Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 11 2019 10:19am

That belt drive set up is so hot!!!

Are you willing to sell kits to other folks who want belt drive??

Allex wrote:
Mar 11 2019 4:20am
Allex wrote:
Jan 15 2019 3:33pm
After market, why would surron make that kind of stuff =)

With the help from Madin it looks like the next season for Light Bee will be very quiet!
I will start offering these quite soon. Dont ask questions yet, full disclosure will be made once we fully test this kit out!
So close now to finishing...This one has the same ratio as motomotos 52t with stock front sprocket. For me, one of the best combos especially when you have x-controller.
The belt is Poly Chain 8MGT 12mm wide.
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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 11 2019 10:43am

Thx Luke! Sure, the plan is to make it avail. for everyone so I will offer a kit

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bigbore   10 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by bigbore » Mar 11 2019 11:06am

Allex wrote:
Mar 11 2019 4:20am
Allex wrote:
Jan 15 2019 3:33pm
After market, why would surron make that kind of stuff =)

With the help from Madin it looks like the next season for Light Bee will be very quiet!
I will start offering these quite soon. Dont ask questions yet, full disclosure will be made once we fully test this kit out!
So close now to finishing...This one has the same ratio as motomotos 52t with stock front sprocket. For me, one of the best combos especially when you have x-controller.
The belt is Poly Chain 8MGT 12mm wide.
Beautiful! Are them made on a CNC machine?

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StagMC   10 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by StagMC » Mar 11 2019 11:38am

175g available now Limited stock
Shipping outside UK is not working on our website but send us a message and I will do a manual quote.
Stagmotorcycles.co.uk
bashplateweb.jpg
Bashplate1 web.jpg

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 11 2019 12:04pm

bigbore wrote:
Mar 11 2019 11:06am
Allex wrote:
Mar 11 2019 4:20am
Allex wrote:
Jan 15 2019 3:33pm
After market, why would surron make that kind of stuff =)

With the help from Madin it looks like the next season for Light Bee will be very quiet!
I will start offering these quite soon. Dont ask questions yet, full disclosure will be made once we fully test this kit out!
So close now to finishing...This one has the same ratio as motomotos 52t with stock front sprocket. For me, one of the best combos especially when you have x-controller.
The belt is Poly Chain 8MGT 12mm wide.
Beautiful! Are them made on a CNC machine?
Yup!

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Mar 11 2019 1:27pm

From Allex
Thx Luke! Sure, the plan is to make it avail. for everyone so I will offer a kit
Something I should have made, but you snooze you lose.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 11 2019 2:10pm

Yeah, I was constantly nagging at you making it though!

Lelandjt   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Mar 12 2019 11:48am

StagMC wrote:
Mar 11 2019 11:38am
175g available now Limited stock
Shipping outside UK is not working on our website but send us a message and I will do a manual quote.
Stagmotorcycles.co.uk
bashplateweb.jpgBashplate1 web.jpg
Email sent.

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Mar 12 2019 1:23pm

StagMC wrote:
Mar 11 2019 11:38am
175g available now Limited stock
Shipping outside UK is not working on our website but send us a message and I will do a manual quote.
Stagmotorcycles.co.uk
bashplateweb.jpgBashplate1 web.jpg
Would this be stronger than the aluminum aftermarket bash guards?

Do you guys think this will take a hit without pushing up at the bottom clips? I wish it had a little bit of extra reinforcement in that location as that is the weakest point by far.

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Mar 12 2019 9:35pm

Allex wrote:
Yeah, I was constantly nagging at you making it though!
That is true. My excuse is that I sold my shop and have been setting up a new one man shop with 4 CNC machines.

I made parts yesterday for the first time since the 1st of January. I will be making 55 tooth and 64 tooth sprockets in the next
couple of weeks.

ASI is finishing up the wiring and programs for the 8000 controller and then I will complete the package with mounting brackets
and covers and have a complete product to sell.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Mar 12 2019 9:38pm

motomoto wrote:
Mar 12 2019 9:35pm
Allex wrote:
Yeah, I was constantly nagging at you making it though!
That is true. My excuse is that I sold my shop and have been setting up a new one man shop with 4 CNC machines.

I made parts yesterday for the first time since the 1st of January. I will be making 55 tooth and 64 tooth sprockets in the next
couple of weeks.

ASI is finishing up the wiring and programs for the 8000 controller and then I will complete the package with mounting brackets
and covers and have a complete product to sell.
PFM!!! Pure Fuqn Magic!!!!!

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Mar 13 2019 4:02pm

Soon, in about a month, most of us in the northern hemisphere can start actually using our bikes with the warmer weather. Can't wait. I haven't used any of my ebikes since like November.

