Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 15173
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Jan 05 2021 10:41pm

Nice. It should last a long time in the snow. Maybe you can clear your driveway with it?
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 05 2021 10:44pm

fechter wrote:
Jan 05 2021 10:41pm
Nice. It should last a long time in the snow. Maybe you can clear your driveway with it?
Thanks. Most my miles are on dirt but yeah.

For clearing my driveway I prefer to use my hot spring water. 8)

Grantmac   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 765
Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Grantmac » Jan 06 2021 12:03pm

Isn't there a raising link available for the back end? That would sharpen up the steering.

andrenoites   100 W

100 W
Posts: 149
Joined: Aug 29 2013 10:02am
Location: Portugal

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by andrenoites » Jan 06 2021 2:10pm

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Nov 04 2020 2:27am
ggHawk wrote:
Nov 03 2020 6:58pm
Do you have a spec for the stock controller that shows it's max voltage? Or is this just trial and error.
Pulled apart a couple of the stock controllers, gutting them to house the Nuclear controller. The capacitors are rated to 80V form memory. Didn't bother looking up the spec of the mosfets. Fell under my planned 18S (75V) application. Wouldn't go beyond that though.
Maybe 19S battery charged at 4.1v will work fine with stock X controller? That would be really cool

JuiceMeUp   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 49
Joined: Mar 20 2017 2:40am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by JuiceMeUp » Jan 06 2021 5:38pm

andrenoites wrote:
Jan 06 2021 2:10pm
Maybe 19S battery charged at 4.1v will work fine with stock X controller? That would be really cool
Walking on the edge there. But hey, that's where the fun is.
Have yourself a spare controller on hand so your bike isn't down for too long.
I was personally underwhelmed doing voltage mods to the stock controller. Bit of extra top end speed but no additional torque on acceleration.

n2mb   100 W

100 W
Posts: 243
Joined: May 25 2018 1:37pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Jan 06 2021 5:41pm

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Jan 06 2021 5:38pm
andrenoites wrote:
Jan 06 2021 2:10pm
Maybe 19S battery charged at 4.1v will work fine with stock X controller? That would be really cool
Walking on the edge there. But hey, that's where the fun is.
Have yourself a spare controller on hand so your bike isn't down for too long.
I was personally underwhelmed doing voltage mods to the stock controller. Bit of extra top end speed but no additional torque on acceleration.
Sounds right. The controller amps would stay the same, so torque wouldn't change. Just top speed. Should go 12% faster with 18s. 50 mph?

sc-surfer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Aug 29 2020 7:19pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sc-surfer » Jan 06 2021 11:15pm

Grantmac wrote:
Jan 06 2021 12:03pm
Isn't there a raising link available for the back end? That would sharpen up the steering.

Yep. At least two vendors on eBay sell them. Available in +3/4" and +1 1/2".

thoroughbred   100 W

100 W
Posts: 194
Joined: Apr 11 2018 6:18pm
Location: virginia

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Jan 07 2021 8:01am

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 05 2021 7:48pm
Sup y'all!

So after over 2,300 tubeless miles it was time to replace my trusty Bridgeport M403 with the newer M203.

The first tubeless conversions I had to use a strap around the tire to get enough of a seal for the tire to inflate. It really was the most pain-in-the-ass task in the whole procedure.

Welp, this time I removed the the spoke protector rubber and used a narrow strip of gorilla tap in the U-channel. I then added another slightly narrower band in the U-Channel over that to kind of fill it in. Then one more band on top of that the full width of the rim.

This gave me a good enough seal to eliminate the need for using the strap! Filled right up with just an air compressor. It's such an easy process now I could not recommend going tubeless enough.

Image
Can you make a bridgeport tire on your bridgeport mill? What size is that, does your wheel have the little safety ridge, do you have to use a sealant of any sort, what pressures do you run? just a couple of questions :D I'm glad I'm not the only one with the swingarm smear from the pesky migrating kickstand.

Grantmac   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 765
Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Grantmac » Jan 07 2021 11:47am

sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 06 2021 11:15pm
Grantmac wrote:
Jan 06 2021 12:03pm
Isn't there a raising link available for the back end? That would sharpen up the steering.

Yep. At least two vendors on eBay sell them. Available in +3/4" and +1 1/2".
That would definitely sharpen things up and probably add some spring rate too.
Then perhaps slide the forks up in the clamps as far as possible.

andrenoites   100 W

100 W
Posts: 149
Joined: Aug 29 2013 10:02am
Location: Portugal

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by andrenoites » Jan 07 2021 1:23pm

n2mb wrote:
Jan 06 2021 5:41pm
JuiceMeUp wrote:
Jan 06 2021 5:38pm
andrenoites wrote:
Jan 06 2021 2:10pm
Maybe 19S battery charged at 4.1v will work fine with stock X controller? That would be really cool
Walking on the edge there. But hey, that's where the fun is.
Have yourself a spare controller on hand so your bike isn't down for too long.
I was personally underwhelmed doing voltage mods to the stock controller. Bit of extra top end speed but no additional torque on acceleration.
Sounds right. The controller amps would stay the same, so torque wouldn't change. Just top speed. Should go 12% faster with 18s. 50 mph?
Well, I'm not sure but I think the power will also increase with voltage W=V x Amp

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 07 2021 4:22pm

thoroughbred wrote:
Jan 07 2021 8:01am
3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 05 2021 7:48pm
Sup y'all!

