Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 09 2018 7:29am

Hyena wrote:
Apr 09 2018 1:18am
I thought the same fechter but I googled it and apparently there is an "air type" circuit breaker, meaning to creates a physical air gap between the contacts when the breaker is open (vs a solid state type?) https://www.elprocus.com/air-circuit-br ... plication/

Still, it's likely a translation of a term not really in use. How are ya'll liking the 32ah lithium ion accumulator ? :P
Its a nice with the some serious range potential, I am going to post a little review with a couple of pics later tonight.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » Apr 09 2018 12:14pm

Well, I picked up the super moto wheel kit from Luna today. Since I spend most of the time riding to and from work, this will make it a much better commuter bike. I'll probably keep the gearing low so it tops out at 35mph instead of 45mph. I could use the extra torque :mrgreen:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 09 2018 1:33pm

johnrobholmes wrote:
Apr 09 2018 12:14pm
Well, I picked up the super moto wheel kit from Luna today. Since I spend most of the time riding to and from work, this will make it a much better commuter bike. I'll probably keep the gearing low so it tops out at 35mph instead of 45mph. I could use the extra torque :mrgreen:
Yep, I have 3 58T sprockets on the way. Probably going to sell 2 and run one on my machine. Extra torque = extra :D :D

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Apr 09 2018 1:37pm

Rix wrote:
Apr 09 2018 1:33pm
johnrobholmes wrote:
Apr 09 2018 12:14pm
Well, I picked up the super moto wheel kit from Luna today. Since I spend most of the time riding to and from work, this will make it a much better commuter bike. I'll probably keep the gearing low so it tops out at 35mph instead of 45mph. I could use the extra torque :mrgreen:
Yep, I have 3 58T sprockets on the way. Probably going to sell 2 and run one on my machine. Extra torque = extra :D :D
I'll buy one.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Apr 09 2018 1:40pm

I was thinking. Since there is a brake/throttle interface and there is some kind of control over power delivery, would it be possible to program a clutch type action for trials activities. Maybe a couple different ways that the motor ramps up after releasing brake? I'm a total newb when it comes to electronic controls.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 09 2018 2:17pm

artisanstone wrote:
Apr 09 2018 1:40pm
I was thinking. Since there is a brake/throttle interface and there is some kind of control over power delivery, would it be possible to program a clutch type action for trials activities. Maybe a couple different ways that the motor ramps up after releasing brake? I'm a total newb when it comes to electronic controls.
Electric Motion trial motorcycles have an electronic clutch lever (ELS) on their bikes.. I personally would not know how to implement that on Sur-ron (but maybe the manufacturer could add this as a future upgrade option)..

Electric Motion ELS :
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Apr 09 2018 3:21pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 09 2018 2:17pm
artisanstone wrote:
Apr 09 2018 1:40pm
I was thinking. Since there is a brake/throttle interface and there is some kind of control over power delivery, would it be possible to program a clutch type action for trials activities. Maybe a couple different ways that the motor ramps up after releasing brake? I'm a total newb when it comes to electronic controls.
Electric Motion trial motorcycles have an electronic clutch lever (ELS) on their bikes.. I personally would not know how to implement that on Sur-ron (but maybe the manufacturer could add this as a future upgrade option)..

Electric Motion ELS :
That's pretty fancy. I more meant that the bike as it is ramps up power in a delayed fashion similar to how you would do with a clutch. I just thought with all the smart people on this forum, there might be a way to have different settings for that. Maybe none of that is programmable though?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by macribs » Apr 09 2018 4:15pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 09 2018 2:17pm
artisanstone wrote:
Apr 09 2018 1:40pm
I was thinking. Since there is a brake/throttle interface and there is some kind of control over power delivery, would it be possible to program a clutch type action for trials activities. Maybe a couple different ways that the motor ramps up after releasing brake? I'm a total newb when it comes to electronic controls.
Electric Motion trial motorcycles have an electronic clutch lever (ELS) on their bikes.. I personally would not know how to implement that on Sur-ron (but maybe the manufacturer could add this as a future upgrade option)..

Electric Motion ELS :
From the video it seems that ELS works the opposite of a clutch. Notice when he engages the brake lever, normal clutch would make for a RPM increase. Here you can hear the RPM falls noticeable. I guess that is not what you would want riding off road in a tight turn, or up a big rock or a steep climb. Trial riders uses the clutch to launch forward violently and with great force ensuring motor has already great torque when releasing the clutch. Not sure how they use the ELS in a similar fashion, as it on the video seems to work almost opposite from a clutch.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Apr 09 2018 4:22pm

Got the first 58t done. I am doing 30 pcs. 15 black and 15 dark gray. Next will be a 52 tooth and I will do 22 pcs.

