 20s there is some more power, but 10 hp is all we can expect. Which is double what we get stock.

It's interesting to me that the best numbers are at about 2000 rpm, which makes me think of variable torque converters and
what not. A 2 speed would be nice.
Seems like this kind of design could be less finicky and more bomber than a derailleur. More efficient than a chain too.

aspencreek   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by aspencreek » Dec 26 2018 10:46pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Dec 26 2018 1:40am

Besides, as I pointed out, I can keep up with 250cc bikes and have no need (nor is it really possible) to go faster. Aspencreek: how many CC's is the bike you came up on? I think it was around 200cc, right?
That bike is a 240cc 4-stroke. Not a rocket, but made for tight trails. The Sur Ron was surprisingly capable and did some pretty steep hills at a good pace. If it had been a slug that couldn't even keep up with a basic youth dirt bike I certainly wouldn't have gone ahead and bought one after testing yours.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Grantmac » Dec 27 2018 12:29am

motomoto wrote:
Dec 26 2018 10:22pm
You motor heads should look at the data from ASI. It says a lot about the Sur-ron motor. 10 hp is all we are looking at maximum.
Yeah, with 20s there is some more power, but 10 hp is all we can expect. Which is double what we get stock.

It's interesting to me that the best numbers are at about 2000 rpm, which makes me think of variable torque converters and
such. A 2 speed would be nice.
A 2 speed with 100% reduction would be perfect.

Wonder if an IGH could fit between the belt and chain instead of the jackshaft?

10hp would start to be interesting.

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Allex   10 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Dec 27 2018 5:33am

Offroader wrote:
Dec 26 2018 6:52pm
No luck with the rear fender :cry: , the fender failed on its first ride. It wasn't my bracket, it was the aluminum bracket on the fender that slowly cracked.

While it worked it was really nice being able to ride over anything and get almost no mud thrown up all over your back. I would say it stopped about 98% of the mud in the rear. It seemed a few drops got by the fender when riding in really wet and muddy dirt.

The fender was also kind of annoying in that it did make some noise when riding over stuff, it was too long I think to not be supported on both sides. I see that its going to take much planning to make a fender that looks good, blocks most mud, and is very stable.

I normally don't use fenders as I mostly ride in the summer where one is not needed. At this point I'm just going to wait to see what someone else comes out with for the bike.

Image
Just swap the bracket to a steel one. Thin Alu is never good where you have flex and vibrations.

freeflow   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by freeflow » Dec 27 2018 7:49am

Allex wrote:
Dec 26 2018 12:30pm
I really wish SurRon would make a bigger version of their bike
Coming!
Allex, it sounds like you have more information. You can't just say coming, what do you know? :D

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Dec 27 2018 10:36am

Allex wrote:
Dec 26 2018 12:30pm
I really wish SurRon would make a bigger version of their bike
Coming!
:bigthumb:

Grantmac   10 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Grantmac » Dec 27 2018 2:57pm

Offroader wrote:
Dec 26 2018 6:52pm
No luck with the rear fender :cry: , the fender failed on its first ride. It wasn't my bracket, it was the aluminum bracket on the fender that slowly cracked.

While it worked it was really nice being able to ride over anything and get almost no mud thrown up all over your back. I would say it stopped about 98% of the mud in the rear. It seemed a few drops got by the fender when riding in really wet and muddy dirt.

The fender was also kind of annoying in that it did make some noise when riding over stuff, it was too long I think to not be supported on both sides. I see that its going to take much planning to make a fender that looks good, blocks most mud, and is very stable.

I normally don't use fenders as I mostly ride in the summer where one is not needed. At this point I'm just going to wait to see what someone else comes out with for the bike.

Image
Can you make a bracket to extend the fender from the seat? I don't think any swingarm mount will work with a fender that long, plus you are adding unsprung weight.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Dec 27 2018 3:11pm

Offroader wrote:
Dec 26 2018 6:52pm
No luck with the rear fender :cry: , the fender failed on its first ride. It wasn't my bracket, it was the aluminum bracket on the fender that slowly cracked.

While it worked it was really nice being able to ride over anything and get almost no mud thrown up all over your back. I would say it stopped about 98% of the mud in the rear. It seemed a few drops got by the fender when riding in really wet and muddy dirt.

The fender was also kind of annoying in that it did make some noise when riding over stuff, it was too long I think to not be supported on both sides. I see that its going to take much planning to make a fender that looks good, blocks most mud, and is very stable.

I normally don't use fenders as I mostly ride in the summer where one is not needed. At this point I'm just going to wait to see what someone else comes out with for the bike.

