Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 10, 2018 9:18 am

Rix wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 10:38 pm

Chassis and suspension set up: When I ordered my Sur-Ron I had the option of choosing between the the RST and Fast Ace. I chose the Fast Ace based on Jay's observations with the fork. I initially set static sag of the fork at about 30mm. The rear is set at 35mm. The rear shock came with a 450# spring. In all reality, I should have a 500# spring with my body weight of 245. However turning the preload spanner on the shock tower down to about 33% of the threads is actually working, and working quite well. With my body weight, I am landing 4 foot drops without bottoming hard. I am bottoming though. The Sur-Ron shock linkage is unlike anything I have ever seen or ridden before, and it works great. I am impressed.

The Ride: With the front fork set at 30mm sag, I am having a difficult time dialing this fork. If I soften compression, it bottoms easily, if I increase compression, the bottoming isn't bad, but small bump/choppy terrain performance suffers. I will admit that I am a suspension snob and those that know me, know I am a very judgmental when it comes to suspension. Back when I was riding and racing gassers, I would pay 10K for a bike, then put another 2k into suspension. I am that guy. That being said, the suspension works for what ever I tell it to do. The caveat is their is there is a compromise and a price to be paid on the opposite side. The rear is easier to dial and I have found a happy medium between small bump compliance and anti bottoming.
poor small bump and chatter compliance (when optimized for bigger hits) is pretty characteristic of air suspension.. I look forward to ride reviews of light bee with the fast ace coil spring set-up.. is it just a matter of changing out the one fork leg?? coil sprung leg might be a good upgrade option (I'm not a huge fan of air suspension, only benefit of air spring over coil spring is weight savings imo)..
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Apr 10, 2018 11:33 am

(I'm not a huge fan of air suspension, only benefit of air spring over coil spring is weight savings imo)..
And convenience of not having to re-spring for different rider weights. IMO, the convenience is not worth the trade off for performance.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Antenor » Apr 10, 2018 1:25 pm

Noillek wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 5:39 pm
motomoto wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 4:22 pm
Got the first 58t done. I am doing 30 pcs. 15 black and 15 dark gray. Next will be a 52 tooth and I will do 22 pcs.

After that I don't know.


58t reduced.jpg
Do you ship to Europe? I might be interested in both sizes.

Thanks

I have sent you a PM

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by madin88 » Apr 10, 2018 2:12 pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 9:18 am
poor small bump and chatter compliance (when optimized for bigger hits) is pretty characteristic of air suspension.. I look forward to ride reviews of light bee with the fast ace coil spring set-up.. is it just a matter of changing out the one fork leg?? coil sprung leg might be a good upgrade option (I'm not a huge fan of air suspension, only benefit of air spring over coil spring is weight savings imo)..
Today i bought a new Manitou Dorado Pro (2017 version) because i could get it cheap. This fork has an air spring but regarding reports from owners it should have outstanding small bump response. Due to the upside down construction the stanchion tubes are permanently lubed, while on usual forks this is not the case which might have a big effect on stiction.
I have two bikes with coil forks (Boxxer RC and Marzocchi 380) and i'm curious to see how the dorado compares to them.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Apr 10, 2018 6:01 pm

Hello, happy owners of Sur-Ron.
I'm in USA and ordered one of this last week. But after reviewed of tonns of youtube vids and feedbacks,
I realized this bike might be quite small for my 6' and 215 lbs.
So, I canceled the order...

But I still want this bike, cause it's awesome!

Could you please give some feedback to my list of concerns and questions:
1. If you personally are bigger than 6' or about it - how do you feel on this bike? (comfort or not, if not - what exactly?)
2. Can I do motocross track on it or it's to small, soft and slow for me?
3. Can I jump on big hills on it? Or it is more like soft enduro and I need to buy Alta MX for $14000 if I want electric MX bike?
4. How do you think will it fit for my height and weight?

