Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 27 2019 1:53pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 27 2019 11:18am

If you have the 17" supermoto wheel and wanted to use the shinko 241 tire. I would go with the 17x3.00 rear and 17x2.75 front tire size. Not sure if you would want a 3.00 in the front and even if it would fit, if it did fit maybe its worth using a 3.00 in the front also.
The Shinko 2.75x19 just barely fits on the front. Not sure how a 17" version would fit.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Apr 27 2019 1:59pm

How is the Shinko on the road?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 27 2019 2:40pm

n2mb wrote:
Apr 27 2019 1:59pm
How is the Shinko on the road?
I love it. Sticks like glue and much quieter than the stock knobby.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Apr 27 2019 2:51pm

top notch on street and hard areas.
woody, slippery terrain or cornering typical trial tire. -not that good-

best of both worlds have hybrid tires. the problem as alaways. they are not in typical surron/freeride light bikes sizes available.
Image: left to right: MX Tires, Trial tire, Hybrid tire.
mx tire- not nice on roads but grips as frock offroad.
trial tire- bigger height, good on street and hard terrain. sucks at cornering and woody,grass, lose grounds.
hybrid- compromise of both worlds.

Image

ill switching also from 19" to 18x1.85 tubliss with a Cst C-755 (i ride 80/20 offroad/Street)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by rcmonstermike » Apr 27 2019 10:43pm

Merlin wrote:
Apr 27 2019 2:51pm
ill switching also from 19" to 18x1.85 tubliss with a Cst C-755 (i ride 80/20 offroad/Street)
C755 is a nice tire(stock rear on Quantya track), but I haven't been able to find the 18x3.5 size, and don't want anything larger. I tend to avoid mud when possible, so the trials should work well for me.
Last edited by rcmonstermike on Apr 28 2019 8:41am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 27 2019 11:02pm

What size C-755 are you going to buy, the 3.5 or 3.0? Can you please weigh the tire when you get it and post the results here in the thread. 3.5" is just heave and unnecessary in my opinion.

I also avoid mud and wet weather, I try never to ride in those conditions, so harder to justify mx tire or even a hybrid, especially if the hybrid is a heavy tire.

The trials tire isn't bad off-road, maybe because I only ride in dry conditions and hard packed dirt. I really like the trials tire because they wear slowly on pavement since I do at least 50% riding on the street. Just to get to my locations to ride off-road takes lots of street riding.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jarik » Apr 28 2019 4:26am

Hello guys :)
I’ve read a lot of your posts and I am surprised not many of you are talking about any problems with sur-ron. After about 200km from new my surron stopped working in quite steep hill. I discovered the stock controller has burned out, in detail one of the 3 phase stopped working. I replaced it with new “X” controller. It is indeed more powerful and it has a light regen, thats good, but not 100% in my case.
Now in certain moments when riding cca 40-50km/h surron is running strange, as if I would be switching “sport” mode on and off fast. There is power, no power, power, no power..., I hope you u understand. But when I pull the throttle to accelerate it is fain again.
I am not sure what is causing this, I am afraid one of the phases on the motor could be also malfunctioning from the last incident.
Do you have any advice guys? Please, let me know. Thank you :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 28 2019 12:13pm

jarik, I believe not many people are having any issues because the bike is built well including the electronics and also because of the fact that the power is so limited on the bike.

I know of one other person who mentioned his bike seemed to get stuck in eco mode and he thought it was because of his motor overheating. This was posted recently. It was probably because of his controller overheating as there is no temp gauge in the motor that I know of.

I would honestly swap your controller out for another one and see if the issues still persist, if they do then its either the throttle or the motor at that point.

The other issue that may cause that is if your battery voltage falls below a certain point. I know my bike will quickly drop to eco if I'm climbing a hill if I'm low on battery voltage.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Apr 28 2019 2:17pm

rcmonstermike wrote:
Apr 27 2019 10:43pm
Merlin wrote:
Apr 27 2019 2:51pm
ill switching also from 19" to 18x1.85 tubliss with a Cst C-755 (i ride 80/20 offroad/Street)
C755 is a nice tire(stock rear on Quantya track), but I haven't been able to find the 18x3.5 size, and don't want anything larger. I tend to avoid mud when possible, so the trials should work well for me.
here in Germany you get the 3.5/18 for 50 bugs. its not a mud thing. i dont ride also in rain or wet conditions.
(i hope i can make alot of videos this year.)
Its the grip on gras or just riding thru lots of leafs and lose dirt. Coming from the big ebikes as offroader i rode the SR 241/244 for years.
with a fat ass hub i never did things what i can do with the mid-bike now.
I will give it a try. as always. this is the sphere :D find out what works. :D


Offroader wrote:
Apr 27 2019 11:02pm
What size C-755 are you going to buy, the 3.5 or 3.0? Can you please weigh the tire when you get it and post the results here in the thread. 3.5" is just heave and unnecessary in my opinion.