After that I don't know.

58t reduced.jpg

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 09 2018 4:25pm

macribs wrote:
Apr 09 2018 4:15pm
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 09 2018 2:17pm
artisanstone wrote:
Apr 09 2018 1:40pm
I was thinking. Since there is a brake/throttle interface and there is some kind of control over power delivery, would it be possible to program a clutch type action for trials activities. Maybe a couple different ways that the motor ramps up after releasing brake? I'm a total newb when it comes to electronic controls.
Electric Motion trial motorcycles have an electronic clutch lever (ELS) on their bikes.. I personally would not know how to implement that on Sur-ron (but maybe the manufacturer could add this as a future upgrade option)..

Electric Motion ELS :
From the video it seems that ELS works the opposite of a clutch. Notice when he engages the brake lever, normal clutch would make for a RPM increase. Here you can hear the RPM falls noticeable. I guess that is not what you would want riding off road in a tight turn, or up a big rock or a steep climb. Trial riders uses the clutch to launch forward violently and with great force ensuring motor has already great torque when releasing the clutch. Not sure how they use the ELS in a similar fashion, as it on the video seems to work almost opposite from a clutch.
Electric Motion has a foot rear brake lever and right hand front brake lever.. the tester in the video never engaged either brake, just the throttle and ELS clutch lever..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » Apr 09 2018 4:30pm

Those look really nice!

Question for folks who have ridden both forks, is the RST noticeably flexier? Luna has offered to exchange my Fast Ace for the RST since it has the seal issue. I really like the feel of a solid fork though, and don't care about losing some bike weight.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Noillek » Apr 09 2018 5:39pm

motomoto wrote:
Apr 09 2018 4:22pm
Got the first 58t done. I am doing 30 pcs. 15 black and 15 dark gray. Next will be a 52 tooth and I will do 22 pcs.

After that I don't know.


58t reduced.jpg
Do you ship to Europe? I might be interested in both sizes.

Thanks

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hyena » Apr 09 2018 6:15pm

motomoto wrote:
Apr 09 2018 4:22pm
Next will be a 52 tooth and I will do 22 pcs.
52t could be the pick of the bunch I reckon. Talking to Adam he hasn't measured the top speed with the 58t yet but he said it's quite noticeably less. It sounds like it could leave the top end a little too light on for general riding, which I don't think I could trade off. 55 instead of 65km/hr I could come at, but any less and I think it'd be a deal breaker for me. That brings us back to mods, and an 18S lipo conversion with field weakening would hit the spot 8) This is something they could actually do from the factory with minimal reworking if they wanted to - they've only gotta squeeze in an extra 4 cells and they could have 18S10P in the same box, existing 80v controller would handle it and some software sinewave FOC shenanigans would get the extra top speed. Or go with GA cells 18S9P and actually have a few cells less but a tad more watthours. Or 27ah of 30Qs for a performance model that could be made to safely spit out 7500w.
It's odd that they're sticking to 60v on the white ghost as well, which seems fairly obviously underpowered when it could be at least 80v. I guess there's some 'high voltage' regulation they're trying to stay under for easier approval.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 09 2018 6:59pm

johnrobholmes wrote:
Apr 09 2018 4:30pm
Those look really nice!

Question for folks who have ridden both forks, is the RST noticeably flexier? Luna has offered to exchange my Fast Ace for the RST since it has the seal issue. I really like the feel of a solid fork though, and don't care about losing some bike weight.
JRH, the RST is much more responsive, in my opinion. It handles well, from the ride I had on both. Not that much flex, maybe a little more than the Fastace, but nothing that’ll scare you or make you feel uncomfortable. Personally, if you’re doing trail riding that doesn’t involve crazy drops or any thing that would really stress the suspension, you’ll be happy with the RSTs. Much lower maintenance and longer warranty too. If you’re pursuing big jumps, Fastaces are probably better.

How much do you weigh tho? I’m 160 without gear, 170 with light gear. Feels good to me, doesn’t bottom out for me when set properly, but I haven’t done any jumps or anything really crazy yet.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by jph3 » Apr 09 2018 7:58pm

LC put a video up... https://youtu.be/LJ33aqBfS48

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by AMM118 » Apr 09 2018 8:00pm


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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 09 2018 8:23pm

johnrobholmes wrote:
Apr 09 2018 4:30pm
Those look really nice!

