Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Jun 10 2018 8:09pm

spinningmagnets wrote:
Jun 10 2018 7:18pm
Whether we are talking about Europe or the USA, it appears the most dynamic and "fun" developments are happening in the off-road arena...
Don’t forget about Australia!

This weekend celebrates 6 months of the Light Bee in the land down under!

It was a gamble I took on a little known product that no westerners had seen/shown apart from “motomoto”

Thanks Kim for your assistance regarding the initial transaction.

After a lot of correspondence Australia received the first “substantial” Sur-ron export order in December 2017.
Immediately after we were offered to be the Sur-ron dealer for Australia and New Zealand

We are pleased to bring so many people happiness with such a great product.
We hope to bring even more people whatever models/versions become available when ready.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by jamilon01 » Jun 11 2018 12:47pm

I am doing suspension stuff on my bike with 11" travel front and 10" rear. At some point I will have the hot controller thing going
and have something epic.

What have people been using to replace the rear FA suspension? I've taken mine out and measured and is 10.5 in length. What is the correct fitment in mm or inch? Is the overall length how it's measured for fitting? I recently upgraded my forks and now the FA rear is just not cutting it, plus for whatever reason the rebound adjustment got stuck and i can't even move it... Have people been sticking with MB suspension or like Moto, gone the route of using MX suspension?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Jun 11 2018 12:53pm

Talking with Denzel bikes. It seems they will ship the BOXON mid and Escort mid to the USA and will provide VIN numbers. Anyone have any experience or comparison to the Sur-Ron? Doesn't seem quite as good as the Sur-ron...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 11 2018 1:19pm

jamilon01 wrote:
Jun 11 2018 12:47pm
I am doing suspension stuff on my bike with 11" travel front and 10" rear. At some point I will have the hot controller thing going
and have something epic.

What have people been using to replace the rear FA suspension? I've taken mine out and measured and is 10.5 in length. What is the correct fitment in mm or inch? Is the overall length how it's measured for fitting? I recently upgraded my forks and now the FA rear is just not cutting it, plus for whatever reason the rebound adjustment got stuck and i can't even move it... Have people been sticking with MB suspension or like Moto, gone the route of using MX suspension?
Yes, any MTB shock with a 10.5 eye to eye measurement should work provided the same spring rate is used. As far as the mounting hardware goes, you may have to build your own custom fittings/spacers if the stock ones wont fit with the new shock.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 11 2018 6:00pm

n2mb wrote:
Jun 11 2018 12:53pm
Talking with Denzel bikes. It seems they will ship the BOXON mid and Escort mid to the USA and will provide VIN numbers. Anyone have any experience or comparison to the Sur-Ron? Doesn't seem quite as good as the Sur-ron...
Putting aside all the rather dramatic differences in build quality, looks and integration, I would be extremely skeptical of the battery pack that they claim has roughly the same capacity as the one included with the Sur-Ron for 1/3 the price point. Must be generic cells which are of notoriously poor quality.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by racingame » Jun 11 2018 6:17pm

jamilon01 wrote:
Jun 11 2018 12:47pm
I am doing suspension stuff on my bike with 11" travel front and 10" rear. At some point I will have the hot controller thing going
and have something epic.

What have people been using to replace the rear FA suspension? I've taken mine out and measured and is 10.5 in length. What is the correct fitment in mm or inch? Is the overall length how it's measured for fitting? I recently upgraded my forks and now the FA rear is just not cutting it, plus for whatever reason the rebound adjustment got stuck and i can't even move it... Have people been sticking with MB suspension or like Moto, gone the route of using MX suspension?
DNM USD-8S is the alternative if you still want an upside-down fork that isn't too much expensive. If you are willing to spend more, you could upgrade to the Manitou Dorado. As regards MB suspensions, I've seen some bikes mounting a FOX fork instead of the RST Killah.

Regarding the battery pack, does anybody know if it's true that the 48V version uses KnapTech cells instead of the Panasonic? I know nobody here ever thought to buy the 48V version and probably they sell just like 5% of those, but I'm just curious, since it doesn't make any sense to me to use a different brand of cells for the lower battery version. :roll:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by stonezone » Jun 11 2018 9:37pm

Does anyone know the current limiting on the bms, AND the controller? Asking to see if I should throw together a 16s multistage pack out of the 8 4s16ah packs I have on the bench. They fit in the battery box, and I’ve already made an xt-90 to Supra-x adapter...

