Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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stonezone   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by stonezone » Jun 19 2018 4:38pm

My buddy made himself and me a replacement guard out of thicker aluminum. Very nice and fits like a glove.

Back to the clutch topic, the new high end gasgas txt-e comes with a clutch and 6speed tranny. 13k though. Regardless, I think a clutch is a must for higher level competitive trials at least. Enduro, probably the same but I don’t really know/care.
LR-BB on 2014 Glory
Sur-Ron
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2017 GG GP 300 <3

RIP Bobarella

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 19 2018 4:40pm

Uran93 wrote:
Jun 19 2018 2:11pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 16 2018 8:36pm
Uran93 wrote:
Jun 16 2018 2:01pm
Another issue -
Sur-Ron is a great bike, but I have an issue with lower motor guard - it is made from very thin aluminum and bent already.
It is too soft almost like a peace of paper or cardboard.
Could you suggest who and where can manufacture stainless steel type of this part?Снимок экрана 2018-06-16 в 13.51.44.png
It's probably too thin to cast otherwise I could cast one for you.

I think your best bet is to design a file and have it laser-cut for you. It would take a rather trivial amount of machine time so it should be pretty reasonable cost. Then all you have to do is bend and weld it or find someone who can.
Dear 3D TOPO, thank you for your response. I don’t think thickness is an issue. It would be great to make it much thicker and stronger than it’s now.
There are some/enough room around the motor and for attachment points it can be aligned/bended accordingly even if it’s thicker.
What do you think ?
Even if you had it the same thickness of the aluminum plate, stainless would be much much tougher.

To cast it, it would need to be a minimum of 7-8mm thick, which could weigh in close to 10-pounds (I'm guessing that figure which would be like 10% the weight of the whole bike). Cast metal isn't nearly as strong as plate too and more likely to fracture.

I think the most cost-effective and best quality part would be cut from a sheet of stainless. For me to 3-d print the pattern on my stereo-lithography printer, make an investment mold and cast it would be far more expensive than just having a sheet cut. I had suggested laser-cut but I meant water-jet cut. Around here, I can get steel water-jet cut for about $60-$100/hour of machine time. It would probably take 15 minutes to cut.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 19 2018 5:40pm

Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Jun 19 2018 5:45pm

81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 5:40pm
Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?
Aebikes.com.au has links to the YouTube channel aebikes showing unedited trail riding
No commentary no music just actual footage so you can make your own judgment

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 19 2018 6:10pm

81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 5:40pm
Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?
I've got nearly 400 miles of pretty hard tearing up the mountain here in the last 5 weeks, and its proven bomber with 100% reliability. The thing is a beast IMHO. Climbs anything I point at it.

Note that the Luna video you may be referring to might be the one that is modified to run at 32KW. That said, it can pull wheelies in a stock config, especially if you put a bigger rear sprocket on.

Not sure if my video is what you are looking for (this was one of my first rides and I was tethered to my Siberian Husky, but still hit it pretty hard):

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Marksteamnz » Jun 19 2018 6:38pm

81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 1:01pm
liveforphysics wrote:
Jun 19 2018 12:48pm
People talk lots about how critical it is to have a clutch, right up to the moment you give them an ebike to ride with adequate torque and HP, then they never mention anything clutch related again.
It’s not critical, and the rekluse is totally awesome, but there is technical stuff where a clutch still shines. There’s a reason that most pros do not use a rekluse. Trying to do a one-wheel pivot turn using just your throttle is not impossible, but it’s reallllly difficult because you can’t modulate the engagement like you can with your clutch.

But, a perfectly set up controller on an ebike might be just as good.
The latest e-motion videos show their electric trials bike doing exactly that?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWFAEq9z5tI

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Marksteamnz » Jun 19 2018 6:42pm

81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 5:40pm
Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?
This do you? Their other videos show the light Bee being back flipped into a foam pit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W702aLhYNSM

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 19 2018 6:59pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 19 2018 6:10pm
81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 5:40pm
Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?
I've got nearly 400 miles of pretty hard tearing up the mountain here in the last 5 weeks, and its proven bomber with 100% reliability. The thing is a beast IMHO. Climbs anything I point at it.

Note that the Luna video you may be referring to might be the one that is modified to run at 32KW. That said, it can pull wheelies in a stock config, especially if you put a bigger rear sprocket on.

Not sure if my video is what you are looking for (this was one of my first rides and I was tethered to my Siberian Husky, but still hit it pretty hard):
Awesome!!

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 19 2018 7:12pm

81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 6:59pm
Awesome!!
Thanks! I really need to finish my wheel cam mount get the drone up so you can see what it is doing better. :wink:

The only maintenance that I have done to the bike is tighten the chain twice, lubed it once and tightened the headset twice (though I need to do it again). Other than that, she looks no worse for the wear.

