Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

General Discussion about large electric scooters and motorcycles and other things with no pedals.
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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jan 01 2019 11:02pm

Why would you remove the kickstand switch? That is such an important safety feature and I don't see any drawbacks to having it.

I accidentally leave the kickstand up all the time and thank god for the switch. I know on scooters I have ridden in the past that didn't have this safety switch caused me to start riding with the kickstand down too many times.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Flykrisco » Jan 01 2019 11:50pm

To get more power out of surron you will likely need a new battery.. one built with higher discharge cells (more amps for torque) and or higher voltage (for speed).. and a programmable controller upgrade..
[/quote]

I plan on running the asi controller when someone gets the programming down. I would rather just buy a battery and controller ready to drop in. Ive programmed controllers but i dont want to burn up the motor because of my programming error. As for the battery ive always run lipo conversions in my skateboards so im pretty sure I could figure something out.

As for the kickstand sensor I already ripped the wires out in some tall brush when I was off trail. I just wish someone had figured this stuff out and put it to market.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jan 02 2019 12:27am

Flykrisco wrote:
Jan 01 2019 11:50pm

I plan on running the asi controller when someone gets the programming down. I would rather just buy a battery and controller ready to drop in. Ive programmed controllers but i dont want to burn up the motor because of my programming error. As for the battery ive always run lipo conversions in my skateboards so im pretty sure I could figure something out.

As for the kickstand sensor I already ripped the wires out in some tall brush when I was off trail. I just wish someone had figured this stuff out and put it to market.
its happening.. surron has been tested up to 20s and the motor is capable of about 10hp with the right battery and controller..

Nucular controller, currently in development and being tested on surron and other motors has some auto detect features for ease of setup.. another controller option worth considering.. : viewtopic.php?f=31&t=75494&p=1411260#p1411260
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jan 02 2019 1:50am

Of course any motor is capable to do extremely high wattage or high voltage and amps, it all comes down to overheating and knowing when to back off.

You really need to put in a temp sensor if you are going to push more watts to be safe. You never know how hot this thing will get in the summer and climbing really steep stuff for a long time. The motor doesn't seem to get great air flow also.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by stonezone » Jan 02 2019 5:11am

I don’t know who started the rumor that the ASI is hard to set up, you’re going to detonate your motor.... blah blah. I got the 8000 probably close to 6 months ago. Set it up in one day and just keep tweaking the configs for fun. I was worried about throttle control beforehand but then one day after a month off the bike I rode the longest wheelie of my life. Seriously, just be smart, take your time and it’s no harder than a Kelly or lyen

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Sur-Ron
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RIP Bobarella

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by freeflow » Jan 02 2019 7:37am

Do you run with the stock battery? And how many amps?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jan 03 2019 11:57pm

I "sent it" on this jump on my Sur-ron. Just bragging. That is not me in the picture but Sun Tong from China at the first race of the National Supermoto series in Boise Idaho 2018
second double reduction.jpg

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Jan 04 2019 12:21am

What's the biggest 70/100 19" tire?
I got a Shinko SR241 3.5" (cut) but the 4 ply casing is too heavy and dead feeling for this bike. I'll try the Duro HF307 (cut) in 3.25 but it seems the only 2 ply tires are motocross style and labeled 70/100. I looked but 80/100 × 19" doesn't seem to exist.
So has anyone found a lightish rear tire that's noticeably taller and wider than stock?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Jan 04 2019 12:27am

motomoto wrote:
Jan 03 2019 11:57pm
I "sent it" on this jump on my Sur-ron. Just bragging. That is not me in the picture but Sun Tong from China at the first race of the National Supermoto series in Boise Idaho 2018second double reduction.jpg
What was your suspension setup at that race?
Last edited by Lelandjt on Jan 04 2019 12:35am, edited 1 time in total.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Jan 04 2019 12:32am

I'm running the Duro HF307 in 3.25x19. I like it a lot but haven't gotten it off road much.
It clears the chain and swing arm with no problems.
Img_0903A.jpg
Img_0903A.jpg (69.4 KiB) Viewed 2676 times
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Jan 04 2019 12:41am

fechter wrote:
Jan 04 2019 12:32am
I'm running the Duro HF307 in 3.25x19. I like it a lot but haven't gotten it off road much.
It clears the chain and swing arm with no problems.

Img_0903A.jpg
That looks like the same chain clearance as my cut Shinko 3.5". I wonder if it's any lighter. Can I see the kickstand side? Maybe I'll try the 3.0" Duro but what I really want is a 2 ply 3.25" version of the Shinko. Hopefully someone knows a hardpack motocross tire that pretty much fits the bill.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jan 04 2019 8:11am

Lelandjt wrote:

motomoto wrote:
I "sent it" on this jump on my Sur-ron. Just bragging. That is not me in the picture but Sun Tong from China at the first race of the National Supermoto series in Boise Idaho 2018.
What was your suspension setup at that race?
Stock with flattened steering head bearings after the landing. The front end was locked straight.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Jan 04 2019 9:17am

Lelandjt wrote:
Jan 04 2019 12:41am

That looks like the same chain clearance as my cut Shinko 3.5". I wonder if it's any lighter. Can I see the kickstand side? Maybe I'll try the 3.0" Duro but what I really want is a 2 ply 3.25" version of the Shinko. Hopefully someone knows a hardpack motocross tire that pretty much fits the bill.
Here's the kickstand side. Not the best picture but there is more clearance on this side than the chain side. The HF307 is quite a bit taller than the stock tire too. The rubber compound seems nice and sticky. It's about the same weight as the Shinko 2.75 x 19 I have on the front.
Img_0902B.jpg
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by skyungjae » Jan 04 2019 10:54am

Flykrisco wrote:
Jan 01 2019 11:50pm
I plan on running the asi controller when someone gets the programming down. I would rather just buy a battery and controller ready to drop in. Ive programmed controllers but i dont want to burn up the motor because of my programming error. As for the battery ive always run lipo conversions in my skateboards so im pretty sure I could figure something out.