Question for folks who have ridden both forks, is the RST noticeably flexier? Luna has offered to exchange my Fast Ace for the RST since it has the seal issue. I really like the feel of a solid fork though, and don't care about losing some bike weight.
I rode the RST R1 on two different ebikes, one fork was AWESOME! and the other fork was not awesome. One thing for certain, Their wasn't any issues with flex. My ride weight was 245 at the time...its 245 now. Anyway I am told the "Killah" fork is better than the R1. I have not ridden the Killah though. Not trying to thread jack this forum, but if you watch this video you can see what kind of abuse I subjected the RST too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbG4ZILyR_I At 1:50, if you pause it, you can actually see the RST.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 09 2018 9:04pm

AMM118 wrote:
Apr 09 2018 8:00pm
interesting video, except now that the fast ace fork is coming from Sur-ron with coil springs instead of air, some of the comments and comparison is no longer valid.. they also say the fox fork is almost the cost of the complete bike, that's not really true (its about half the price of the complete bike)..
some ride & sk8 videos:
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 09 2018 10:38pm

As some are aware, my green Sur-Ron has recently arrived, here is a break down about my bike.

Packaging: The Sur-Ron arrived safely in a heavy duty cardboard crate. The bike was packed very well and didn't even sustain a scratch. Props to Sur-Ron and Luna for product delivery.

Assembly: The bike arrived mostly assembled. Even the battery was already installed. I only had to mount the front wheel, headlight, and handle bar. Anyone who has the ability to repair a flat tire on a bicycle can assemble a Sur-Ron from the crate.

Battery and charging: My battery arrived at an indicated 55% SOC. Utilizing the included charger was straight forward.

Chassis and suspension set up: When I ordered my Sur-Ron I had the option of choosing between the the RST and Fast Ace. I chose the Fast Ace based on Jay's observations with the fork. I initially set static sag of the fork at about 30mm. The rear is set at 35mm. The rear shock came with a 450# spring. In all reality, I should have a 500# spring with my body weight of 245. However turning the preload spanner on the shock tower down to about 33% of the threads is actually working, and working quite well. With my body weight, I am landing 4 foot drops without bottoming hard. I am bottoming though. The Sur-Ron shock linkage is unlike anything I have ever seen or ridden before, and it works great. I am impressed.

Quality. The quality of the frame, battery, and motor are off the hook. The welds on the frame are really really sweet. My neighbor has a 2002 Honda CRF 450. I know his 450 is old, but the welds on the Sur-Ron frame look better than his. The frame finish is immaculate. Based on the frame, battery and motor, I am having a challenging time understanding how Sur-Ron can offer this bike for $3400.

The Ride: With the front fork set at 30mm sag, I am having a difficult time dialing this fork. If I soften compression, it bottoms easily, if I increase compression, the bottoming isn't bad, but small bump/choppy terrain performance suffers. I will admit that I am a suspension snob and those that know me, know I am a very judgmental when it comes to suspension. Back when I was riding and racing gassers, I would pay 10K for a bike, then put another 2k into suspension. I am that guy. That being said, the suspension works for what ever I tell it to do. The caveat is their is there is a compromise and a price to be paid on the opposite side. The rear is easier to dial and I have found a happy medium between small bump compliance and anti bottoming.

Performance: WOW!. This bike, at this price point, shouldn't be this good. Period. Again, I am blown away. I so far have 2 rides totaling about 65KM all off road and am impressed. I don't truly don't know what the peak KV is as there is no CA/DC1 on board, but the information says its 3KW to 6KW. Well this bike definitely climbs better than my 3KW direct drive hub motor powered machine I have previously ridden. In fact, its climbing ability is on par with my old Alpha running a MXUS 4504, 18 MC wheel, with the Addaptto max E turned down to 8KW. I based this claim on a specific hill climb I had done on both bikes. Of course the Sur-Ron has a mid drive with gear reduction and primary and secondary chain drive so it probably picks up some mechanical advantage. That said, its no where near as fast top speed as the bike I am comparing it to on the flat.