Look forward to the new controller and will have to figure out the best battery voltage to use with the controller and the belt drive, and build a new higher capacity pack for it.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 13 2019 5:40pm

Mmm too bad that I cannot test the bike outdoors just yet, but here is a inhouse run for you!
I totally love it and I would not manage this without Madin, thank you man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz4yXvuMhXo


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liveforphysics   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » Mar 13 2019 5:45pm

Beautiful belt drive setup!! Great video showing the sound difference too! Once you go belt it's hard to go back to anything else. I bet all the components combined together in that belt drive conversion kit weigh less than the mass of the chain alone, and have lower losses at all torque levels and speed levels (starts to get bigger gains as speed get higher).
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 13 2019 5:53pm

Nice to hear, yes... you could be right about the weight. Will compare it someday.
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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Mar 14 2019 12:05am

Sweeeeeeeeeetttttt !!!!!!!!!!!!!

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » Mar 14 2019 3:45am

Is this test with the first or X-controller? As with the belt drive (great upgrade BTW!) you can hear the whine of the controller/motor much better.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 14 2019 4:15am

This is the the "X"

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » Mar 14 2019 4:32am

Great work Allex :thumb:
Are you planning on designing a debris/stone guard at the rear pulley?
belt-drive-motorcycle.jpg

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 14 2019 5:05am

SlowCo wrote:
Mar 14 2019 4:32am
Great work Allex :thumb:
Are you planning on designing a debris/stone guard at the rear pulley?

belt-drive-motorcycle.jpg
Wow looks really cool, but this I will leave to some1 else =)

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by madin88 » Mar 14 2019 6:26am

Offroader wrote:
Mar 11 2019 9:54am
Future test results: I full throttled the bike up a steep hill and the belt snapped.
My friend lightly touched the throttle with his 8KW modified controller and battery and the belt snapped.
:shock:


just kidding, this was just a joke.
I have seen that people added a second, pre-installed replacement belt on zero bikes (wrapped around the swing near the motor and fixed with zip ties) and they were able to put it on without the need to remove the rear wheel (quasi tool free). I cannot say for sure if thats possible on the Surron, but if it turns out that it is you could do the same :)


For a street bike i always would prefer a belt drive, especially on electric bikes as it will reduce the noise a lot.
If you align and tension the belt properly when doing the converion, it should be a very reliable drive train.
btw: there is a smartphone app from gates to measure tension in Hz via the microphon so no special tools would be required.

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mbldc   100 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by mbldc » Mar 14 2019 7:55am

Great work Allex!
I have some experience with the Zero 14mm belt, and I fear gravel will be the main issue. Stones get trapped between Belt and pulley and may eventually perforate the belt. Looks like this (not my bike, courtesy of Zero Motorcycle forum :D ):
gravel1.jpg
gravel1.jpg (102.26 KiB) Viewed 1295 times
I had another Idea: Why not use Gates' Carbon Drive Bicycle System? It has a self cleaning ability with its open pulley design. I don't know about the maximum torque it can handle, would be interesting to know if the stock Sur Ron has enough torque to rip it.
Gates-Belt-Drive-Amsterdam-Upgrade-kitt.jpg
Gates-Belt-Drive-Amsterdam-Upgrade-kitt.jpg (18.64 KiB) Viewed 1295 times
Or maybe this system with its guiding groove does not tolerate any misalignment, which would occur with a rear suspension? The Zero belt allows for some mm movement..

Rodney64   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rodney64 » Mar 14 2019 8:50am

Allex wrote:
Mar 13 2019 5:40pm
Mmm too bad that I cannot test the bike outdoors just yet, but here is a inhouse run for you!
I totally love it and I would not manage this without Madin, thank you man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pz4yXvuMhXo

Thats just so much difference. Alex are you going to make these available for sale. What length belt did you use.

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Mar 14 2019 9:24am

Sure Rodney,
I will offer them and the preliminary price is 375USD including shipping.
Length is 1440mm
I have created a spreadsheet, so please - those who are interested, fill it in! Or just PM me.

Once I get 10 orders and you payed for them I can start the production, lead time is about 1 month
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Last edited by Allex on Mar 14 2019 9:52am, edited 2 times in total.

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by madin88 » Mar 14 2019 9:31am

Rodney64 wrote:
Mar 14 2019 8:50am
What length belt did you use.
Fortunately we could use a standard size for the 25/93T gearing. It is 1440mm long.

From my experience the best belt is the Optibelt Delta Chain carbon, followed by Gates Poly Chain GT carbon and the standard Gates Poly Chain GT (without carbon).
The reason i would prefer Optibelt over Gates is the smooth topside, whereas the belts from Gates are ribbed.

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