Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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ebikeguy123   10 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ebikeguy123 » Feb 01 2019 10:00am

Lelandjt wrote:
Jan 31 2019 1:42pm
ebikeguy123 wrote:
Jan 23 2019 8:07pm
]
I have Fox 40 and DHX2 10.5 x 3.5. Saint M820 brakes. Deity 80mm rise handlebars. Makes for a much smother ride and better handling. Gets rid of a few pounds as well. My back feels a lot better after a long ride.
The stock shock is 10.5x3.0". So your wheel is now goes deeper into the travel than stock. Have you removed the spring and checked clearance at bottom out?
Yes. Did some adjustments and using a 450 spring.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Feb 01 2019 5:29pm

What I would like to know is why would they use a 3.0 stroke shock and not a 3.5" stroke shock?

Was there a reason why they used a 3.0? Any drawbacks for using a 3.5" over a 3.0"?

Lelandjt   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Feb 03 2019 12:46am

Offroader wrote:
Feb 01 2019 5:29pm
What I would like to know is why would they use a 3.0 stroke shock and not a 3.5" stroke shock?

Was there a reason why they used a 3.0? Any drawbacks for using a 3.5" over a 3.0"?
I don't know why they used a 10.5x3.0 but it's a unique size. Every 10.5" shock you find is gonna be 3.5" stroke. My guess is the suspension leverage gets so low* that late in the travel that you'll never use the last bit anyway.

*If you look at the linkage it's quite progressive so more leverage at the beginning and less at the end.

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derb   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by derb » Feb 05 2019 5:46am

Does anyone know a European dealer who sells the foot peg bracket plates?

Paulflieg   100 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Paulflieg » Feb 05 2019 4:55pm

derb wrote:
Feb 05 2019 5:46am
Does anyone know a European dealer who sells the foot peg bracket plates?
Any dealer related to KSR. For example: Stefan Kümpel Bad Kreuznach ....

https://www.sk-bikes.de

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Feb 05 2019 6:25pm

the problem is that some of the KSR dealers told me that KSR acts like bitch.
do you have better contacts to ksr?
Replacement Parts? 58T + chain kit? X-Controller?

crazy_dave   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by crazy_dave » Feb 06 2019 8:19am

Hey all, new guy here. I will introduce myself when time permits but I have quick question I’m hoping someone can help me with.
I was able to get my hands on a Sur-Ron around Christmas time (2018). I saw all these great reviews about the X-controller so when they were in stock again at Luna I purchased one for $525. I have just finished reading all 124 pages and it looks like this last batch of x-controllers are not the same as the first. I mainly bought the new X for the Regen and the torque increase. I now see that the regen is not on the new controller and it sounds like the torque is not there either. I have not installed the new X yet so I do not know about the torque increase. Can someone confirm this please?
I guess the meat and potatoes of my question is….. should I keep the new X or should I try to return it?
Thank you all for your time,
Dave
It’s better to apologize than it is to ask permission.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 06 2019 9:02am

crazy_dave wrote:
Feb 06 2019 8:19am
Hey all, new guy here. I will introduce myself when time permits but I have quick question I’m hoping someone can help me with.
I was able to get my hands on a Sur-Ron around Christmas time (2018). I saw all these great reviews about the X-controller so when they were in stock again at Luna I purchased one for $525. I have just finished reading all 124 pages and it looks like this last batch of x-controllers are not the same as the first. I mainly bought the new X for the Regen and the torque increase. I now see that the regen is not on the new controller and it sounds like the torque is not there either. I have not installed the new X yet so I do not know about the torque increase. Can someone confirm this please?
I guess the meat and potatoes of my question is….. should I keep the new X or should I try to return it?
Thank you all for your time,
Dave
seems the latest Luna X controllers don't have much benefit over the stock controller, other than maybe a bit quieter and smoother throttle response with the X sine wave controller.. but the X controllers from Europe and Australia DO still have regen so maybe try sourcing a regen enabled controller from them instead.. or just wait it out for more options coming.. how much regen do you want because the X controller only has "slip regen" which won't be much.. supposedly the latest version of (usa) X bikes comes with a programming cable and Luna is working on programming options..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Feb 06 2019 9:17am

There seems to be a lot of conflicting information flying around about the X controller. Some actual testing would be nice.

For sure the X controller has sine wave output, which will reduce noise quite a bit. It has regen capability but how it's programmed seems to vary. I've seen reports that the BMS in the battery doesn't support strong regen, but this is not confirmed. Power wise, it seems to be about the same as the standard controller, but more testing would be good here.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

crazy_dave   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by crazy_dave » Feb 06 2019 2:09pm

I’d like to thank you guys for the replies.
1st. regen to increase battery life is not a big factor to me. I was more interested in the (braking) aspect to make it feel more like engine braking on an ICE bike.

2nd. So should I try to return the x to Luna (if that’s even possible) and wait for an aftermarket one like described in earlier posts? Or should I hold on to the X?
Can the X be (retuned)? Or did I just $500+ on making the Sur-ron quieter ?

