Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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Joachim   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » May 22 2019 2:39pm

I am now Building a new battery for my surron to have more range. just a pack,cells in spacers/fiberglas plate/heatshrink and foam for demping.

What is wisdom...use 2900mah cells are go max for 3300mah/3400mah cells ?

The battery become 16S-18P ( maby 19P)

Cells i can use for the battery:
Panasonic NCR PF 2900mah 10A discharge. 52Ah-2995Wh
Panasonic NCR BD 3200mah 10A discharge. 57Ah-3280Wh
Sony US18650NC1 2900mah 10A discharge. 52Ah-2995Wh
Samsung INR18650-35E 3400mah 10A discharge. 61Ah-3510Wh
Samsung INR18650-30Q 3000mah 15A discharge. 54Ah-3110Wh

I am not a fan of the 3000+mah 18650 cells and the GA,s are way to expensive for a 10A max discharge cel.

I go with the good old Panasonic PF cells.
The battery i make is a 16S-19p/55Ah-3100Wh just for good range in the sport mode.
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Last edited by Joachim on Jun 01 2019 2:02pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 22 2019 3:52pm

If you are going to use 14P or higher, then I recommend the Sanyo NCR18650GA cells. I have used them for a few years on my hub bike, ran many tests on them, they have held up well and had very little capacity loss through the years, considering I run them as high as 8 amps per cell. The Samsung 35E may work out but I remember someone saying the 35E are not as good as the Sanyo NCR18650GA cells for our ebike power demand, maybe it had to do with the voltage drop on the cells.

I would say no to 30Q, especially since you are thinking of an 18p pack. You will probably never use all the amps the 30Q will offer and you will just lose out on capacity.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 22 2019 4:04pm

GAs are better than 35E, less iR and hold up better when it comes to capacity after certain amount of cycles.

Was at the race track all day, emptied a pack on the dirt track as well, love this belt thing!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 22 2019 4:24pm

Just wanted to review my new 2018 Fox Factory 40 Float suspension on my Sur Ron. Start off saying I am very happy with it.

My RST Killah fork actually may not have broke like I thought. I think the issue may have been I was not squeezing the front brake hard enough when rocking the bike, and the brakes were slipping a little and making the noise. I'll have to do further testing here. I have to really squeeze the brakes full force for them not to slip when just sitting and rocking the bike back and forth.

First the fork looks phenomenal. The Colors match my bike really nice, the fork looks very good with the thick 40mm gold stanchions. You have to remember that everyone eyes go right to the fork first, I know the first thing I notice on another bicycle is the fork and if its Fox I notice that immediately also. This fork has FOX in big orange letters, looks impressive.

Not only does this add bling to my bike like nothing else could, I am actually really happy with the way it handles. Its definitely not easily noticeable difference from the RST Killah fork. But everything seems easier with the fork when riding off road. It seems easier than ever to climb stairs with this fork also. Its not like going from a hard tail to a full suspension bike, but you will feel like its easier to ride through obstacles.

Another big noticeable difference is jumps to flat ground. I don't bottom out harshly anymore with this fork when doing the same jumps I did with my RST Killah fork and the landings are much softer. I think this is because of the nature of an air spring vs coil, it is much more progressive than a coil spring as you are compressing air. This probably makes it much better for jumps to flat ground, and jumping to flat ground is important because I like to do this a lot. I still do blow through all my travel but I don't feel a harsh bottom out anymore.

For all the talk about Air Springs suck, I think they are OK and have some benefits. One of the drawbacks I heard about is the small bump compliance, but its not really that noticeable.

That being said, unless you want the Bling and are pushing the bike to the limits, then the RST Killah fork is more that suitable. The Fox fork is better and makes everything easier to do, but its not going to make that much of a difference, especially if you are not taking high jumps, climbing stairs with the bike, or racing the bike. And remember the fox fork supposedly requires much more maintenance and oil changes.