Would the controller be able to suck more amps vs the stock pack or is the controller the limiting factor?
LR-BB on 2014 Glory
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 11 2018 10:14pm

n2mb wrote:
Jun 11 2018 12:53pm
Talking with Denzel bikes. It seems they will ship the BOXON mid and Escort mid to the USA and will provide VIN numbers. Anyone have any experience or comparison to the Sur-Ron? Doesn't seem quite as good as the Sur-ron...
I haven't had any experience with the Escort or Boxon, however, I have ran Denzel's 24x3.00 tires and they are tough as any motorcycle tire of similar size I have ran. Looking at the Escort and Boxon, I concluded that they are not in the same relm as the Sur-Ron. Based on the pics and information I have gathered, they aren't going to handle the abuse the Sur-Ron does, or handle as well as the Sur-Ron off road wise. Between Luke running 30kw through the Sur-Ron, and Kim (Motomoto) running motorcross tracks, super moto TT tracks, and landing big air, the Sur-ron has not yet shown any signs of structural failure. I don't think these guys would even attempt these mods or ride moto X on a Denzel Ebike. I know I wouldn't. I am not saying the Boxon and Escort are bad bikes, I am saying their structural design was intended for a different style of riding.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » Jun 11 2018 10:34pm

I did a 5 month review. Probably nothing new to yall here, so I kinda forgot to post it. I'm feeling about the same today, loving to ride it a lot.


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jun 11 2018 11:24pm

stonezone wrote:
Does anyone know the current limiting on the bms, AND the controller? Asking to see if I should throw together a 16s multistage pack out of the 8 4s16ah packs I have on the bench. They fit in the battery box, and I’ve already made an xt-90 to Supra-x adapter...

Would the controller be able to suck more amps vs the stock pack or is the controller the limiting factor?
I did the resistor doubling thing soldering over the stock resistors. It didn't make a difference with the
stock controller. It took 3+ hours of intense work because there is a silicone layer sprayed over the resistors that has to be
gotten off before solder will stick. I really wanted it to be faster. It was depressing after all that work. I guess I have to
get off my butt and confront the 8000 controller. I suck at learning this stuff but eventually I figure it out.

I think 80 amps is stock

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jun 12 2018 12:42am

I just thought I would show some pictures of my 3d printed surron battery case
3d surron battery box red.jpg
3d surron boxes red.jpg

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by stonezone » Jun 12 2018 1:29am

Crap, well at least your posting to a forum where the majority can feel your pain...

So, I literally just got a tevo tornado. Would you mind posting the .stl file for that case? Looks perfect!

Back to controllers, do you know if the new sine wave controller from sir-Ron is a rebranded 8000, or their own design? As if I don’t already have enough first world problems, but I also have a VEC300 collecting dust that claims to do 200a. Problem is, I’m tired of thinking, loving the plug and play for a change. Waiting on the new controller to sail to Hawaii via Australia is killing me.
LR-BB on 2014 Glory
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B B S-HD on some sort of DH Kona frame
2017 GG GP 300 <3

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by madin88 » Jun 12 2018 1:51am

motomoto wrote:
Jun 11 2018 11:24pm
I did the resistor doubling thing soldering over the stock resistors. It didn't make a difference with the
stock controller. It took 3+ hours of intense work because there is a silicone layer sprayed over the resistors that has to be
gotten off before solder will stick. I really wanted it to be faster. It was depressing after all that work. I guess I have to
get off my butt and confront the 8000 controller. I suck at learning this stuff but eventually I figure it out.

I think 80 amps is stock
As far as i understand the thing with the BMS shunt is just that it does not cut off if you drain more amps. But it has no effect on the power of the controller.
as for instance if the BMS allows stock 80A (assumption), with half the resistance it would allow than 160A.

I believe sooner or later someone will be able to mod the controller shunt, or even by just setting higher amps in a programming software!
There might be a good chance that a software will be available because SurRon is offering Motor- Controller kits, and at least a minimum of programming would be desired like setting HVC and LVC and such important things.

So IMO it was a good start that you modded the BMS. Next thing i would do is building a new battery out of 30Q. With a different layout you definitely can put more cells into this box.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by nieles » Jun 12 2018 2:10am

motomoto wrote:
Jun 12 2018 12:42am
I just thought I would show some pictures of my 3d printed surron battery case 3d surron battery box red.jpg3d surron boxes red.jpg
nice man! i'm thinking of doing someting similar but on a smaller scale

one suggestion, make some channels in the housing to run threaded rods from the top cover to the botom cover to keep de 3D printed layers under compression. i think it will be way stronger that way.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by knoxie » Jun 12 2018 5:01am

urbanmoto wrote:
Jun 10 2018 11:28am
Any machine with an electrical system that’s non homologated falls under the U.K. and EEC machinery directive for EMC and electrical safety regulations

So the bike must have the correct CE markings (not EN it’s not a pedal cycle) and technical safety file

Otherwise not only is it illegal to import but also to distribute and use

Trading standards would have a field day, minimum penalty is not just financial but potential loss of liberty for 3 years.

You have been warned
Sorry and you are?

Who are you to sternly warn anyone? :lol: crikey a bike like this which has build quality and construction thats as good as anything ive ever seen built and you think trading standards would have a field day with it? trading standards are better spending their time and attention on goods that are badly made and would fail under the most basic safety tests.