Thank you all!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 10, 2018 6:16 pm

you need the Alta if you want something for big jumps and competitive with other gassers at the track.. Sur-ron is more comparable to a big wheel pitbike / playbike.. it could be made to fit you better for trail riding but doesn't sound like that's what you want.. to bad the Alta cost $10k more..
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Apr 10, 2018 6:36 pm

I'm certainly not a professional MX rider, so I doubt I'm gonna compete at all.
I mean can I do MX on it with my weight and height in general, just for fun?
And what about other questions? I'm interested on owners experience more.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Apr 10, 2018 6:43 pm

Pretty sure alta is cheaper than that. 10,500 from what ive seen. Awesome bike too, not really comparable to Sur-ron. That said, I think sur-ron is ultimate playbike which is what I wanted. Big wheel pitbike is good comparison.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 10, 2018 6:56 pm

here is a video of Sur-ron at the track you may enjoy..


light bee was more designed to fit smaller (asian) ppl.. (some) 6ft tall riders have complained that its too small for them.. but some mods could be done to make light bee better fit a taller heavier rider : stiffer suspension springs, taller riser bar, larger diameter front wheel 21" moto.. taller seat pad and or seat strut.. longer handlebar stem.. still won't have enough power for big jumps at the track though.. but get it anyway, if you don't like it then re-sell it to someone shorter and lighter...
Last edited by efMX Trials Electric Freeride on Apr 10, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 10, 2018 8:34 pm

I'm 6ft 1in and don't have riding ergonomic issues riding a Sur Ron, but I'm also comfortable riding on a 50 or 70 size dirtbike which feels smaller ergonomically to me than a Sur Ron.

I also personally like the air fork performance, and haven't been bottoming it out on anything I've hit with it yet.
Uran93 wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 6:01 pm
Hello, happy owners of Sur-Ron.
I'm in USA and ordered one of this last week. But after reviewed of tonns of youtube vids and feedbacks,
I realized this bike might be quite small for my 6' and 215 lbs.
So, I canceled the order...

But I still want this bike, cause it's awesome!

Could you please give some feedback to my list of concerns and questions:
1. If you personally are bigger than 6' or about it - how do you feel on this bike? (comfort or not, if not - what exactly?)
2. Can I do motocross track on it or it's to small, soft and slow for me?
3. Can I jump on big hills on it? Or it is more like soft enduro and I need to buy Alta MX for $14000 if I want electric MX bike?
4. How do you think will it fit for my height and weight?

Thank you all!
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 10, 2018 8:48 pm

Yep, and as much as people worry about the stiction of air forks due to the pressurized chambers, air forks have the advantage of being progressive, meaning that as they are compressed, their spring rates change progressively larger. This is because the air inside which is actually the spring force, compresses during the stroke and increases its force against the piston. That roughly translates to it being able take the small bumps and feel like a trail bike but also handle bigger jumps like an MX bike since it has a wider range. This will take some tuning and could feel great on one singletrack and terrible on the other, but just saying, as much as a coil spring is solid and proven, the air fork does have other advantages that we should consider. Also the tunability might be something people who are heavier may desire since they can effectively adjust the spring rate on the fly without having to obtain different springs with varying rates.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » Apr 10, 2018 9:04 pm

You are a fantastic rider! Awesome video!

Were you bottoming out on landings or woops? Incredible it was so well matched with a 450, was he giving it everything the 450 had?


efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 6:56 pm
here is a video of Sur-ron at the track you may enjoy..


light bee was more designed to fit smaller (asian) ppl.. (some) 6ft tall riders have complained that its too small for them.. but some mods could be done to make light bee better fit a taller heavier rider : stiffer suspension springs, taller riser bar, larger diameter front wheel 21" moto.. taller seat pad and or seat strut.. longer handlebar stem.. still won't have enough power for big jumps at the track though.. but get it anyway, if you don't like it then re-sell it to someone shorter and lighter...
Each carcinogen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for cancer.

Each mutagen vapor exposure includes a dice roll for reproductive genetic defects in your children.

Each engine start sprays them into a shared atmosphere which includes beings not offered an opportunity to consent accepting these cancer experiences and defective genetics life experiences.

Every post is a free gift to the collective of minds composing the living bleeding edge of LEV development on our spaceship.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 10, 2018 9:14 pm

liveforphysics wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 9:04 pm
You are a fantastic rider! Awesome video!