Since this is a new fork with an uncut head tube, I decided to just throw on the Sur-Ron handlebars and not cut the head tube. I just used lots of spacers.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » May 24 2019 10:35am

Offroader wrote:
May 22 2019 4:24pm
Just wanted to review my new 2018 Fox Factory 40 Float suspension on my Sur Ron. Start off saying I am very happy with it.

My RST Killah fork actually may not have broke like I thought. I think the issue may have been I was not squeezing the front brake hard enough when rocking the bike, and the brakes were slipping a little and making the noise. I'll have to do further testing here. I have to really squeeze the brakes full force for them not to slip when just sitting and rocking the bike back and forth.

First the fork looks phenomenal. The Colors match my bike really nice, the fork looks very good with the thick 40mm gold stanchions. You have to remember that everyone eyes go right to the fork first, I know the first thing I notice on another bicycle is the fork and if its Fox I notice that immediately also. This fork has FOX in big orange letters, looks impressive.

Not only does this add bling to my bike like nothing else could, I am actually really happy with the way it handles. Its definitely not easily noticeable difference from the RST Killah fork. But everything seems easier with the fork when riding off road. It seems easier than ever to climb stairs with this fork also. Its not like going from a hard tail to a full suspension bike, but you will feel like its easier to ride through obstacles.

Another big noticeable difference is jumps to flat ground. I don't bottom out harshly anymore with this fork when doing the same jumps I did with my RST Killah fork and the landings are much softer. I think this is because of the nature of an air spring vs coil, it is much more progressive than a coil spring as you are compressing air. This probably makes it much better for jumps to flat ground, and jumping to flat ground is important because I like to do this a lot. I still do blow through all my travel but I don't feel a harsh bottom out anymore.

For all the talk about Air Springs suck, I think they are OK and have some benefits. One of the drawbacks I heard about is the small bump compliance, but its not really that noticeable.

That being said, unless you want the Bling and are pushing the bike to the limits, then the RST Killah fork is more that suitable. The Fox fork is better and makes everything easier to do, but its not going to make that much of a difference, especially if you are not taking high jumps, climbing stairs with the bike, or racing the bike. And remember the fox fork supposedly requires much more maintenance and oil changes.

Since this is a new fork with an uncut head tube, I decided to just throw on the Sur-Ron handlebars and not cut the head tube. I just used lots of spacers.

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Nice topic. Could you please let me know what else do you need to install it, besides the fork itself? Anything?
I’ve ordered the same from ebay and will get it next week.
Hard enduro trails and jumps, my only use.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 24 2019 6:18pm

You really would need nothing else to install the fox fork other than head tube spacers if you reuse the sur-ron headset. You would have to remove the crown race from your old fork, you would have to be careful, using a razor blade to start it and then slowly wedge larger stuff in there to lift it. Don't knock it out with a screw driver and hammer or you will bend it.

You could use a screw driver to wedge in the space under the crown race to help lift it after using a knocked in razor blade to start it.

I would recommend not to cut the head tube unless you like the handle bars really low. Just use head set spacers and you can then always easily adjust your handlebar to the best height. Then if you want you could always cut it.

I would probably recommend a new head set but you will have to improvise tools or buy a head set press to get it installed. Not that big of a deal but makes the whole project much more difficult.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by wuhaichao443 » May 25 2019 10:36am

srapy wrote:
May 15 2019 2:11pm
Did some testing with the Vesc 75/300 on my streetlegal Version.
Works fine with 14S 16ah Lipos (will be 32ah when finished) at the moment although the Vesc can handle 16S. Regen is now possible and because of FOC the motor is more quiet. App showed me 8,5kw peak at 300phaseamps. Not sure if these values are correct. I will keep on testing and trying to get more out of it :)
Hey, buddy!My friend wants to know, what brand is your fender?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by srapy » May 25 2019 3:54pm

Its a mudhugger rear fender with little customization.

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that1guy   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by that1guy » May 25 2019 8:39pm

Offroader wrote:
May 19 2019 6:12pm
Maybe someone can help me out also,

I'm almost done with my 2nd Sur-Ron charger. I am wondering why the Sur-Ron uses a 3 prong connector for the charger.