So after over 2,300 tubeless miles it was time to replace my trusty Bridgeport M403 with the newer M203.

The first tubeless conversions I had to use a strap around the tire to get enough of a seal for the tire to inflate. It really was the most pain-in-the-ass task in the whole procedure.

Welp, this time I removed the the spoke protector rubber and used a narrow strip of gorilla tap in the U-channel. I then added another slightly narrower band in the U-Channel over that to kind of fill it in. Then one more band on top of that the full width of the rim.

This gave me a good enough seal to eliminate the need for using the strap! Filled right up with just an air compressor. It's such an easy process now I could not recommend going tubeless enough.

Image
Can you make a bridgeport tire on your bridgeport mill? What size is that, does your wheel have the little safety ridge, do you have to use a sealant of any sort, what pressures do you run? just a couple of questions :D I'm glad I'm not the only one with the swingarm smear from the pesky migrating kickstand.
Heh, well, shows you where my heart is. Sorry I meant Bridgestone. :P

Here is a complete list of what I used:

Gorilla Tape: https://amzn.to/3nn5rrt
NoTubes Tire Sealant: https://amzn.to/3s3t6k9
Valve stems: https://amzn.to/3hTYpct
Injector: https://amzn.to/2LziGrJ
Bridgestone M203 https://amzn.to/3nooJwH

Also a tool to remove the valve from the stem. My valve stem cap has a tool built in.

Use 2-4oz of sealant per tire - bottle above is 16oz.

You can get by without the injector and valve removal tool if you pour directly in the tire but I think they are worth it.

Just let me know if you have any questions.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 07 2021 4:23pm

It's is the stock wheel, not sure what you mean about safety thing.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 08 2021 7:08pm


sc-surfer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Aug 29 2020 7:19pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sc-surfer » Jan 08 2021 7:19pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 07 2021 4:22pm
thoroughbred wrote:
Jan 07 2021 8:01am
3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 05 2021 7:48pm
Sup y'all!

So after over 2,300 tubeless miles it was time to replace my trusty Bridgeport M403 with the newer M203.

The first tubeless conversions I had to use a strap around the tire to get enough of a seal for the tire to inflate. It really was the most pain-in-the-ass task in the whole procedure.

Welp, this time I removed the the spoke protector rubber and used a narrow strip of gorilla tap in the U-channel. I then added another slightly narrower band in the U-Channel over that to kind of fill it in. Then one more band on top of that the full width of the rim.

This gave me a good enough seal to eliminate the need for using the strap! Filled right up with just an air compressor. It's such an easy process now I could not recommend going tubeless enough.

Image
Can you make a bridgeport tire on your bridgeport mill? What size is that, does your wheel have the little safety ridge, do you have to use a sealant of any sort, what pressures do you run? just a couple of questions :D I'm glad I'm not the only one with the swingarm smear from the pesky migrating kickstand.
Heh, well, shows you where my heart is. Sorry I meant Bridgestone. :P

Here is a complete list of what I used:

Gorilla Tape: https://amzn.to/3nn5rrt
NoTubes Tire Sealant: https://amzn.to/3s3t6k9
Valve stems: https://amzn.to/3hTYpct
Injector: https://amzn.to/2LziGrJ
Bridgestone M203 https://amzn.to/3nooJwH

Also a tool to remove the valve from the stem. My valve stem cap has a tool built in.

Use 2-4oz of sealant per tire - bottle above is 16oz.

You can get by without the injector and valve removal tool if you pour directly in the tire but I think they are worth it.

Just let me know if you have any questions.
Any idea how to seal the rim lock?? I run rim locks on all my wheels and I'd love to go tubeless but don'y know how I'd seal that. Thoughts??

Also, what pressure are you running? Any worry about spinning the tire?
Last edited by sc-surfer on Jan 08 2021 7:21pm, edited 1 time in total.

sc-surfer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Aug 29 2020 7:19pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sc-surfer » Jan 08 2021 7:20pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:08pm
New 200mm fork from Sur-Ron:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/9120075 ... 441384013/

Image
Interesting. Wonder what fork they are using? I'm super happy with my Manitou Dorado Pro fork, but it wasn't a cheap upgrade. Would be nice to see a better fork come from the factory.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 08 2021 7:26pm

sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:19pm
Any idea how to seal the rim lock?? I run rim locks on all my wheels and I'd love to go tubeless but don'y know how I'd seal that. Thoughts??
My understanding (and of course I could be wrong) was that rim locks are primarily to prevent valve stems from tearing. That is not possibly an issue with tubeless.
sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:19pm
Also, what pressure are you running? Any worry about spinning the tire?
I think around 12psi and spinning has never been noticeable let alone an issue.

