Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 12 2020 9:19pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 12 2020 9:05pm
I'm not really telling anyone want is the best
Then why did you say this?
Offroader wrote:
Apr 10 2020 12:02pm
Yes, I want to be provocative by saying its the "best"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 12 2020 9:40pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 12 2020 9:12pm
Offroader wrote:
Apr 12 2020 8:46pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 12 2020 8:25pm

Someone who claims to know what the best tires are for everyone should know that.
Missed that, again, link me to a post where I am telling everyone what the best tires are. You keep saying this but are not showing me the posts.

Then you show me a post where I said, "probably the best tire" and that was for my bike I was referring to as I was responding to someone who knows my riding.

You just like to stir stuff up, but then when you get called out you can't show any proof. I read all my posts and am not seeing any posts where I am telling people what the best tire is.

You may lack reading comprehension and that is why you keep reading things incorrectly.
Dude, I quoted you in four different posts essentially saying the same thing. Then when I call you out, you completely contradict your statement made earlier. With your our own words you admitted that you like to say what is best!
Offroader wrote:
Apr 10 2020 12:02pm
Yes, I want to be provocative by saying its the "best"
So which is it?

And here are more examples. Calling it the "perfect" tire is the same as saying its the best tire.
Offroader wrote:
Nov 05 2019 4:23pm
I'm thinking this may be the perfect tire for the rear of a Sur-Ron, longer lasting on paverment, soft compound, good grip, thick and long knobs.
Offroader wrote:
Nov 14 2019 3:15pm
That being said the Sur Ron stock tires are perfect for the front, they wear very slowly and are light and flexible.
Offroader wrote:
Apr 05 2020 3:52pm
I am finally in the process of building the ultimate Sur-Ron rear wheel, a 18"x3.00" Shinko 241 tire, this is probably the perfect size rear tire you can get.
You lack reading comprehension. Read the stuff you quoted above. Two of them were stating my opinion with using words "this may be" "This is probably".




The front tire on the sur-ron is perfect, I will own up to that one. You find me a lighter weight 19x2.75" for the front. Give me a better alternative? Actually, I would put on a bicycle tire if I could find a close matching size or if the 24" duro razorbacks in 3" were available, assuming that is a similar size to the 19".

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 12 2020 9:44pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 12 2020 9:40pm
You lack reading comprehension. Read the stuff you quoted above. Two of them were stating my opinion with using words "this may be" "This is probably".
Dude - you admitted that you were intentionally calling tires "the best".

Why don't you just admit it? I'm sure everyone is tired of this crap.

Offroader wrote:
Apr 12 2020 9:40pm
The front tire on the sur-ron is perfect, I will own up to that one. You find me a lighter weight 19x2.75" for the front. Give me a better alternative? Actually, I would put on a bicycle tire if I could find a close matching size or if the 24" duro razorbacks in 3" were available, assuming that is a similar size to the 19".
As I have said in the past, if you think think the stock tires are perfect in any way, you are in no way qualified telling people what are "probably" or are the best/perfect tires.

They are shit. My M403 has more tread on it after running it 2,000 miles.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 12 2020 11:09pm

I already clarified why I said tires were the best and it wasn't because I was blindly recommending a tire for everyone like you keep saying. Not going to keep going back and forth with this.

For the front tire, at least for me, it is the perfect tire in that the Sur-Ron tire doesn't wear out almost at all in the front. Is light weight. Has soft tread compound. It is also 2 ply which makes more sense for these light weight bikes, especially for the front. 4 Ply is over kill for the sur-ron, just adding on unnecessary weight in the worst possible location. You need the tire to flex easily as there is not much weight from the bike to do this. This is why I have to drop my PSI so much with my shinko 241.

In all seriousness I need to know what the best rear shock would be for this bike because I want to upgrade it. Could you or anyone else tell me that.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 12 2020 11:15pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 12 2020 11:09pm
I already clarified why I said tires were the best and it wasn't because I was blindly recommending a tire for everyone like you keep saying. Not going to keep going back and forth with this.
But why did you say this then (emphasis added):
Offroader wrote:
Apr 10 2020 12:02pm
Yes, I want to be provocative by saying its the "best"
Funny how you have nothing to say about that each time I have posted it. Wiggle all you want, you were either lying 2 days ago or you are lying now.
Offroader wrote:
Apr 12 2020 11:09pm
For the front tire, at least for me, it is the perfect tire in that the Sur-Ron tire doesn't wear out at all. Is light weight. Has soft tread compound. It is also 2 ply which makes more sense for these light weight bikes, especially for the front.
The M403 weighs about a pound more than the stock tire, but that is a pound more of much-needed tread, its a bit wider and still weighs far less than your Shinko.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 13 2020 12:06am

Let me get this straight, you are running a M403 19" 70/100 size front and rear? What size rims are you using?