I can't think of any reason why they would use a 3 prong connector because unless its 4 prong to help split the current, there is no benefit. Is there some other reason why they used a 3 ?

Thanks, here is a picture of the Sur-Ron charge connector I am talking about.
Image
I took apart my connector. The third pin is not used.
Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by that1guy » May 25 2019 8:57pm

Looks like there are no practical options for 19 inch (rim size) street tires. Only thing I can find is the Avon AM6 Speedmaster Motorcycle Tire, 27-19 for $167 at bikebandit.com https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... 2&CRTP=psc :confused:
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I suppose this is why Luna offers 17inch street tires. More options in that size?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » May 26 2019 6:00am

that1guy wrote:
May 25 2019 8:57pm
Looks like there are no practical options for 19 inch (rim size) street tires. Only thing I can find is the Avon AM6 Speedmaster Motorcycle Tire, 27-19 for $167 at bikebandit.com https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... 2&CRTP=psc :confused:
Image
I suppose this is why Luna offers 17inch street tires. More options in that size?
These are the stock 17 ones
https://www.csttires.com/int/tire/c6577/
Nothing in 19, though.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » May 26 2019 7:07am

n2mb wrote:
May 26 2019 6:00am
that1guy wrote:
May 25 2019 8:57pm
Looks like there are no practical options for 19 inch (rim size) street tires. Only thing I can find is the Avon AM6 Speedmaster Motorcycle Tire, 27-19 for $167 at bikebandit.com https://www.bikebandit.com/tires-tubes/ ... 2&CRTP=psc :confused:
Image
I suppose this is why Luna offers 17inch street tires. More options in that size?
These are the stock 17 ones
https://www.csttires.com/int/tire/c6577/
Nothing in 19, though.
I have this on my sur-ron good for 180kph :lol: https://www.oponeo.nl/motorbanden-zoeke ... V3Gr8h3bGn

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by captain387 » May 26 2019 7:16am

I bought a 19" moped rim for my HS3540 hub motor, and then went on the search for 19" tires.... Thought there would be more selection.

I ended up going to the local motorcycle dealer and they found this tire, which would fit the frame (https://fortnine.ca/en/duro-hf301-front-tire). I have had this tire on my bike for 1000 km, still looks brand new.

Here are the other popular choices from this forum, https://fortnine.ca/en/motorcycle-tires/19_-2_75

I also have the Shinko SR241 and it gives the bike a nice plush ride, a little more rolling resistance, and a little tire noise.
If I did any off-roading, I would probably run this tire.

Light duty tires.

Treatland.tv
https://www.treatland.tv/SearchResults. ... 0brakes=56
04 Norco Atomik - Cycle Analyst - Hs3540 - 40amp Infineon Controller - 12s2p 5.8 Ah Turnigy Lipo
95 GT Timberline FS - Converted back to pedal only.

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that1guy   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by that1guy » May 26 2019 4:08pm

@Joachim, @captain387 - thanks for links, quite helpful. :)

Why do they list tires as "Front". Something to do with load rating perhaps? Maybe this applies to more powerful motorcycles where the rear tire would see more sheering force. You guys are using these in both rear and front I presume.

Do you guys know if I need to remove the chain to get the rear wheel off?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » May 26 2019 5:25pm

that1guy wrote:
May 26 2019 4:08pm
@Joachim, @captain387 - thanks for links, quite helpful. :)

Why do they list tires as "Front". Something to do with load rating perhaps? Maybe this applies to more powerful motorcycles where the rear tire would see more sheering force. You guys are using these in both rear and front I presume.