Were you bottoming out on landings or woops? Incredible it was so well matched with a 450, was he giving it everything the 450 had?
efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 6:56 pm
here is a video of Sur-ron at the track you may enjoy..


light bee was more designed to fit smaller (asian) ppl.. (some) 6ft tall riders have complained that its too small for them.. but some mods could be done to make light bee better fit a taller heavier rider : stiffer suspension springs, taller riser bar, larger diameter front wheel 21" moto.. taller seat pad and or seat strut.. longer handlebar stem.. still won't have enough power for big jumps at the track though.. but get it anyway, if you don't like it then re-sell it to someone shorter and lighter...
the video is from forum member motomoto..
the 450 would definitely pull away with bigger climbs, jumps, or straight aways.. still impressive though..
Last edited by efMX Trials Electric Freeride on Apr 10, 2018 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hyena » Apr 10, 2018 9:25 pm

liveforphysics wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 9:04 pm
Incredible it was so well matched with a 450, was he giving it everything the 450 had?
These are no where near a 450 in any aspect - at least not for general use. The only place you'd keep or up is on a tight twisty track where the 450 can't get the power down. I rode my surron and a ktm 450 back to back last weekend and they're chalk and cheese. I actually prefer the surron for the sort of riding I do. It could do with say 50% more power to make it ideal but it would still fall shy of 450.
I didn't race the 450 in a line but I can tell the race would be over and the surron hosed before the 450 even hit second gear.
A 125cc 4 stroke is a much fairer comparison. Or as we discussed earlier in the thread a 140cc is much more comparable in terms of size and power. I reckon a KLX140 and surron would be bang on.
I'll upload the video in a few days (got onboard video on both bikes, overhead drone footage and both riders on both bikes for fairness 8) ) but every race the surron just pulled in front - mainly because it got off the line easily every time. I managed to get closer on the 125 with a better launch and flat changes on the 125 but I reckon with more practice to get a perfect launch I could pull dead even on the surron. But that's their beauty as well, you just mash the throttle and you're gone - no clutch to slip, gears to shift etc. Getting off the line is no fuss and they've not got enough power to flip you off. Both of us wheelied the 125 a few times time trying to get it off the line as quickly as possible.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Apr 10, 2018 9:44 pm

Thank you for your answers. Yes, I saw that video many times. It’s not clear what weight was the driver and how is good Sur-Ron on landing after the jump.
Still concerned about the fitting on it. Does anyone have pictures how it looks like when you sit on it with your 6’ height?
Seems like your knees should be near your ears then?
And all that modification is my most concern, I want to use what I pay for, but not to buy something and change half of the parts to make it work...
So...
To be or not to be... what do you think?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 10, 2018 9:49 pm

the rider in the video, motomoto is 5'11"..
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... n#p1334623

seat height stock is ~31.5"
where are you located, maybe try to arrange a test ride before purchase..
the main value of light bee is the frame and battery imo all the other parts are replaceable.. maybe have a look at kuberg freerider 24 rear, 26" front wheels, ~35" seat height if you want a taller bike stock..
Last edited by efMX Trials Electric Freeride on Apr 10, 2018 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
some ride & sk8 videos:
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http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Apr 10, 2018 10:00 pm

I’ in Houston, TX, I wrote Luna about test drive, they said no possible, cause all their bikes are customers sell ready

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Apr 10, 2018 10:07 pm

Uran93 wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 10:00 pm
I’ in Houston, TX, I wrote Luna about test drive, they said no possible, cause all their bikes are customers sell ready
these bikes are selling like hot cakes so someone near you will probably have one soon.. if your up for the travel I'm sure Rix in NV or motomoto in cali would let you test their bikes..
https://www.sur-ronusa.com
some ride & sk8 videos:
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http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by RemoteRoad » Apr 10, 2018 10:34 pm

AMM118 wrote:
Apr 09, 2018 8:00 pm
Well, I preordered Jan. 11 and got the FastAce, in spite of earlier in the process asking about the RST and being told all bikes would come with the FastAce. As to which is better, I'm too green in bikes to know.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 11, 2018 1:46 am

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 10:07 pm
Uran93 wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 10:00 pm
I’ in Houston, TX, I wrote Luna about test drive, they said no possible, cause all their bikes are customers sell ready
these bikes are selling like hot cakes so someone near you will probably have one soon.. if your up for the travel I'm sure Rix in NV or motomoto in cali would let you test their bikes..
https://www.sur-ronusa.com
Yep, motomoto is the one who let me test ride the bikes. Great guy. Otherwise, bite the bullet and buy one. I guarantee you won't have any problems selling it if you absolutely have to. But I highly doubt you'll be doing that.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 11, 2018 1:50 am