I believe this tire is discontinued so this would be a M203 now?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 13 2020 12:24am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 13 2020 12:06am
Let me get this straight, you are running a M403 19" 70/100 size front and rear? What size rims are you using?
Front: Maxxis Maxxcross IT 70/100-19
Back: Bridgestone M403 70/100-19

Stock rims.
Offroader wrote:
Apr 13 2020 12:06am
I believe this tire is discontinued so this would be a M203 now?
That is what Rix said, with a slightly softer compound.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 13 2020 12:55am

Thanks, I'll give the M203 a try and mount it on my other sur-ron 19x1.4 rim. I have two sets of wheels so I can easily just swap the tire on my other 19" rim.

I'll compare it to my shinko 241 tire. This won't be for some months, but better in the summer anyway when I am riding more often.

This is for the rear only.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 13 2020 12:59am

I bought the 10.5" Jade coil for the rear, dimwitted granny riders don't need this type of shock :thumb:
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 13 2020 9:19am

X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 13 2020 12:59am
I bought the 10.5" Jade coil for the rear, dimwitted granny riders don't need this type of shock :thumb:
Did you notice any improvement over the stock shock?

Any reason you went with the jade coil over the FOX DHX2.

I'm leaning on the FOX DHX2.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 13 2020 10:16am

best surron tires?? :wink:
[youtube]6WMip0ZczeA[/youtube]
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 13 2020 1:57pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 13 2020 9:19am
X-Nitro wrote:
Apr 13 2020 12:59am
I bought the 10.5" Jade coil for the rear, dimwitted granny riders don't need this type of shock :thumb:
Did you notice any improvement over the stock shock?

Any reason you went with the jade coil over the FOX DHX2.

I'm leaning on the FOX DHX2.
The Jade shock is much more responsive & plush than the fastace.
This is my first DVO piece & I wanted to try their stuff.
I used fox air shocks back in the 70's so I'm over rear air, it pumps up, it's coil for me;
But I seriously think you will be happier with the Fox x2 airshock over the dhx2, it's more adjustable.
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by dirkdiggler » Apr 13 2020 7:29pm

So, whatever happened to the surron announcement after the Chinese new year? I keep waiting on getting another bike, but would like either a storm bee or the light bee pro.
Anyone know anything? Luna is still backordered and I'm not in a huge hurry.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 13 2020 7:41pm

this virus crap has the world upside down.. get what you can while you can.. storm is due mid summer now and look for an aftermarket battery and controller upgrade instead of LB pro, for now..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 13 2020 8:59pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 13 2020 10:16am
best surron tires?? :wink:
[youtube]6WMip0ZczeA[/youtube]
I was expecting the video to try out and compare different tires.

But no, the only tires other than the stock tires he has tried he declares the "best". Of course they are better than the stock tires, but declaring them the best seems dubious.

Pretty sure a knobby tire would have performed better on the trails shown.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 13 2020 9:19pm

I think you take the word "best" to literally.

This is commonly used word. "this is the best car"

"this is the best school"

"she is the best girlfriend"

"these are the best"

It is really just to emphasize something in that you really feel strongly about it. It also usually means it is best for that person.

If you however were comparing things, and said this is the best out of the 3 cars. Then that is different because you are directly comparing them to other things. Then you could argue there.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 13 2020 9:40pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 13 2020 9:19pm
I think you take the word "best" to literally.
Words are supposed to have meaning.

A more accurate title for the video would be "Good Tires" or "Better Tires", but using "Best Tires" is definitely more click baity than the more honest titles.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 13 2020 10:10pm

Offroader wrote:
Apr 13 2020 9:19pm
I think you take the word "best" to literally.
For him to literally use the word best he would have to try every tire possible - which of course is a ridiculous notion.

But for him to call it the best, I was just expecting the video to test more than one possibility. So, I just found the video title misleading, what can I say.