Do you guys know if I need to remove the chain to get the rear wheel off?
The front MC tyre can handle heavy load and max speed 180kph so i dont think this tyres are to weak for a 50kg bike @ a topa top speed from 70kph..makes no sense front are rear wheel on this loads and 3inch wide.Rides perfect flat in to the corners :bigthumb:

To get the rear wheel of just pul out the axel and brake caliper/ bracket, push the wheel forwards and you can get the chain from the sprocket.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 29 2019 1:40pm

It seems the calipers on the bike will make noise unless you squeeze them extremely hard when rocking the bike back and forth with the front brake pressed. There must be a bit of play in at least the front caliper.

I swapped out new front pads but still hear the noise. The noise does go away if I squeeze full force on the brake lever. If I push the bike up against a wall and push forward, compressing the fork without pressing on the brakes, I don't hear or feel any noise or play.

This isn't an issue on my Shimano Zee brakes, so I'm calling cheap Sur-Ron stock calipers. While I don't think this will cause any issues while riding, its just that you will have a bit of play and noise in them and know they are cheap junk.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » May 29 2019 2:10pm

Offroader wrote:
May 29 2019 1:40pm
It seems the calipers on the bike will make noise unless you squeeze them extremely hard when rocking the bike back and forth with the front brake pressed. There must be a bit of play in at least the front caliper.

I swapped out new front pads but still hear the noise. The noise does go away if I squeeze full force on the brake lever. If I push the bike up against a wall and push forward, compressing the fork without pressing on the brakes, I don't hear or feel any noise or play.

This isn't an issue on my Shimano Zee brakes, so I'm calling cheap Sur-Ron stock calipers. While I don't think this will cause any issues while riding, its just that you will have a bit of play and noise in them and know they are cheap junk.
I get a resonance or squeal from my rear brake while slowing down with the brakes lightly applied. Only the rear, though. I don't know why. It could be that my rear disc is slightly warped.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 29 2019 2:13pm

My Magura MT5 can make noise at the rear. I think this have something to do with pistons extracting unevenly which makes one pad have uneven pressure on one of its sides and starts to vibrate. I bet this issue will go away when swapping to MT7 pads, because they are individual, so 4 smaller pads for one caliper instead of two big ones.
This is only a theory.
If this does not help it could be due to flex of the rear post mount adapter.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » May 29 2019 2:22pm

Allex wrote:
May 29 2019 2:13pm
My Magura MT5 can make noise at the rear. I think this have something to do with pistons extracting unevenly which makes one pad have uneven pressure on one of its sides and starts to vibrate. I bet this issue will go away when swapping to MT7 pads, because they are individual, so 4 smaller pads for one caliper instead of two big ones.
This is only a theory.
If this does not help it could be due to flex of the rear post mount adapter.
The mt5 pads are held in place by the shape of the slot and allow some movement. The mt7 pads uses bolts to hold them in place.
Your mt7 brake pads might not come with these bolts if you buy them from aliexpress.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGURA-brake-p ... auZjC00M6Q

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by JuiceMeUp » May 30 2019 3:21am

Service your brakes if there squealing.
Pads out. Brake cleaner.
Fully extend pistons. Clean and lube them. Replace rotors if there scored.
Worked a treat for me. They used to make horrible noises.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Liu » May 31 2019 12:33am

fechter wrote:
May 16 2019 10:44am
I think we should start a motorcycle gang, I mean club, for Sur-ron owners. I wonder what a large swarm of Light Bees would sound like taking off all at the same time?

killer beez jacket2a.jpg
:bigthumb: agree completely
If there is a SUR-RON owner club in North America, or in Europe, it is a very good thing to have a sound talking together.
Cheers :flame:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by wuhaichao443 » May 31 2019 4:10am

some day
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 31 2019 9:44am

What rear tire is that? Looks awesome.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 31 2019 12:54pm

fechter wrote:
May 31 2019 9:44am
What rear tire is that? Looks awesome.
It does look nice. How does it handle and how does the rear suspension handle with the increased weight?

Was it worth to go with something so big and heavy over the stock tire?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 31 2019 1:14pm

That's such a bad ass bike! Nice build, and great riding skills!
wuhaichao443 wrote:
May 31 2019 4:10am
some day
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