Image
have you looked at mudhugger rear fenders? I think a few ppl are running those on here.. or maybe cut something similar out of plastic ??
example : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615&start=50#p1285596
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

StingerRUS   1 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by StingerRUS » Dec 27 2018 3:37pm

motomoto wrote:
Dec 21 2018 1:57am
It's exactly like my quality. I don't see a difference.sprocket.jpg
Just received 58 tooth sprocket form motomoto and put it on my bike immediately! Thanks motomoto!
Comparison.jpg
Made some comparison table
Table.png

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Dec 27 2018 3:45pm

Allex wrote:
Dec 27 2018 5:33am
Just swap the bracket to a steel one. Thin Alu is never good where you have flex and vibrations.
Good idea, however, the fender flapped around too much, especially the very end which was plastic, so I don't think I want to use this particular fender anymore.


Grantmac wrote:
Dec 27 2018 2:57pm
Can you make a bracket to extend the fender from the seat? I don't think any swingarm mount will work with a fender that long, plus you are adding unsprung weight.
I agree if you put any fender on the swing arm its going to be problematic because of the swing arm movement, as I have discovered. The end of my fender which was plastic would make a flapping sound because the end was like whiplashed when hitting things in the rear.

The issue with attaching the mud guard to the seat is that it starts to make the bike look like a dirt bike. I was looking for something a bit more conspicuous and smaller.
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Dec 27 2018 3:11pm

have you looked at mudhugger rear fenders? I think a few ppl are running those on here.. or maybe cut something similar out of plastic ??
example : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=74615&start=50#p1285596
This may be a good option as it looks really light weight. It would need to be plastic like this through the whole length. This may be worth looking into if it doesn't flap around on the swingarm and make noise.

At this point I'm leaning on not using a rear mud-guard and just not ride when the ground is muddy. What I found is the summer is never an issue as the ground dries within hours after it rains.

The winter takes like 3 days after it rains to be dry enough to ride without constantly riding through mud.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Dec 27 2018 3:59pm

StingerRUS wrote:
Dec 27 2018 3:37pm

Just received 58 tooth sprocket form motomoto and put it on my bike immediately! Thanks motomoto!
Comparison.jpg

Where do you order at?

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Dec 27 2018 4:05pm

Offroader wrote:
Dec 27 2018 3:59pm
StingerRUS wrote:
Dec 27 2018 3:37pm

Just received 58 tooth sprocket form motomoto and put it on my bike immediately! Thanks motomoto!
Comparison.jpg
Where do you order at?
sur-ronusa.com
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

artisanstone   10 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Dec 27 2018 5:33pm

motomoto wrote:
Dec 26 2018 10:22pm
You motor heads should look at the data from ASI. It says a lot about the Sur-ron motor. 10 hp is all we are looking at maximum.
Yeah, with 20s there is some more power, but 10 hp is all we can expect. Which is double what we get stock.

It's interesting to me that the best numbers are at about 2000 rpm, which makes me think of variable torque converters and
such. A 2 speed would be nice.
With this said do you still think the big controller is the way to go? Or is the bac4000 more proportionate? Did ASI have input on this?

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Dec 28 2018 12:06am

I think it was about $100 more for the 8000. We did talk about the 4000 and Martin said we should use the 8000

You are welcome on the sprockets guys !!

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ziltoid81   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ziltoid81 » Dec 28 2018 2:52am

Rix wrote:
Dec 27 2018 10:36am
Allex wrote:
Dec 26 2018 12:30pm
I really wish SurRon would make a bigger version of their bike
Coming!
:bigthumb:
we need specs

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Dec 28 2018 2:57am

motomoto wrote:
Dec 28 2018 12:06am
I think it was about $100 more for the 8000. We did talk about the 4000 and Martin said we should use the 8000
Maybe $100 more wholesale? It looks like the 4000 is going for about $550 and the 8000 for $799.

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Dec 30 2018 8:11pm

Looks like $250 difference. OK. We discussed it and decided not to do the 4000. Luna can do the 4000.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Dec 30 2018 9:33pm

Isn't ASI going to eventually make a custom controller for the Sur-Ron? Would it not be advisable to wait until they work on it?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Dec 31 2018 12:54pm

I couldn't find much information or conflicting information on the fastace BDA53RC rear shock, was it was designed for a motorcycle or bicycle?. For some reason the suspension seems really good on the Sur-Ron and made me believe that perhaps it used a motorcycle rear shock.

I did find on their PDF catalog, listing all their suspension components, and the shock is actually designed for a bicycle. It is on a small part of the page with their other DH fork and bicycle shocks. I guess this confirms it is a bicycle shock and must be tuned for a bicycle and not a heavier motorcycle.

Then the question remains if I put on a high end rear shock like the FOX DHX2, will that actually make a noticeable difference in the suspension? It is hard to imagine it will, but supposedly these high end shocks are suppose to be much better than a cheap shock like the fastace BDA53RC.