I also avoid mud and wet weather, I try never to ride in those conditions, so harder to justify mx tire or even a hybrid, especially if the hybrid is a heavy tire.

The trials tire isn't bad off-road, maybe because I only ride in dry conditions and hard packed dirt. I really like the trials tire because they wear slowly on pavement since I do at least 50% riding on the street. Just to get to my locations to ride off-road takes lots of street riding.
yea i weight all time everything =)
as i ride it on LMX and not on the surron i have 12Kg/26Lbs of air for making this bike heavy like a surron :D

you rode a 17" fat ass hub like me. the diff between a 2.75 and a 3.0 was huggggeeeee.
now as we can jump easy 1m in flats or riding stairs UP, even doing bit of trial stuff every piece of rubber between rim and rock give you additional
plush ride. My bike has now streetlegal 43.5Kg/96lbs. the 3.0 bicycle front saves another 2.5kg. i think i will add 2.5 to the rear. maybe it will work
and you dont feel it until you lift the bike over trees.
Heres a pic from another LMX guy who hast 3.5/18 on the rear and 2.75/19 on the front.

Image

does it look bad? i dont think so.
another (surron)guy has a really heavy monster on the rear. 100/90/19.
this thing was above 100mm width and he must shave the outer profile knobs. every time i rode behind him seeing that his tire eats every rock flawless made me envious. :D
that what i was searching what maximum fits until it touches the chain.
100/90 is too much
80/90 /90/90 - no offroad tire available
70/90 is just skinny for surron/lmx
3.0 - 3.25 - 3.5 /R18 ill try. maybe a 3.0 or 3.25 is plenty enough because the tubliss system. we will see.

as you said....dry and hard conditions the shinko 241 is the way to go.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Liu » Apr 28 2019 5:04pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 28 2019 12:13pm
jarik, I believe not many people are having any issues because the bike is built well including the electronics and also because of the fact that the power is so limited on the bike.

I know of one other person who mentioned his bike seemed to get stuck in eco mode and he thought it was because of his motor overheating. This was posted recently. It was probably because of his controller overheating as there is no temp gauge in the motor that I know of.

I would honestly swap your controller out for another one and see if the issues still persist, if they do then its either the throttle or the motor at that point.

The other issue that may cause that is if your battery voltage falls below a certain point. I know my bike will quickly drop to eco if I'm climbing a hill if I'm low on battery voltage.
I love all E-bike only with in Mid drive :mrgreen: . LMX Bike also looks like a very nice design, as official website of LMX said it's the best electric freeride on the market. So choose almost the same suspension system as SUR RON LightBee :lol:

I think it may be because the mass production of LMX Bike is relatively small level, so the retail price in Europe is too high 7800 euros :? Spending nearly twice the price of LightBee, maybe this is buying a feeling with European small studio style frame products.

The same lift
Image
Image

Different production lines
Image
Image
Last edited by Liu on Apr 28 2019 6:23pm, edited 6 times in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Apr 28 2019 6:00pm

yeah..the price is hard.
but 10-15 lucky guys like me believed in the project and paid 4333 only. :lol:
at the suspension: the killah isnt that bad. if i would not have my fox 40 from qulbix i had not replaced it. the DNM on EU surrons simply suck.
its weak and plushy as frock, even when you closed all options the fork offers.
the dnm on the rear is also not that bad. iam not sure yet if the progression is a bit too much. if i jump in flats the progression starts to early for me.
i could replace the spring but i have also an air shock + RC4 here for a try. i will see.
anyway ...if you come from fat ass rear hubs you feel even with DNM on the rear in heaven.

about the price lmx/surron....
whats doing surron riders first after killing the brake switches and maybe suspension?
searching for more power. stock battery limited to poor 85amps. controller with moah powaaaa.

if you calc a new controller/battery to handle the amps you can easy put 1,5k on a surrons price.

now you have only to wait untill LMX offers a 15% off and your have a similar price. except of the looks or the stock seat height.
my girl started on an LMX...but she is only 1.6m and felt not comfortable in the lowest position of the lmx frame. its a mans toy. seat height "Low" fits for me (1.8m)....the frame has a 2nd position mount to rise the bike even higher.

anyway. now she has a surron and loves it.
we compared so much things and i will make a comparsion video when i have time.
for her the surron is near perfect. except of efficiency and weight.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Liu » Apr 28 2019 6:16pm