Hyena wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 9:25 pm
liveforphysics wrote:
Apr 10, 2018 9:04 pm
Incredible it was so well matched with a 450, was he giving it everything the 450 had?
These are no where near a 450 in any aspect - at least not for general use. The only place you'd keep or up is on a tight twisty track where the 450 can't get the power down. I rode my surron and a ktm 450 back to back last weekend and they're chalk and cheese. I actually prefer the surron for the sort of riding I do. It could do with say 50% more power to make it ideal but it would still fall shy of 450.
I didn't race the 450 in a line but I can tell the race would be over and the surron hosed before the 450 even hit second gear.
A 125cc 4 stroke is a much fairer comparison. Or as we discussed earlier in the thread a 140cc is much more comparable in terms of size and power. I reckon a KLX140 and surron would be bang on.
I'll upload the video in a few days (got onboard video on both bikes, overhead drone footage and both riders on both bikes for fairness 8) ) but every race the surron just pulled in front - mainly because it got off the line easily every time. I managed to get closer on the 125 with a better launch and flat changes on the 125 but I reckon with more practice to get a perfect launch I could pull dead even on the surron. But that's their beauty as well, you just mash the throttle and you're gone - no clutch to slip, gears to shift etc. Getting off the line is no fuss and they've not got enough power to flip you off. Both of us wheelied the 125 a few times time trying to get it off the line as quickly as possible.
Yeah, no offense but that guy on the 450 was pretty much a newb. However, motomoto was riding on the beginner's track anyway so that makes sense.

Plus, 450s typically make 55+ hp and 32+ ft-lbs of torque...something a Sur Ron couldn't match. However, it does weigh over double the Sur Ron so that makes sense. Even still, very impressive riding. Shows you what a capable, torquey motor can do on a tight track.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 11, 2018 2:25 am

dirkdiggler wrote:
Mar 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Got new bars installed. I went with the Answer protaper 810 with 3" rise. Now the bike is perfect for me.
Only issue, was I pulled a wire putting on the brakes. I am unaware of how the electric brakes work on this. I noticed that the grub screws weren't tightened all the way on the brake wires. The bike doesn't move with them tightened. Any one else know how they are set-up? If I have the wires loose the bike works.
How tall are you? I'm 6'2" and wondering how much rise I should consider.

Also, could you tell us about your fender? Thanks!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Apr 11, 2018 2:59 am

Is everyone running without a chain guard? Or anyone otherwise recommend what to get? Thanks!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 11, 2018 3:12 am

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 11, 2018 2:25 am
dirkdiggler wrote:
Mar 31, 2018 9:06 pm
Got new bars installed. I went with the Answer protaper 810 with 3" rise. Now the bike is perfect for me.
Only issue, was I pulled a wire putting on the brakes. I am unaware of how the electric brakes work on this. I noticed that the grub screws weren't tightened all the way on the brake wires. The bike doesn't move with them tightened. Any one else know how they are set-up? If I have the wires loose the bike works.
How tall are you? I'm 6'2" and wondering how much rise I should consider.

Also, could you tell us about your fender? Thanks!
Dirkdiggler, if I'm not mistaken, the wires go to a proximity switch which is activated by either a ferrous metal or a magnet (most likely magnet in this case since the levers are made of aluminum). That's why when you're too close, it thinks you're already squeezing the brake and thus cuts off the power. This is the same type of switch on the kickstand. If you back it off to the point where it won't activate until you pull the brakes like it did before, then leave it there and apply some threadlock to keep it there.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by m3t » Apr 11, 2018 3:16 am

3DTOPO wrote:
Apr 11, 2018 2:59 am
Is everyone running without a chain guard? Or anyone otherwise recommend what to get? Thanks!
No chain guard, probably why they set it so tight at the factory. Makes me a little iffy though, considering what a chain under load can do if it breaks with that much tension without a chain guard to mitigate the intensity. Kinda hoping they develop one soon, but at the same time, a 420 chain is pretty cheap. I'd recommend going to a X-ring chain though for serious off road riding. O rings will drag too much and kill too much power. Standards will wear out too quickly under consistent off road use.

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