81forest   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 19 2018 7:29pm

Marksteamnz wrote:
Jun 19 2018 6:42pm
81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 5:40pm
Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?
This do you? Their other videos show the light Bee being back flipped into a foam pit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W702aLhYNSM
Thanks for the link, I enjoyed that. And the em-otion link is awesome. Wonder if the rider ever wishes he had a clutch...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by WrongWayJefe » Jun 19 2018 8:53pm

81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 5:40pm
Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?

I haven’t had a chance to ride it anywhere but on my micro-track around my property. That being said, I can ride it at around the same pace as my gas bike (yz250). I doubt it will be able to make it up the climbs we usually do, and it will probably fall back pretty quick in the open stuff. While it may replace the ttr225 I ride around the house, it definitely won’t replace the yz. To me it’s more of a play bike than anything else with the added benefit that can expand my local riding opportunities because it’s stealthy.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hillhater » Jun 19 2018 9:35pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 19 2018 4:40pm
Uran93 wrote:
Jun 16 2018 2:01pm
Another issue -
Sur-Ron is a great bike, but I have an issue with lower motor guard - it is made from very thin aluminum and bent already.
It is too soft almost like a peace of paper or cardboard.
Could you suggest who and where can manufacture stainless steel type of this part?Снимок экрана 2018-06-16 в 13.51.44.png
.

I think the most cost-effective and best quality part would be cut from a sheet of stainless. For me to 3-d print the pattern on my stereo-lithography printer, make an investment mold and cast it would be far more expensive than just having a sheet cut. I had suggested laser-cut but I meant water-jet cut. Around here, I can get steel water-jet cut for about $60-$100/hour of machine time. It would probably take 15 minutes to cut.
Just take a paper pattern from the existing plate....trace it onto a sheet of hard alloy or stainless (your choice of material and thickness )....then cut it out with a jig saw or hand angle grinder using a cut off wheel.
Bend to suit and Drill mounting holes .
Done in your yard in 30 mins !
But, warning, the difficult part will be bending to the exact shape !
Warning 2.. If you make it too strong, you risk breaking the mounting points on the frame with a big hit.
This forum owes its existence to Justin of ebikes.ca

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 19 2018 10:15pm

Hillhater wrote:
Jun 19 2018 9:35pm
Just take a paper pattern from the existing plate....trace it onto a sheet of hard alloy or stainless (your choice of material and thickness )....then cut it out with a jig saw or hand angle grinder using a cut off wheel.
Bend to suit and Drill mounting holes .
Done in your yard in 30 mins !
But, warning, the difficult part will be bending to the exact shape !
Warning 2.. If you make it too strong, you risk breaking the mounting points on the frame with a big hit.
Sounds like a good plan if he chooses to go with thicker aluminum. Stainless can be very difficult to work with - some of the hardest stuff I have had to machine (of course not as hard as titanium but its up there). Compared to mild steel its quite hard and brittle. In fact, it could break when bending if not heated to at least a dull cherry red first.

Good point about making it too strong too.
Last edited by 3DTOPO on Jun 19 2018 11:57pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Jun 19 2018 11:51pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 19 2018 7:12pm
81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 6:59pm
Awesome!!
Thanks! I really need to finish my wheel cam mount get the drone up so you can see what it is doing better. :wink:

The only maintenance that I have done to the bike is tighten the chain twice, lubed it once and tightened the headset twice (though I need to do it again). Other than that, she looks no worse for the wear.
Did you remove the forks and inspect the headset prior to retentioning?
We have found that the lower bearing carriers crack and continue to wear the lower outer bearing race which is alloy.

The headset is a cheap open ball bearing with minimal grease.

The headset is definitely a weak spot but easily upgraded with a quality sealed bearing kit and alloy top sleeve instead of plastic.

I posted pics a while back along with the worn secondary gear and belt after hitting a gritty track.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 19 2018 11:56pm

Aebrennan wrote:
Jun 19 2018 11:51pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 19 2018 7:12pm
The only maintenance that I have done to the bike is tighten the chain twice, lubed it once and tightened the headset twice (though I need to do it again). Other than that, she looks no worse for the wear.
Did you remove the forks and inspect the headset prior to retentioning?
We have found that the lower bearing carriers crack and continue to wear the lower outer bearing race which is alloy.

The headset is a cheap open ball bearing with minimal grease.

The headset is definitely a weak spot but easily upgraded with a quality sealed bearing kit and alloy top sleeve instead of plastic.

I posted pics a while back along with the worn secondary gear and belt after hitting a gritty track.
I did not remove the fork, thanks for the tip!

May I ask what the specs or a recommended product is for replacement bearings/sleeve?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Jun 20 2018 12:04am

You should be able to use any Integral headset with a 44/55 bearing set.
Top inside diameter is 44mm
Lower inside diameter is 55mm

We have used FSA and Hope brands so far.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 20 2018 12:56am

Aebrennan wrote:
Jun 20 2018 12:04am
You should be able to use any Integral headset with a 44/55 bearing set.
Top inside diameter is 44mm
Lower inside diameter is 55mm

We have used FSA and Hope brands so far.
Thanks! I assume the bottom bearing also 44/55? Its not tapered either, right?