Merlin wrote:
Apr 28 2019 6:00pm
yeah..the price is hard.
but 10-15 lucky guys like me believed in the project and paid 4333 only. :lol:
at the suspension: the killah isnt that bad. if i would not have my fox 40 from qulbix i had not replaced it. the DNM on EU surrons simply suck.
its weak and plushy as frock, even when you closed all options the fork offers.
the dnm on the rear is also not that bad. iam not sure yet if the progression is a bit too much. if i jump in flats the progression starts to early for me.
i could replace the spring but i have also an air shock + RC4 here for a try. i will see.
anyway ...if you come from fat ass rear hubs you feel even with DNM on the rear in heaven.

about the price lmx/surron....
whats doing surron riders first after killing the brake switches and maybe suspension?
searching for more power. stock battery limited to poor 85amps. controller with moah powaaaa.

if you calc a new controller/battery to handle the amps you can easy put 1,5k on a surrons price.

now you have only to wait untill LMX offers a 15% off and your have a similar price. except of the looks or the stock seat height.
my girl started on an LMX...but she is only 1.6m and felt not comfortable in the lowest position of the lmx frame. its a mans toy. seat height "Low" fits for me (1.8m)....the frame has a 2nd position mount to rise the bike even higher.

anyway. now she has a surron and loves it.
we compared so much things and i will make a comparsion video when i have time.
for her the surron is near perfect. except of efficiency and weight.
Wow, you are really lucky and look forward to your video.

Grüße

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 29 2019 12:00am

What is the best 26 inch coil fork for this bike? It seems like we are stuck getting air forks, if we want to buy new.

The only coil forks are for 27.5 and 29 inch bikes.

Seems like most people prefer coil if not for the weight in the biking world.

Ask your self this if your sur ron fork broke tomorrow what would you replace it with.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » Apr 29 2019 2:29am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 29 2019 12:00am
What is the best 26 inch coil fork for this bike? It seems like we are stuck getting air forks, if we want to buy new.

The only coil forks are for 27.5 and 29 inch bikes.

Seems like most people prefer coil if not for the weight in the biking world.

Ask your self this if your sur ron fork broke tomorrow what would you replace it with.
X-fusion rv1 has 26" models.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Overclocker » Apr 29 2019 2:54am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 29 2019 12:00am
What is the best 26 inch coil fork for this bike? It seems like we are stuck getting air forks, if we want to buy new.

The only coil forks are for 27.5 and 29 inch bikes.

Seems like most people prefer coil if not for the weight in the biking world.

Ask your self this if your sur ron fork broke tomorrow what would you replace it with.
here's my rockshox domain RC (yellow soft coil) 27.5 with 26x2.3 specialized butcher DH tires

Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Apr 29 2019 3:56am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 23 2019 1:44pm
wuhaichao443 wrote:
Apr 22 2019 5:34am
Share with you
Do you have a picture of the front of the bike with it installed. I do know lights make riding at night in the woods like almost riding in the day. The only issue is you will come up upon lots of spider webs at night and you will see them also as the lights reflect off of them.

Image

Image
Do you know how many lumens the stock light is?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Lelandjt » Apr 29 2019 5:56am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 26 2019 10:08pm
Thanks, I also want to build a 18x3.00 wheel. It seems like the 19" Sur Ron wheel slides out so easily and spins so easily.

What brand tire and brand rim did you use?
Why not mount a 19x3 or 19x3.25 tire on the stock rim?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Apr 30 2019 10:54am

https://www.jvmotors.nl/a-54458434/19-i ... 3-50-x-19/
k67 nice for semi offroad use .

I will try this Heidenau K34 on the street legal sur ron: 3,25 rear and 2,75 front
i use a 3x19 k34 on a vector bike and this tyres can handle 150kmh :bigthumb:
https://www.jvmotors.nl/a-35581793/19-i ... -x-19-k34/

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 30 2019 6:04pm

Tommm wrote:
Apr 29 2019 2:29am
Offroader wrote:
Apr 29 2019 12:00am
What is the best 26 inch coil fork for this bike? It seems like we are stuck getting air forks, if we want to buy new.

The only coil forks are for 27.5 and 29 inch bikes.

Seems like most people prefer coil if not for the weight in the biking world.

Ask your self this if your sur ron fork broke tomorrow what would you replace it with.
X-fusion rv1 has 26" models.
I was looking at more high quality 26" forks as an upgrade. The X-fusion is probably similar to the Killah.

The main reason I'm thinking about replacing my fork is because of the crunching noise issue I have and I have not figured out where the noise is coming from. This makes me wonder what fork will I get if I broke my fork already?