Over all impression: The bar has been raised with the Sur-Ron. Its fun, it performs, and its cheap relatively speaking. An issue I had was the head set was loose. I had a weird clunk feeling when flogging the machine off road. When I got back home and searched the issue, I found my head set/fork had too much play. Easy fix though, I just loosened the upper triple clamps and fork tube clamp, and the handle bar stem, and tighten the center stem nut and the play was removed. I then re-tightened everything and the problem was solved. The only other issue was I felt that the secondary chain drive came tensioned a little tight. It was banjo string tight. Again the issue was correceted easily by loosening the axle nuts and turning the axle block screws in 1/4 turn. Problems solved. Over all bang for the buck, the Sur-Ron is very impressive.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » Apr 09 2018 10:45pm

rides stable compared to a hub motor eh? :D

I pretty much had the same impression on the quality / price. A bit wow'd by the frame and rear suspension geometry quality.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by mr.electric » Apr 10 2018 1:01am

Marksteamnz wrote:
Apr 08 2018 7:49pm
Rodney64 wrote:
Apr 08 2018 1:07am
jph3 wrote:
Apr 08 2018 12:37am
Been messing around with it... wiggling through wires coming out of the frame and I did get intermittent power. I could get it to stay on without any movement, but as soon as I moved, it went out again. Must be a loose connection in the bunch.

Good sign I guess that it’s not the controller, but looks like I’m going to have to dig a bit to find the culprit.
It maybe a blown fuse. if you open the battery compartment and pull out the battery then open the fuse box which is located in front of the air switch. There will be a spare fuse stored in the lid
Can we clarify what an air switch is?
In my 60V there is a circuit breaker in front of the battery visible when the lid is lifted. That was off when the bike arrived. Turn that on and it was all go. The battery was at 30% charged out of the crate.
The "air switch" is chinesenglish for "error switch" which means circuit breaker
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 10 2018 2:22am

johnrobholmes wrote:
Apr 09 2018 10:45pm
rides stable compared to a hub motor eh? :D

I pretty much had the same impression on the quality / price. A bit wow'd by the frame and rear suspension geometry quality.
I don't know, I am impressed with the build quality but the Fastace rear shock seems to be just okay on mine. They say you can adjust the rebound by 18 clicks but I was only able to turn mine 7 clicks before it got so hard to turn I was afraid to break it. It's extremely hard to adjust the rebound without gloves as it hurts my fingers. Anyone else have this issue? It seems to ride pretty well. When I first got the bike, I thought there were only 2 rebound settings. Yes, it was that stuck.
Last edited by m3t on Apr 10 2018 4:07am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Apr 10 2018 3:16am

Rix wrote:
Apr 09 2018 10:38pm
In fact, its climbing ability is on par with my old Alpha running a MXUS 4504, 18 MC wheel, with the Addaptto max E turned down to 8KW. I based this claim on a specific hill climb I had done on both bikes. Of course the Sur-Ron has a mid drive with gear reduction and primary and secondary chain drive so it probably picks up some mechanical advantage.
Tell me about it!
Nice review. Now try to jump on your adaptto setup right after you road the sur-ron. What I notice is some kind of throttle delay especially when you try to pop wheliees. My bike with Adaptto setup feels sluggish similar to a slingshot, more like a lag/delay where Sur-ron controller reacts directly without any sluggishness.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 10 2018 7:23am

johnrobholmes wrote:
Apr 09 2018 10:45pm
rides stable compared to a hub motor eh? :D

I pretty much had the same impression on the quality / price. A bit wow'd by the frame and rear suspension geometry quality.
Yes, it handles better than a hubmotor set up. Most the mass is suspended and thats the difference.
Tell me about it!
Nice review. Now try to jump on your adaptto setup right after you road the sur-ron. What I notice is some kind of throttle delay especially when you try to pop wheliees. My bike with Adaptto setup feels sluggish similar to a slingshot, more like a lag/delay where Sur-ron controller reacts directly without any sluggishness.
I noticed this as well Allex, and its easy to ride wheelies and control the throttle while the front wheel is in the air. The power delivery and throttle modulation is very precise. Can't wait to get my 58T on. I am also going to buy one of Kim's 52T when hes ready to sell them. I will have different gearing options for different conditions.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 10 2018 7:27am

motomoto wrote:
Apr 09 2018 4:22pm
Got the first 58t done. I am doing 30 pcs. 15 black and 15 dark gray. Next will be a 52 tooth and I will do 22 pcs.

After that I don't know.


58t reduced.jpg
That is a very sexy sprocket Kim, how much will you selling the 52T for? 7075 is the toughest aluminum out there, should last a while. Put me down for 2 52T aluminum in black. Are you anodizing your sprockets?

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