Edit: I see you gave the diameters for both the top and bottom - should have read it better first, thanks!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Jun 20 2018 1:14am

3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 20 2018 12:56am
Aebrennan wrote:
Jun 20 2018 12:04am
You should be able to use any Integral headset with a 44/55 bearing set.
Top inside diameter is 44mm
Lower inside diameter is 55mm

We have used FSA and Hope brands so far.
Thanks! I assume the bottom bearing also 44/55? Its not tapered either, right?
The headset kit is called a 44/55

The top bearing cup is 44mm and needs to suit the 1 1/8 steerer

The bottom bearing cup is 55mm and also needs to suit the standard 1 1/8 steerer

The headset is designed for tapered headtubes but using straight 1 1/8 steerer.

I will have to post some pictures

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jun 20 2018 2:16am

Aebrennan wrote:
Jun 20 2018 1:14am
3DTOPO wrote:
Jun 20 2018 12:56am
Aebrennan wrote:
Jun 20 2018 12:04am
You should be able to use any Integral headset with a 44/55 bearing set.
Top inside diameter is 44mm
Lower inside diameter is 55mm

We have used FSA and Hope brands so far.
Thanks! I assume the bottom bearing also 44/55? Its not tapered either, right?
The headset kit is called a 44/55

The top bearing cup is 44mm and needs to suit the 1 1/8 steerer

The bottom bearing cup is 55mm and also needs to suit the standard 1 1/8 steerer

The headset is designed for tapered headtubes but using straight 1 1/8 steerer.

I will have to post some pictures
Sorry, should have read your post better before asking. So it looks like one of these would do?

Image

Thank you!

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Aebrennan » Jun 20 2018 3:24am

Yes those are the main 2 parts from Hope
Top part number Hsc2 and bottom part number HscG
You will also need a reducer for the lower from 1.5 to 1 1/8
Name “Tapered 1.5” reducer (crown)
Part number HS136S

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Dext3r » Jun 21 2018 5:31am

Lots off new images on the SURRON WeChat page.
Few foto's of the 'upgraded' bleu edition.
Looks road legal ?(rear fender, brake light, blinkers), adjustable forks an image with 5300watt, differend brake lever and new caliper design
Annyone here can read chinees?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Jun 21 2018 7:25am

Link to that page please?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hyena » Jun 21 2018 7:50am

+1 to post pics!
I've only seen this pic on their facebook page of the blue X model. Looks like a bigger sprocket and different graphics on the battery and controller but otherwise largely unchanged.
surron-x.jpg
surron-x.jpg (207.32 KiB) Viewed 1020 times
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
My build and HD video thread____. My youtube channel____ Hyena Facebook page
My bike is writing cheques my body can't cash...

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Dext3r » Jun 21 2018 10:31am

Allex wrote:
Jun 21 2018 7:25am
Link to that page please?
Lets try This is the page with all the dealers in china http://www.sur-ron.com/page196

Foto from above: http://www.sur-ron.com/page145
Where to buy: https://item.jd.com/28766053613.html

They are kind of private messages that you get in WeChat when you subscripe to an official account.
These are most of them.(some have movies)
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/h2mEA8rkkaFQuac-gRhY0Q
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/8wjN0sjBP3ywsYD74oPe0g
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/tehBf3k8GiheRx_EZihA1g
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/-_MnaSZiY6RU56YcVXFrCg
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/gK1yDiexoX3R2ieWyQXCXA

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 81forest » Jun 21 2018 1:31pm

WrongWayJefe wrote:
Jun 19 2018 8:53pm
81forest wrote:
Jun 19 2018 5:40pm
Pretty hard to find any ride reports for this bike in an off-road setting where it’s really getting thrashed pretty hard. Watching the Luna guys trying to pop wheelies in their parking lot, you can tell the bike has quite a bit of power but I have no idea what it would be like to ride on serious technical singletrack. Looks like it could break/fall apart without much abuse but who knows. Videos I’ve seen are by people with very little riding skill or experience.

Anyone have a link to a real beat-down trail test, or maybe that’s not what this bike is for...?

I haven’t had a chance to ride it anywhere but on my micro-track around my property. That being said, I can ride it at around the same pace as my gas bike (yz250). I doubt it will be able to make it up the climbs we usually do, and it will probably fall back pretty quick in the open stuff. While it may replace the ttr225 I ride around the house, it definitely won’t replace the yz. To me it’s more of a play bike than anything else with the added benefit that can expand my local riding opportunities because it’s stealthy.
Great review, about what I expected, and good to hear about the comparo to your yz. I also ride a 250cc 2smoke woods bike so probably would have a similar perspective. Much appreciated!

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