They do have forks that are dual 27.5" / 26". The issue with that is I want to use an 18" rim on the rear which will lower the rear of my bike by about .5". The last thing I want to do is use a longer fork to raise the front up higher. That may affect the handling of the bike by changing the geometry too drastically.

Even the Killah 26" forks have seem to have been replaced by 26" / 27.5" new version which is compatible with I believe both sizes. This will probably cause you to raise the front of the bike, which may not be good if you are reducing the height of the rear tire.

The issue right now is that 26" wheels are obsolete and nobody is buying anything 26" anymore. So we are not left with any high end 26" down hill forks. Sur-Ron really should have designed the bike to be used with a 27.5" fork in mind so that we have more choices. So Yes, our Sur-Ron bikes are technically obsolete :cry: , just like all 26" mountain bikes are obsolete now.

Looks like we will have to buy older 26" coil forks, which may be the best bet. You can get some good 2011-2014 26" forks in the used market and then upgrade them with aftermarket cartridges like avalanche. This is what I'm finding out in my research is the best bet right now for the best front fork for this bike.

Sur-Ron should then redesign the bike with a 27.5" fork in mind.

The one fork I have my eye on is the DVO emerald 26" inverted fork. I hear mixed reviews of this fork and it is an air fork. I personally would like to try out an air fork for fun. This fork helps reduce the issue of small bump compliance with an air spring by a negative spring, or something like that. The issue is there are not enough reviews of this fork and many down hill bikers seem to not like the increased weight which isn't an issue for us.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Apr 30 2019 6:24pm

If the forks are a little long, you can just slide them up a little in the triple clamps. Easy.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 30 2019 8:20pm

If it was only so easy then why would they sell two different versions of the same fork in 26" and 27.5".

I really don't know and need to figure this out.

They do have some forks that are made for both 26" and 27.5" and therefore must be adjustable. However, those are only a few forks that I'm not interested in.
Last edited by Offroader on Apr 30 2019 11:18pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 30 2019 9:10pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 30 2019 8:20pm
If it was only so easy then they wouldn't sell two different versions of the same fork in 26" and 27.5" if you can do that.

I really don't know and need to figure this out.

They do have some offerings that are 26" and 27.5" and must be adjustable. However, those are only a few forks that I'm not interested in.
you can adjust fork height some with the triple clamps , but.. depends on the head tube length, wheel diameter, and adjustment markings on the fork (some have internal butting and shouldn't be clamped outside the adjustment range).. however, "boost" axle spacing forks for 27.5 might not be quite as stiff as 20mm front axle standard for dh?? either way probably splitting hairs for most riders..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » May 01 2019 4:33am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 30 2019 6:04pm
I was looking at more high quality 26" forks as an upgrade. The X-fusion is probably similar to the Killah.
It is not. X-fusion stuff are included with some good mid range brand name bikes.

I've never seen the RST and DNM forks on anything else than the cheapest chinese enduro frames however.
But if you are hellbent on spending for the sake of it, don't let me stop you.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by madin88 » May 01 2019 5:21am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 30 2019 8:20pm
If it was only so easy then why would they sell two different versions of the same fork in 26" and 27.5".

I really don't know and need to figure this out.
Forks for larger wheels usually have more offset which will change the trail of the wheel.
If someone would adjust the mounting position of the crowns from a 29" fork it wont be the same as a true 26" fork.

If you would put a small wheel into a 29" fork it would have a very low trail and therefore bad handling (at higher speeds), which is basically the worst thing you can do for a bike capeable of speeds close to 100kmh.

Regarding X-Fusion, i have bought one of the 26" RV1 from the link posted here recently (about 380€ shipped to my door from Taiwan), and all i can say so far is that it has almost no stick-slip or stiction - even with some weight on it.
What i really like is the independent low and high speed compression settings which work MUCH better as on the latest Rockshox Charger 2 Dampers for instance. I could compare a Boxxer and Lyrik (the latest ones with debond air spring) with the X-Fusion and guess which fork i did like better :)
-> Don't listen to theire marketing bullshit and probably sponsored reviews and test reports from the internet!

I was also looking for a used 26" R2C2 boxxer (which are availale around 300-400USD), but now i would always take again the X-Fusion RV1 if you could find it for the same price.
The only downside is that it comes with a very soft spring and replacement springs cost around 60USD (i bought the extra firm spring).

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 01 2019 6:33am

I love my Manitou
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Dorado ... SwX2JcnA6a

They are basically half the price now because nobody wants to buy a 26/27,5" today. If you find one new for 500 bucks(they were sold on aliexpress some time) it is a steal so I bought two. No stiction whatsoever and ridiculously good compared to 888 I had before on my bomber.

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