sc-surfer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Aug 29 2020 7:19pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sc-surfer » Jan 08 2021 7:39pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:26pm
sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:19pm
Any idea how to seal the rim lock?? I run rim locks on all my wheels and I'd love to go tubeless but don't know how I'd seal that. Thoughts??
My understanding (and of course I could be wrong) was that rim locks are primarily to prevent valve stems from tearing. That is not possibly an issue with tubeless.
Rim locks are to keep the tire from spinning on the rim, which does indeed rip the stems off. However, even spinning a tire without a tube in it is not great. At the minimum you don't move forward (usually when climbing or accelerating) and at worst you break the rim seal and get a flat.
3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:26pm
sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:19pm
Also, what pressure are you running? Any worry about spinning the tire?
I think around 12psi and spinning has never been noticeable let alone an issue.
At 12psi on a Sur Ron you're probably ok. Not really sure. I'm running 8-10psi but I have rim locks so I can't really say what would happen without them. If you've got that many miles on your setup it obviously works, and I love the idea of no tube. I just think I'd have to give up the rim locks. I might try my new 21" wheel tubeless before I install the rim lock and see what happens at 8-10 psi. I can always add it and a tube later.
Last edited by sc-surfer on Jan 08 2021 11:34pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 08 2021 9:06pm

sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:39pm
Rim locks Pareto keep the tire from spinning on the rim, which does indeed rip the stems off. However, even spinning a tire without a tube in it is not great.
I've limped home on flats (before going tubeless) with 0psi so I know about spinning.

I'd expect it to slip a little which like I said is imperceptible at 12psi. Might be a bit more of a problem at 8, but I don't know. If I had to guess it's probably some slippage not outright spinning.

sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:39pm
At the minimum you don't move forward (usually when climbing or accelerating) and at worst you break the rim seal and get a flat.
Slipping shouldn't break the seal. Low PSI and hard bumps can cause burping with all tubeless tires that use sealant however.
sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 7:39pm
At 12psi on a Sur Ron you're probably ok. Not really sure.
What is possibly not OK?

sc-surfer   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 20
Joined: Aug 29 2020 7:19pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sc-surfer » Jan 08 2021 9:10pm

OK just being that the tire will stay on the rim. At that psi I've not had any issues. As for spinning and not breaking a seal, I'm skeptical, but maybe.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 08 2021 9:26pm

sc-surfer wrote:
Jan 08 2021 9:10pm
OK just being that the tire will stay on the rim. At that psi I've not had any issues. As for spinning and not breaking a seal, I'm skeptical, but maybe.
If you really need to run such low pressure, "Tubliss" is probably better for you - supposedly you can run all the way down to 0, though I've never used it.

[youtube]SUpqm8O6kOc[/youtube]

Hawaiiguy   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 18
Joined: Sep 22 2020 5:32pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hawaiiguy » Jan 08 2021 9:29pm

Two of my friend’s did the tubliss conversion for the back,and they come back at zero psi often.1 converted back and the other is in the process of converting back.Regular old rim lock and tube works the best in my opinion.So much easier changing tires.

smdub   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Sep 15 2019 5:51pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Jan 08 2021 9:35pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 08 2021 9:06pm
What is possibly not OK?
Pulling the tire off the rim enough in a corner for it to go (nearly)instanly fat. :shock:

I run a Tubliss system on the motorcycles and SurRon but I run Stan's tubeless on my mtbs (29ers w/ 2.35" tires so ballpark SurRon sized.) Anything below 12-ish psi on those and I can burp air or rocks/roots will mess up the bead seal. The mtb tires are thinner sidewall than a moto tire so the moto tires might resist this more? But I don't even make 1hp on the mtb so the SurRon might do it easier?

I don't think you'd spin tires w/ Stan's tubeless. The sealent 'glues' the tire on a bit when your first mount.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 08 2021 9:38pm

smdub wrote:
Jan 08 2021 9:35pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Jan 08 2021 9:06pm
What is possibly not OK?
Pulling the tire off the rim enough in a corner for it to go (nearly)instanly fat. :shock:
I've ridden over 2,300 miles and as I stated its never been an issue so its curious that someone would say that I might be OK.

:roll:

smdub   100 mW

100 mW
Posts: 48
Joined: Sep 15 2019 5:51pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Jan 08 2021 9:56pm

Terrain is different? Some trails here I never have a problem. One had little root bits sticking up that are fond of messing up tire beads. Running across a creek, clipping a small rock, and getting dirt in the bead wsa a fun one too. Though by in large I mostly get flats in wrecks where I slide. Stan's is still awesome and I'll never go back to tubes on a mtb. Pinch flats are a thing of the past. Can't hurt to try it on a SurRon.

I'm running a wider rear wheel on the SurRon now so can use Tubliss and it's great to go down to trials-bike type pressures. I haven't had great luck w/ it in on a front yet though. Never could get it to seat and hold air. Never a problem on the rears though. :?:

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 437
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jan 08 2021 10:45pm

smdub wrote:
Jan 08 2021 9:56pm
Can't hurt to try it on a SurRon.
That's thing. I shared that it has been 2,300 trouble-free tubeless miles for me.

:roll:

If I was like "can I run tubeless for the next 2,300 miles", then it might make sense to say "it might be OK" or it "can't hurt to try".

:lol:

Post Reply