As for the kickstand sensor I already ripped the wires out in some tall brush when I was off trail. I just wish someone had figured this stuff out and put it to market.
You can always reach out to ERT. They set up my ASI and it runs flawlessly.

The bike's top speed increased by 5mph and overall acceleration is much smoother and I feel I have noticeably more power on the bottom end.

ERT was planning to build a plug n play type kit like they have for their BBSHD, but I'm not sure if that's still moving forward. The weak link in unlocking more power is the battery and the BMS. Any more than 1% regen on my ASI will trip the BMS which is probably why the new X controllers got rid of it altogether.

ERT told me I should get a 60T eventually to improve the bike's overall performance. The top speed would be minimally impacted with the ASI.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jan 04 2019 11:40am

One thing I find annoying with the BMS is that once your battery gets around 20-25% and say you are riding up a steep hill, the bike will cut power as it must hit the low voltage cutoff and reduce power. Kind of sucks if you are going up something really steep as that loss of power will make you have to jump off the bike. I think the bike just drops power from sport to eco instantly but that is enough loss of power to not make the bike climb anymore.

I had the same issue with my Max-E on my other bike but I lowered the cut-off all the way down so there was no possibility of this happening anymore. I did this after having to jump off the bike like an idiot when a lot of people were watching :D .

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 05 2019 1:09pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Dec 26 2018 4:32am
...and if a 45HP engine puts out 20ft-lb at the shaft, I really doubt the 50HP Alta is putting out 42lb-ft at the shaft.
Missed this earlier. Here is link to a Dyno of the Alta MX and MXR in Maps 1-4. There is a lot of explanation in this 3 page thread. Worth reading. https://altaownersforum.com/threads/alt ... ified.158/

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 06 2019 12:12am

Rix wrote:
Jan 05 2019 1:09pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Dec 26 2018 4:32am
...and if a 45HP engine puts out 20ft-lb at the shaft, I really doubt the 50HP Alta is putting out 42lb-ft at the shaft.
Missed this earlier. Here is link to a Dyno of the Alta MX and MXR in Maps 1-4. There is a lot of explanation in this 3 page thread. Worth reading. https://altaownersforum.com/threads/alt ... ified.158/
Thanks! I guess I will have to register to view the charts.

I am trying to engineer a new Sur Ron swingarm (for a wider tire), but I don't really have any idea how much force the wheel axle is subjected to. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jan 06 2019 12:09pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 06 2019 12:12am

...and if a 45HP engine puts out 20ft-lb at the shaft, I really doubt the 50HP Alta is putting out 42lb-ft at the shaft.


Missed this earlier. Here is link to a Dyno of the Alta MX and MXR in Maps 1-4. There is a lot of explanation in this 3 page thread. Worth reading. https://altaownersforum.com/threads/alt ... ified.158/


Thanks! I guess I will have to register to view the charts.

I am trying to engineer a new Sur Ron swingarm (for a wider tire), but I don't really have any idea how much force the wheel axle is subjected to. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
The stock swingarm design is super stiff, hell the whole frame is, I didn't notice any flex. Also, when watching Luke's video of 34kw being pumped through the SurRon, there didn't appear to be any flex or alignment issues when launching off the line. This tells me the machine is atleast stiff enough to handle that much power. I think if you stuck with the stock trellis design, and scaled it wider, it would work great.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 06 2019 6:50pm

Rix wrote:
Jan 06 2019 12:09pm
The stock swingarm design is super stiff, hell the whole frame is, I didn't notice any flex. Also, when watching Luke's video of 34kw being pumped through the SurRon, there didn't appear to be any flex or alignment issues when launching off the line. This tells me the machine is atleast stiff enough to handle that much power. I think if you stuck with the stock trellis design, and scaled it wider, it would work great.
Thanks. I agree the stock one is great - I just wish I had an idea of the forces it was designed for.

I was leaning towards a generative design for it. That could potentially make a part that is even stiffer for substantially less weight. Plus I love how organic GD parts look! Here is an example:

Image

Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 06 2019 10:06pm

Note I pretty much have the stock swingarm worked out, which of course is what I need to base a new design from. Just need an idea of forces involved. :?

Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jan 07 2019 12:00am

Nice drawing.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 07 2019 12:16am

motomoto wrote:
Jan 07 2019 12:00am
Nice drawing.
Thanks!!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jan 07 2019 7:33am

I guess I am going to have to do something with a swingarm also, since I want to put a 16 inch rear tire on it like the bigger rear wheel in this picture. the front wheel is a 19 inch like the Sur-ron has on it already. A stock 85 (shown) is a 14/17 wheel size combo.
honda-cr85-big-wheel-motocross-bike-with-set-of-small-wheels-included-9947-1.jpg
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jan 07 2019 9:05am

I used to make billet swingarms and frames. The swingarm weighed 1 kg without hardware.
GP frame 1.jpg

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Jan 07 2019 4:05pm

RE: Swingarm Flex
My cut Shinko 3.5" tire clears the kickstand spring by over 5mm but under hard cornering it hits. The spokes are tight and it has 20psi. That's swingarm flex. I decided to find a smaller, lighter, less grippy tire that doesn't overwork the chassis so hard.

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