Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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johnrobholmes
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 04, 2018 8:57 pm

Also wanted to mention, the battery was totally dead. Wouldn't even allow a charge or display SOC. After 3 charger resets it started. Gonna keep an eye on capacity, makes me wonder if it sat that way for a few months.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 04, 2018 9:04 pm

If you can post some pics we can compare to our non-restricted bikes.
I doubt that the speed limiter would be anywhere near the battery pack.
Look for an add on loom from the controller.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 04, 2018 9:27 pm

There is an extra loop on the battery monitor plug , and cutting that brought the speed down to 10kpmh. There is a red wire in the battery area with a fuse, disconnecting that prevented the bike from booting up. I was told it is "a wire" that gets cut by the rep, so there's that.

I'll get some pics asap, it's at my shop at the moment. I'll open up the controll and desolder the jumper if I have to!
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 04, 2018 9:36 pm

I just received a document from the factory with the procedure, PM me and I can email it to you.👍

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by RemoteRoad » Jan 04, 2018 10:32 pm

Cool. Figured it would be a usb fob or some such to lift the restriction.

John, did your bike come with the newer motor and controller, which are a quieter and more powerful combo? I believe I read that they are distinguished by having cooling fins.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 04, 2018 11:55 pm

The motor is finned. It sounds like a trap controller, too thunky between poles to be sine. I'll certainly be looking for methods to get more amps.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 05, 2018 12:03 am

I have had quite a few loose spokes so far so this is something to keep an eye on.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Jan 05, 2018 4:33 am

johnrobholmes wrote:
Jan 04, 2018 11:55 pm
The motor is finned. It sounds like a trap controller, too thunky between poles to be sine. I'll certainly be looking for methods to get more amps.
Glad to see you pop up JR. Any chance you will be getting back into the the wheel building business? I think there may be a market for 19x1.6 and 21x1.6 rims laced to 20mm MTB DH hubs, but you would know more about that as you have done it. A 19 on the rear of a Sur-Ron with a 21 up front would look great and handle fantastic.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 05, 2018 7:56 am

Yeah, there is a chance I'll build wheels again. I just dislike the volume of space the rims take up. I was actually thinking a set of 17s for off road would be pretty sweet since I don't need the top speed.

I'm going back to school this month for engineering, gonna give another shake at controllers.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by johnrobholmes » Jan 05, 2018 10:45 am

Got it figured out. Green wire with black stripe that loops out of the battery monitoring harness, it needs to be uncut. There is also a limp mode when the battery is low. balance charge plus connecting the green wire together got plenty of speed and power. Yehaw!
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by RemoteRoad » Jan 05, 2018 3:36 pm

Very nice!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by NoFanBoiz » Jan 05, 2018 5:29 pm

For the members that want a decent pedal option, here is the best option:

contact the manufacturer, ask them to build a new bike model similar to the Stealth/Qulbix, which being manufactured in China and based on the bike pricing many of you already have, should be around half to one third of the equivalent Stealth/Qulbix

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by skeetab5780 » Jan 05, 2018 9:06 pm

Those are bikes based around hub motors. The title of this thread says mid drive

Nice try tho

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by NoFanBoiz » Jan 05, 2018 10:12 pm

skeetab5780 wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 9:06 pm
Those are bikes based around hub motors. The title of this thread says mid drive

Nice try tho
just in case you didn't / can't read:

contact the manufacturer, ask them to build a new bike model similar to the Stealth/Qulbix, which being manufactured in China and based on the bike pricing many of you already have, should be around half to one third of the equivalent Stealth/Qulbix

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by dirkdiggler » Jan 06, 2018 12:41 pm