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 14 2020 11:20am

Offroader wrote:
Apr 13 2020 12:06am
Let me get this straight, you are running a M403 19" 70/100 size front and rear? What size rims are you using?
I believe this tire is discontinued so this would be a M203 now?
The M403 are still available from places that have stocked them and don't drop ship from the MFG. But eventually, that will run out and the M203, X20 or X30 are the next gen tires in this size from Bridgestone, as far as my research has indicated.
Rix knows better than anyone about unsprung weight, I don't think he would be saying a 3.5" tire was better without taking those things into account. I know we had discussions before about unsprung weight and heavy tires.
I want to clarify that I will only try a tire this wide in 17" or 16" rim sizes. The old pre 2001 Honda XR200 used a 17x1.85 rim and were designed for tires in the size range. Where the unsprung weight will hurt handling is at speed through the woops or jumps. the 64T I ordered from Kim will bring the potential top speed down enough it may not be as big of an issue. All this said, you and I are used to hubmotors with MC rim/tire combos that weighed 40 pounds, so the 3.5 on the rear of a SurRon will still be lighter than that and will be fun. My goal if I go this route is to build a slow hill climbing machine with lots of traction. Kind of like a scaled down version of a TW200 :lol: which is not even close to a SurRon.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Apr 14 2020 12:04pm

The rear suspension was the worst thing I hated about hub motor bikes. Anything you did really could not help. The rear would just slam up on anything you hit very harshly.

The front suspension was great, would perfectly ride over anything very smoothly. I always imagined what it would be like to have a rear as smooth as the front, I just thought it wasn't possible.

Then came the Sur-Ron, The rear of the bike felt just as smooth as the front. Just unimaginable you could have such great rear suspension. You can ride over anything and not have the rear suspension harshly jolt you up out of the seat.

This is why I am very careful not to mess up the sur-ron suspension by putting heavy tires,tubes, rims, etc and messing that rear suspension up. I will ride over pretty large things at 35-40MPH, and I don't want to be jolted up out of the seat like I used to all the time.

I'm going to be doing more testing to see just how much of a difference tire weights matter. I have to wait until I'm riding more so I can swap tires and compare them back to back. I'm still unsure of just how the heavier shinko 241 compares to the lighter stock tire because I didn't really ride them back to back as I haven't been using my bike much at all.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Driift » Apr 14 2020 3:45pm

Best tire is the Michelin star cross 5 medium compound. Lighter weight stronger more durable $98 shipped from
Motosport. Only drawback sheered valve stems. Rim lock or tubeless.

Stock tires are absolute crap. Wear too quickly and offer no real traction.

Nice parts about Sur Ron bikes .. customizing to your own tastes. Fun to do too. Just mounted up a set of pro tapers Rc bend with carbon adaptor and riser stem . Really cool. And not the stupid look of the 3” bars the 810 from pro taper. You look like a tool with those bars.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 14 2020 8:41pm

Driift wrote:
Apr 14 2020 3:45pm
Just mounted up a set of pro tapers Rc bend with carbon adaptor and riser stem . Really cool.
Can you post a pic of this carbon adapter/riser, or maybe the mfg & part # ?
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 14 2020 9:41pm

Driift wrote:
Apr 14 2020 3:45pm
Best tire is the Michelin star cross 5 medium compound. Lighter weight stronger more durable $98 shipped from
Motosport. Only drawback sheered valve stems. Rim lock or tubeless.

Stock tires are absolute crap. Wear too quickly and offer no real traction.

Nice parts about Sur Ron bikes .. customizing to your own tastes. Fun to do too. Just mounted up a set of pro tapers Rc bend with carbon adaptor and riser stem . Really cool. And not the stupid look of the 3” bars the 810 from pro taper. You look like a tool with those bars.
I guess I will be looking like a tool when I get my 3" bars on. :lol: But I will be comfortable riding.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Apr 14 2020 9:52pm

Yes we tool around in comfortable control,
The tallest bars I found are box 1 triple taper alloy,
https://www.danscomp.com/box-alloy-trip ... gJ34fD_BwE

Second place is the sunlite 5" rise https://www.amazon.com/Sunlite-MTB-Hand ... th=1&psc=1

Haven't seen the 31.5 ape-hangers but I keep looking..

I've heard tell that some sur ron owners are so old they don't even care how they look :lol:
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 14 2020 10:01pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 13 2020 8:59pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 13 2020 10:16am
best surron tires?? :wink:
[youtube]6WMip0ZczeA[/youtube]
I was expecting the video to try out and compare different tires.

But no, the only tires other than the stock tires he has tried he declares the "best". Of course they are better than the stock tires, but declaring them the best seems dubious.

Pretty sure a knobby tire would have performed better on the trails shown.
This guy is running a SR241 trials on the rear (calls it a 244 but its not) and what looks like a 70/100-19 Maxis Maxicross SI up front. In the world of Enduro Racing and woods riding on full size MCs, a trials tire on the rear and knobby up front is very very popular for one reason, it works. Some of the fastest enduro racers out there are running this combo. I ran it for years on all of my KTMs. I can see why this guy likes it. But its not the best combo for conditions where the ground is muddy, or snow, high speed sandwashes, and it would suck for MX racing.

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