My apologies if I’m not using the correct terminology, this is my first Ebike. But I’ve been riding and wrenching on ICE bikes (2T&4T), ATV’s, snowmobiles,, etc… since I was 5. So it’s been about 39yrs, dear God I’m getting old LOL but I still play like I’m 16.

The way I gage the value of my bikes is by how big my smile is when I’m riding NOT in HP #. And so far the Sur-Ron has me grinning from ear to ear. And for you moto guys on the fence about this bike Im comparing it to my trials bike ( Beta Rev3), woods weapon ( KTM 200exc plated), dual sport/ supermoto (WR250 X/R), trail bike (CRF230F plated and built), BMW (F650GS), rocketship R1- (186mph and still had a little more) You get the idea. The Sur-Ron is just a different way of doing the thing I’ve loved since birth, riding a bike.

Thx again for the replies.
It’s better to apologize than it is to ask permission.

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Marv1337n   1 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Marv1337n » Feb 06 2019 2:14pm

crazy_dave wrote:
Feb 06 2019 2:09pm
I’d like to thank you guys for the replies.
1st. regen to increase battery life is not a big factor to me. I was more interested in the (braking) aspect to make it feel more like engine braking on an ICE bike.

2nd. So should I try to return the x to Luna (if that’s even possible) and wait for an aftermarket one like described in earlier posts? Or should I hold on to the X?
Can the X be (retuned)? Or did I just $500+ on making the Sur-ron quieter ?

My apologies if I’m not using the correct terminology, this is my first Ebike. But I’ve been riding and wrenching on ICE bikes (2T&4T), ATV’s, snowmobiles,, etc… since I was 5. So it’s been about 39yrs, dear God I’m getting old LOL but I still play like I’m 16.

The way I gage the value of my bikes is by how big my smile is when I’m riding NOT in HP #. And so far the Sur-Ron has me grinning from ear to ear. And for you moto guys on the fence about this bike Im comparing it to my trials bike ( Beta Rev3), woods weapon ( KTM 200exc plated), dual sport/ supermoto (WR250 X/R), trail bike (CRF230F plated and built), BMW (F650GS), rocketship R1- (186mph and still had a little more) You get the idea. The Sur-Ron is just a different way of doing the thing I’ve loved since birth, riding a bike.

Thx again for the replies.

I'd just test the controller before returning it, maybe you've got lucky.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 06 2019 4:41pm

Marv1337n wrote:
Feb 06 2019 2:14pm
crazy_dave wrote:
Feb 06 2019 2:09pm
I’d like to thank you guys for the replies.
1st. regen to increase battery life is not a big factor to me. I was more interested in the (braking) aspect to make it feel more like engine braking on an ICE bike.

2nd. So should I try to return the x to Luna (if that’s even possible) and wait for an aftermarket one like described in earlier posts? Or should I hold on to the X?
Can the X be (retuned)? Or did I just $500+ on making the Sur-ron quieter ?

My apologies if I’m not using the correct terminology, this is my first Ebike. But I’ve been riding and wrenching on ICE bikes (2T&4T), ATV’s, snowmobiles,, etc… since I was 5. So it’s been about 39yrs, dear God I’m getting old LOL but I still play like I’m 16.

The way I gage the value of my bikes is by how big my smile is when I’m riding NOT in HP #. And so far the Sur-Ron has me grinning from ear to ear. And for you moto guys on the fence about this bike Im comparing it to my trials bike ( Beta Rev3), woods weapon ( KTM 200exc plated), dual sport/ supermoto (WR250 X/R), trail bike (CRF230F plated and built), BMW (F650GS), rocketship R1- (186mph and still had a little more) You get the idea. The Sur-Ron is just a different way of doing the thing I’ve loved since birth, riding a bike.

Thx again for the replies.
I'd just test the controller before returning it, maybe you've got lucky.
inquire from the seller their return policy on the product, once used returnability is probably much less likely.. also the seller should know which version controller was sold/ sent according to the date of purchase and maybe the serial number.. only the early version aftermarket X controllers from luna had engine breaking "slip regen" and luna removed mention of regen from their sales ad shortly after because later Luna x controllers and x bikes did not have regen engine breaking at all..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Feb 06 2019 10:03pm

525 dollars for the X-controller with the same power as the stock controller? I guess that white spray painted X on
the front is pretty cool. I'd buy one.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Feb 06 2019 10:52pm

motomoto wrote:
Feb 06 2019 10:03pm
525 dollars for the X-controller with the same power as the stock controller? I guess that white spray painted X on
the front is pretty cool. I'd buy one.
I could be wrong because sadly Luna has made quite a mess of the X-Controller - instead of selling the same named controller with vastly different features, they really should at least have different version numbers. It's really a shame they aren't more clear on this.

But anyways, based on all the reports I've read on the subject, it sounds to me that the newer X-Controller is a sine wave, has more power (compared to the stock controller) but is lacking regen breaking. Which I think is really sad since out of all the upgrades I've added to my bike, the motor braking has got to be #1 for me.