You do know its also illegal to distribute and use cannabis :lol: just because something is "not legal" doesn't mean anyone has the right to tell others not to do it, homosexuality was illegal in the UK until 1967, get real.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Jun 12 2018 8:13am

madin88 wrote:
Jun 12 2018 1:51am

I believe sooner or later someone will be able to mod the controller shunt, or even by just setting higher amps in a programming software!
There might be a good chance that a software will be available because SurRon is offering Motor- Controller kits, and at least a minimum of programming would be desired like setting HVC and LVC and such important things.

So IMO it was a good start that you modded the BMS. Next thing i would do is building a new battery out of 30Q. With a different layout you definitely can put more cells into this box.
Working on it. Having the programming software would be the best, but so far that has not been obtained. The rest of it is buried in epoxy potting, but that's only a minor deterrent. :twisted:
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Jun 12 2018 1:50pm

Hi, guys.
Does anybody have an idea, could I charge Sur-Ron battery from 12V car power plug?
Is there any chargers on the market for this kind?
It would be great to have this option during some trips.
Any thoughts?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 12 2018 2:13pm

Uran93 wrote:
Jun 12 2018 1:50pm
Hi, guys.
Does anybody have an idea, could I charge Sur-Ron battery from 12V car power plug?
Is there any chargers on the market for this kind?
It would be great to have this option during some trips.
Any thoughts?
Inverter and a low watt charger would do it.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Jun 12 2018 3:09pm

Inverter to 110v?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Jun 12 2018 3:13pm

Uran93 wrote:
Jun 12 2018 3:09pm
Inverter to 110v?
Yup.
https://www.amazon.com/BESTEK-300W-Powe ... B004MDXS0U

But, you may want a lower wattage charger or a larger inverter. Either way, it's likely you won't be able to use the power outlet in the car and will have to wire right to the battery (using appropriate fuses, if needed)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Uran93 » Jun 12 2018 3:25pm

Thank you, pal. I guess it's because of a high current?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Jun 12 2018 5:06pm

Uran93 wrote:
Jun 12 2018 3:25pm
Thank you, pal. I guess it's because of a high current?
Thats exactly why. Inverting 12 volts to to 50+ volts or what ever the charger's minimum requirement comes at a cost.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jun 12 2018 11:16pm

I am doing suspension stuff on my bike with 11" travel front and 10" rear. At some point I will have the hot controller thing going
and have something epic.

What have people been using to replace the rear FA suspension? I've taken mine out and measured and is 10.5 in length. What is the correct fitment in mm or inch? Is the overall length how it's measured for fitting? I recently upgraded my forks and now the FA rear is just not cutting it, plus for whatever reason the rebound adjustment got stuck and i can't even move it... Have people been sticking with MB suspension or like Moto, gone the route of using MX suspension?
Yes, any MTB shock with a 10.5 eye to eye measurement should work provided the same spring rate is used. As far as the mounting hardware goes, you may have to build your own custom fittings/spacers if the stock ones wont fit with the new shock.
For the rear shock I have a Fox shock with 10.5 eye to eye and 3.5 inches travel instead of the FA 3 inch travel. I don't know
if it will work or how much extra wheel travel it will give. That is the easy route. The more involved route will involve building
new longer swingarms and offsetting chains for wider tires.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Jun 12 2018 11:21pm

motomoto wrote: ↑Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:42 pm
I just thought I would show some pictures of my 3d printed surron battery case 3d surron battery box red.jpg3d surron boxes red.jpg
nice man! i'm thinking of doing someting similar but on a smaller scale

one suggestion, make some channels in the housing to run threaded rods from the top cover to the botom cover to keep de 3D printed layers under compression. i think it will be way stronger that way.
It is just at the prototype stage and is not usable. If I get something usable I will share it.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Enginepy » Jun 13 2018 1:16pm

Hi Guys,

Got my grey Sur-Ron in yesterday from Luna. Here are some notes for the guys who are thinking about getting one. This bike was from their last pre-order sale in March. It was packaged up well and assembly was quick. Came with a 73% charge on the battery. I do like the small tool kit that is included; will be handy when on the trails. Rode about 5 total miles in my neighborhood and alleyways and its great. No issues at all so far. Here are a few notes:

Build quality is superb.
They marked all the screws so that's nice (but a bit ugly).
The grey finish on the frame is nice, but it could be a little smoother.
The cables to the handlebars need some management, so I'll work on that.
Charger appears well made, especially for a Chinese product.

Some have said that the sport mode only increased the top speed, but it does seem to have more low end power as well. I got up to 78kph last night but I wasn't wearing protective gear at the time, so won't be doing that again. I am heavier (205lbs) so I need to adjust the shocks bc they are sagging a lot when I mount.

I do feel it's a little loud, so I will clean off the corrosion inhibitor on the chain and apply proper lube this week and see if that reduces some noise. If anyone has any other setup tips, please share!

Here are a few pics of the unboxing.

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