My bike arrived yesterday from Luna. Finally got around to putting it together and got a quick test ride. The bike has a super high quality frame. A bit heavier than I expected, but I got the pit bike front forks and as always the moto rims add substantially to the weight. It took me a while to figure out how to get the thing turned on. I kept trying the battery monitor button and the red handlebar button. Nothing seemed to work. My battery was at 60% after a half hour of charging. So that didn't seem to be the problem. I ultimately realized there was a breaker switch under the battery cover. I wish the thing came with some sort of manual. I wouldn't read it if it was there, but since there wasn't one. Even the basics of putting tire on and the one peg would be helpful for most people. I think I know what I'm doing though and couldn't figure out the breaker switch without using some curse words. The other cool thing about the bike is the throttle does nothing with the kickstand extended. That had me also panicked, when after I finally got it turned on, the motor didn't turn with throttle. That will be a great safety feature for all the onlookers who like to twist the throttle. My kid has done that a few times on other ebikes and driven the bikes into a few things he shouldn't have.

My quick ride consisted of riding around the streets in the neighborhood. At first it was only going 35 kph and I was wondering what was happening, until I realized the sport mode wasn't engaged. The bike promptly took off. Sweet! So far I'm impressed with everything. Hope to get some good rides in this weekend to see how it really handles. This is the bike I've been trying to build in the garage for the past few years. It will save me so much trial and error trying to get it done myself and at such a higher quality. For the price also I don't thing I'd end up building something much cheaper from second hand parts. I hope not to do too much tinkering and spend my time outside riding it, but I already know that I will at least replace the bars and maybe stem. They are too low for me on a non pedal bike.

As to some of the other recent topics:

Pedals on this is stupid, its a e-motorbike. Maybe there is a market for it, but thinking the company should redesign the bike for that is a bad idea.

I think access is an issue for an LMX like the Sur-ron. Don't tear up the mtb trails with this. That is common sense. I would like people to explain more on why motors are not allowed on certain trails before things really blow up. Are motors banned because of noise, pollution, trail damage, speed or just to limit access? If we put this bike up to those issues, its not loud, no pollution, and does similar trail damage- runners and horses do so much more damage to our local trails than even full blown mx bikes would do. Speed is a similar factor with regular bikes. If speed is an issue with ebikes, can we just have a speed limit? I've had a few conversations with the lycra crowd. They all seem to be thick headed about ebikes and call it cheating or whatever, but I always ask them why they bike. Do you do it for fun or the exercise? If its exercise, why do you spend $5k on a carbon fiber frame? If its for fun why don't you want to ride 20 miles or more at double the speed and less of the pain? That shuts them up pretty quick. I laugh at the worst Lycra guys who say its cheating when they spent $15k on their bike so they can go a couple minutes faster to get that KOM. How is that not cheating? Anyway, the reasons behind banning ebikes needs to be clearly defined on why. I bought it to ride old dirt roads, so I don't think I'll have issues and it fits my needs perfectly.

I emailed the factory to order my bike after the reviews were good. Its too cold to really ride right now anyhow. They told me to contact Luna who is the US distributor. I don't think they will sell direct anymore. Pricing is close to the same anyway and if something does break, you are much better off trying to get it squared away with Luna than dealing with China. I've bought a bunch from from Luna and they have always been great.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Congratulations!
Good to hear another happy owner with common sense comments, maybe someone should start an owners thread and we can ditch those still talking about re-design/pedal kit etc

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by macribs » Jan 06, 2018 11:47 pm

My I suggest starting a non-public forum for invites only? :wink:
As long as you post on a public forum people will post comments, and those might very well be different then yours and your opinions.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by JuiceMeUp » Jan 07, 2018 12:15 am

I took my mates girlfriend as pillion passenger for a spin today on the Sur-Ron (total weight 150KG).
It wasn't pretty sharing the foot-pegs (toes on heels), but nothing broke. My concerns about the sub-frame snapping were placated by her epic tits pressed hard against my back.
Top speed and acceleration felt the extra weight but the bike continues to surprise me.
The brake rotors are now a metallic blue from a long steep descent, but we got there with skin intact. I'd love to see regen on one of these!