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skyungjae   10 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by skyungjae » Feb 07 2019 10:56am

I think the first person/company to make a mostly plug n play controller and higher voltage and/or discharge rate battery is going to make bank. These bikes have a lot of potential.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Feb 07 2019 11:18am

This is how you do a drop in replacement controller.
Thermo Nucular controller 24F
Maximum power 20 000W
Nominal power 10 000W
Voltage range 20-90V
Phase max 500A
Battery max ~300A

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=75494
Attachments
2019-02-07 16.44.13.jpg

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Feb 07 2019 1:51pm

Allex wrote:
Feb 07 2019 11:18am
This is how you do a drop in replacement controller.
Thermo Nucular controller 24F
Nice! Plenty of extra room in there and a really nice heat sink.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

Tommm   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » Feb 07 2019 2:01pm

Anyone tried shunting the stock controller? Thing has 36 fets...
Image

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Feb 07 2019 4:49pm

Tommm wrote:
Feb 07 2019 2:01pm
Anyone tried shunting the stock controller? Thing has 36 fets...
I'm sure it can handle more.

I like the bong in the background of the picture :wink:
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Feb 07 2019 8:09pm

Why can't anyone figure out how to do a shunt mod on the controller? Is there not a shunt?

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Feb 07 2019 8:13pm

Offroader wrote:
Feb 07 2019 8:09pm
Why can't anyone figure out how to do a shunt mod on the controller? Is there not a shunt?
Search the thread for Shunt. Search = Powerful :D

It sounds like it has been done, but questions abound if the BMS is up to it.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Feb 07 2019 10:33pm

Offroader wrote:
Feb 07 2019 8:09pm
Why can't anyone figure out how to do a shunt mod on the controller? Is there not a shunt?
It's visible in the other picture of the unpotted controller. But it's buried under the potting.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

captnshrms   100 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by captnshrms » Feb 08 2019 3:21am

fechter wrote:
Jan 21 2019 2:34pm
While the weather is rainy here, I've been busy working on a few things. I installed a hinge at the rear of the seat made from an old door hinge that I cut, bent and drilled. The front is held down by a really strong magnet that grabs a piece of steel bolted to the front seat bolts. The ends of the bolts stick out past the nuts enough to engage the holes in the frame so it doesn't slide around. Between the frame members, I wedged in a plastic box that came from an old power brick. This is just big enough to hold the tool kit and my registration papers. This raises the seat by about 2cm, which I can use since I have long legs.

Img_1021A.jpg

Also working on a secondary battery that rides on the rear. There is a piece of aluminum "GCX" channel bolted to the sub frame that holds the seat. There is a piece on the battery frame that slides into the channel for quick release. The pack will be split between the two Pelican cases and have a total of 16s, 12p of some old Panasonic DA cells I've had lying around for years. This should approximately double the capacity and also double the amount of current I can pull without tripping the BMS.

Img_1024A.jpg

Img_1025A.jpg

Img_1026A.jpg

Img_1023A.jpg

The secondary pack will be in parallel with the main pack ahead of the "Air Switch" circuit breaker. Connection will be via 8ga wire and a pair of XT150 connectors. The secondary pack will have a single port BMS so I can charge both packs at the same time using the stock charger and charge port.

Img_1028A.jpg

If this all works out, I should have about 50 miles of range and have the ability to run 2x more power. The pack is still under construction but I hope to get it up and running soon. The secondary pack won't be good for serious off road riding but is easily removed in case I want to catch some air. For the street and more sedate trail riding, I think it will work wonders.
This is amazing, any chance you might want to build another? I've got some battery upgrade money around, and this is the best setup I've seen for my application by far, when I need the range I'm almost always on the road, and carrying a second stock pack is ridiculous. If you aren't interested in building another, maybe I could bug you for a few more pictures? It's a beautiful setup.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Feb 08 2019 9:05am

captnshrms wrote:
Feb 08 2019 3:21am

This is amazing, any chance you might want to build another? I've got some battery upgrade money around, and this is the best setup I've seen for my application by far, when I need the range I'm almost always on the road, and carrying a second stock pack is ridiculous. If you aren't interested in building another, maybe I could bug you for a few more pictures? It's a beautiful setup.
Sorry, unlikely I would have time to make another one. I'm struggling to finish the first one. It has not be tested yet. Once I get it finished and tested, I'll post construction pics. My design is based largely on what I had available in my junk pile and could be improved upon quite a bit.

Partially welded half pack:
Img_1034A.jpg
Img_1034A.jpg (97.95 KiB) Viewed 3442 times
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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bigbore   10 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by bigbore » Feb 08 2019 11:26am

Allex wrote:
Feb 07 2019 11:18am
This is how you do a drop in replacement controller.
Thermo Nucular controller 24F
Maximum power 20 000W
Nominal power 10 000W
Voltage range 20-90V
Phase max 500A
Battery max ~300A

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 31&t=75494
it's my impression or the mosfets were on the other side of the pcb before the installation?

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