Image

I've also got my eye on this DVO emerald fork which I think may be the best fork out there right now for an ebike. I wouldn't pay $1700 for this, but I would possibly pick it up for around $1000-$1200 if it went on sale.

Image
Attachments
fast ace.jpg

Chilli P   10 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Chilli P » Dec 31 2018 7:38pm

Offroader wrote:
Dec 31 2018 12:54pm
I couldn't find much information or conflicting information on the fastace BDA53RC rear shock, was it was designed for a motorcycle or bicycle?. For some reason the suspension seems really good on the Sur-Ron and made me believe that perhaps it used a motorcycle rear shock.

I did find on their PDF catalog, listing all their suspension components, and the shock is actually designed for a bicycle. It is on a small part of the page with their other DH fork and bicycle shocks. I guess this confirms it is a bicycle shock and must be tuned for a bicycle and not a heavier motorcycle.

Then the question remains if I put on a high end rear shock like the FOX DHX2, will that actually make a noticeable difference in the suspension? It is hard to imagine it will, but supposedly these high end shocks are suppose to be much better than a cheap shock like the fastace BDA53RC.


Image

I've also got my eye on this DVO emerald fork which I think may be the best fork out there right now for an ebike. I wouldn't pay $1700 for this, but I would possibly pick it up for around $1000-$1200 if it went on sale.

Image
I don't have the fox shock but I'm pretty sure you'd notice the difference between the two. That's next on my list but for the time being I'm fairly happy with the std dnm rear shock on my bike. However the fork upgrade from dnm to marzocchi 380 forks was a major improvement in ride quality and jumps handling ability.

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Dec 31 2018 9:14pm

I have the same shock but haven't tried it yet. It does have more travel at 3.5" vs the stock 3" on the Fast Ace.

I bought it because I can remake the spring retainer end with the proper eye to eye length to balance out the 280mm travel
WP AER 43mm forks.
pho_bike_det.jpg
pho_bike_det.jpg (13.06 KiB) Viewed 2930 times

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Dec 31 2018 9:44pm

Offroader wrote:
Dec 31 2018 12:54pm
I couldn't find much information or conflicting information on the fastace BDA53RC rear shock, was it was designed for a motorcycle or bicycle?. For some reason the suspension seems really good on the Sur-Ron and made me believe that perhaps it used a motorcycle rear shock.

I did find on their PDF catalog, listing all their suspension components, and the shock is actually designed for a bicycle. It is on a small part of the page with their other DH fork and bicycle shocks. I guess this confirms it is a bicycle shock and must be tuned for a bicycle and not a heavier motorcycle.

Then the question remains if I put on a high end rear shock like the FOX DHX2, will that actually make a noticeable difference in the suspension? It is hard to imagine it will, but supposedly these high end shocks are suppose to be much better than a cheap shock like the fastace BDA53RC.


Image

I've also got my eye on this DVO emerald fork which I think may be the best fork out there right now for an ebike. I wouldn't pay $1700 for this, but I would possibly pick it up for around $1000-$1200 if it went on sale.

Image
Its not so much about the intended design MTB vs MC Suspension as is its about the valving to suite the rider and bike. I had Fox Suspension custom valve a mountain bike shock for single pivot Ebikes (FUTR Alpha) with my body weight running heaving hub motors with lots of un-suspended mass. The valve matrix they came up with was spot on and the best MTB and MC suspension I had ever ridden with only 8" of travel.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Dec 31 2018 9:44pm

motomoto wrote:
Dec 31 2018 9:14pm
I have the same shock but haven't tried it yet. It does have more travel at 3.5" vs the stock 3" on the Fast Ace.

I bought it because I can remake the spring retainer end with the proper eye to eye length to balance out the 280mm travel
WP AER 43mm forks.pho_bike_det.jpg
I like where you are going with this Kim.

Flykrisco   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Flykrisco » Jan 01 2019 6:00pm

Got my sur ron x version last month from luna cycles. I have a little over 100 miles on it. Only mods I have done is removing the brake safety switches and kickstand switch. I also instslled a direct mount stem. Im really happy with the sur ron over all but it needs more power for sure.

What are my options at this point in time.

All the mods I want to do are small. fenders, foot pegs, different front light, locking grips, but i need more power.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jan 01 2019 9:57pm

Flykrisco wrote:
Jan 01 2019 6:00pm
Got my sur ron x version last month from luna cycles. I have a little over 100 miles on it. Only mods I have done is removing the brake safety switches and kickstand switch. I also instslled a direct mount stem. Im really happy with the sur ron over all but it needs more power for sure.

What are my options at this point in time.

All the mods I want to do are small. fenders, foot pegs, different front light, locking grips, but i need more power.
to get more power out of surron you will likely need a new battery.. one built with higher discharge cells (more amps for torque) and or higher voltage (for speed).. and a programmable controller upgrade..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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