Just thought I'd share as it's one of those 'Hold My Beer' moments. She now wants one.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by RemoteRoad » Jan 07, 2018 1:49 am

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 12:15 am
I took my mates girlfriend as pillion passenger for a spin today on the Sur-Ron (total weight 150KG).
It wasn't pretty sharing the foot-pegs (toes on heels), but nothing broke. My concerns about the sub-frame snapping were placated by her epic tits pressed hard against my back.
Top speed and acceleration felt the extra weight but the bike continues to surprise me.
The brake rotors are now a metallic blue from a long steep descent, but we got there with skin intact. I'd love to see regen on one of these!

Just thought I'd share as it's one of those 'Hold My Beer' moments. She now wants one.
Haha, the allure of the fairer sex, our purpose and so often downfall!

What would it take to setup regen?

It's just the observation that this bike is, at price point, far superior of other options, that makes bikefying a bit more, so appealing. I've already seen some long-term ES members (I'm a newcomer) make several suggestions which sound feasible.

I've been in contact with Luna concerning the bike. They've a bigger shipment incoming via sea (only had a handful as a test batch made up their initial inventory, of which a couple of the least desirable color remain and which seemed like a mix of at least one earlier, and later engine versions). Sounds like they will be offering a bigger battery option, speed limit retaining switching, and better forks for it for it sooner rather than later.

I got an answer of "we/I don't know, if you find out from the factory pass on to us/me" with respect to precise warranty questions (time on battery, frame, etc...).

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by madin88 » Jan 07, 2018 4:27 am

RemoteRoad wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 1:49 am
What would it take to setup regen?
At least nothing in the drive train (basically you can see it like a DD hub motor)^^

the questions are:
- does the controller feature regen braking (variable or with button), and can the BMS forward the current
- would there be enough space on the handlebar for a comfortable use of a left hand thumb throttle, or a button switch

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Hyena » Jan 07, 2018 4:27 am

NoFanBoiz wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 10:12 pm
just in case you didn't / can't read:

contact the manufacturer, ask them to build a new bike model similar to the Stealth/Qulbix, which being manufactured in China and based on the bike pricing many of you already have, should be around half to one third of the equivalent Stealth/Qulbix
Ah, there he is. As soon as something gets popular along comes nofanboiz to piss in your cereal and suggest alternatives :lol:
Given you don't seem to frequent the forum other than to make the above posts, there ARE mass produced clones of the above for the sort of price you're talking. And they're largely crap. Frames are made from the cheapest rubbish steel, which apparently needs to be so thick it's more than double the weight of the 'brand name' stuff. The suspension, brakes and battery are also the lowest common denominator. If you want something for mild street use that just looks like the others, these are fine. But if you want to throw the bike around and use it offroad the poor suspension and extra weight quickly becomes apparent, and a major detractor. No doubt they *could* do better, but for some reason they dont. I suspect it's primarily economy of scale. Surron must be relying on big numbers to make this work at these prices, and they must have ALOT of money already invested in manufacturing and development to get to this stage. Ignore the forks and the wheels and other accessory bits - just look at the frame, the suspension linkages and the other bits that are specific to this bike. Anyone who's seen it in person would agree it's some quality stuff and really not in keeping with what we usually see coming out of China.

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 12:15 am
I took my mates girlfriend as pillion passenger for a spin today...her epic tits pressed hard against my back.
It seems I've been doing it very wrong, and have instead been using the bike to take my 7 year old on adventures :lol:

I was about to report back that with just over 100kg in combined weight (more likely a single heavy rider weight) it was still quite reasonable and it was only after a long, steep descent that I had the brakes stressed to the limit (ie, smoking). And I'll know how the bike handles if I ever develop a massive 25kg beer gut. haha.
As I said straight off the bad, these bikes would be great with regen and it'd be awesome if it could be enabled in the controller firmware later on. We've already got ebikes so it'd just need activating, but we'll see if that's an option. I suspect more likely it'll be an option in future revisions.

But anyway yeah these are great for doubling small children :)
We rode the trails for an hour (same places I took you juicemeup, + more) and the little fella had a blast. Range wise we did 29km and still had 60% capacity left. It was a mix of slower riding but also alot of fast stuff and lots of steep climbs which would have been sucking down the watts. So a realistic range of 50km would be very doable I reckon. Oh and to further dismiss earlier claims of overheating, this was in 36 degree ambient temps, with 100kg on board and steep hills. So I reckon we can safely put that isolated claim to bed.

I have some footage which I'll upload soon.
ES-surron-2up.jpg
ES-surron-2up.jpg (151.28 KiB) Viewed 248 times
ES-surron-2up2.jpg
ES-surron-2up2.jpg (247.55 KiB) Viewed 248 times
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by NoFanBoiz » Jan 07, 2018 4:45 am

Hyena wrote:
Jan 07, 2018 4:27 am

Ah, there he is. As soon as something gets popular along comes nofanboiz to piss in your cereal and suggest alternatives :lol:
Given you don't seem to frequent the forum other than to make the above posts, there ARE mass produced clones of the above for the sort of price you're talking. And they're largely crap. Frames are made from the cheapest rubbish steel, which apparently needs to be so thick it's more than double the weight of the 'brand name' stuff. The suspension, brakes and battery are also the lowest common denominator. If you want something for mild street use that just looks like the others, these are fine. But if you want to throw the bike around and use it offroad the poor suspension and extra weight quickly becomes apparent, and a major detractor. No doubt they *could* do better, but for some reason they dont. I suspect it's primarily economy of scale. Surron must be relying on big numbers to make this work at these prices, and they must have ALOT of money already invested in manufacturing and development to get to this stage. Ignore the forks and the wheels and other accessory bits - just look at the frame, the suspension linkages and the other bits that are specific to this bike. Anyone who's seen it in person would agree it's some quality stuff and really not in keeping with what we usually see coming out of China.
Ah, there he is. As soon as someone posts up something....

Let me be more basic for you as you seem to require it. I'm well aware of the low cost, low quality clones already.
My suggestion re the manufacturer perhaps making a stealth/qulbix clone was because of the positive feedback on this particular manufacturer. Given they appear to be producing a moto ebike that most people seem to be happy with at a low cost, seems logical to me at least but not you, that the same manufacturer would likely also produce a high quality ebike at a low cost.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Jan 07, 2018 5:10 am

I was about to report back that with just over 100kg in combined weight (more likely a single heavy rider weight) it was still quite reasonable and it was only after a long, steep descent that I had the brakes stressed to the limit (ie, smoking). And I'll know how the bike handles if I ever develop a massive 25kg beer gut.
Hey! I resemble this remark :lol: Good to know. Motomoto reached out and wants to do a ride in Nevada. We may be meeting up a little later in the spring for a ride. Will have gopro on hand.
Ah, there he is. As soon as someone posts up something....
Could NoFanBoiz and Chalo be related? They do have similar styles.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Jan 07, 2018 5:32 am

motomoto wrote:
Dec 04, 2017 12:41 pm
Finally got some video.

I missed this earlier, Damn that was impressive Moto! What kind of range do you get on the track? What kind of range do you get trail riding? You weigh 180 pounds, is that your ready to ride weight with gear on? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Jan 07, 2018 6:41 am

In relation to the questions regarding after sales support with warranty i find it strange that Luna Cycle being the exclusive North American dealer would not pass the information on or advertise it!

As the Australian and New Zealand dealer I have been given the after-sales and warranty scope and can say that there is

A 24 month warranty on Battery, controller and charger

A 18 month warranty for motor assembly

A 12 month warranty on entire vehicle including frame, rear fork etc. Brakes,suspension,odometer,Usb power supply, switch assembly and accelerator. Wear and tear items will not be covered. Damaged items/incorrect use or non-maintained items will not be covered.

I would imagine all dealers would have this information.

I personally am still waiting on confirmation regarding time frames/shipping/costs etc for warranty claims prior to officially announcing the partnership, as i consider the after sales support to be the deal maker/breaker.

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