Its because the price of admission is so low, relatively speaking, and thus far, with videos I have viewed, the performance is high.I'm tipping that this bike is going down in the ES hall of fame (code named 'The Polarizer')
Unfortunately i don't own this bike, but my guess would be following:Rix wrote: ↑Dec 21, 2017 7:54 pmIronic Jay, I just sent you an email asking about the performance of this bike. It seems that these bikes bursting what..6kw appear to pull harder than your 9kw Fighter. Your Teaser appears to show this. What are your thoughts? Does it pull hard with less power input over a DD hubbie due to the mechanical advantage of the mid drive?I dont know if it's the knobbies or the mid drive but it's something I noticed pretty quick.
Excellent info Jay, I am surprised your Alpha was faster than the Surron given you had things turned down. I guess I thought it would be different because the Surron looked quick in your teaser vid. Maybe its time for an Alpha video.Hyena wrote: ↑Dec 22, 2017 4:09 amRe the power thing, actually the first thing I did when I had a second rider was drag race the surron against my alpha. Juicemeup came over and we went for a quick scoot on my alpha and the surron. The alpha is capable of much more of course but I turned it down to 5.99kw in the CA to make it a fair fight. I predicted from my 'bum dyno' that the hub motor actually had more torque, and when I lined up for a race with a rolling start from about 10km/hr the hub pulled about 3/4 of a length in front pretty much straight away, then held it until the surron started to run towards top speed, then the hub being a faster wind kept pulling further and further away. That was how it played out, right Luke ?
As stated the surron DOES feel better smashing around offroad - it has heavier duty suspension and with the moto wheels front and rear is also takes punishment more easily. Hub motor aside handling wise the surron also felt like it had an overall lower centre of gravity. When jumping back on the alpha I did notice how much higher up I felt perched.
You are dreaming if you think that other riders of REAL bicycles will not notice your motorcycle on their trails. And they are their trails: they belong there and you do not. If your intent is to have all electric bicycles banned from all bicycle trails and paths then go ahead and poach wherever you want.macribs wrote: ↑Dec 22, 2017 6:54 pmSome people will live their entire life by the book. Never color outside the lines. Other "free spirited" souls tend to have a more pragmatic way of life, meaning they might bend a few rules, or even break some but they try to go about their things without causing problems. I understand what you are saying, and a respect that. But I also see it from the hippie side as well. If the laws and regulations don't fit maybe the laws are wrong?
What I am saying is if you ghost pedal at sane speed down a bike lane or walk path and do so with care and slow down if you pass someone, ride without causing problems or putting the the fear of god into people most likely you will do fine as long as the bike got pedals. I agree it is not a bicycle, it is a e-motorcycle by looking at the motor output. But it can be ridden as a bicycle and if done just that I see no problems.
And I do think the law enforcement agents tend to look at it that way too. There are more urgent crimes to investigate. There are more serious criminals to catch.
I am so with you on this!macribs wrote: ↑Dec 23, 2017 11:35 amYou might be right, or the maybe the MTB community should focus on real issues rather then drawing up a bogey man that does not exist? Some people are so narrow minded. I wonder what those people are like at their job, in their family life and in life in general?
Are those the people that drop dead with a heart attack before turning 50 because they are always so stressed out by taking in all the problems of the world around them? Maybe they could have a better life if they focused on themselves and what they are doing and how they can help world become a better place, rather then trying to change each and every person around them?
Even if I was a MTB guy, a daily bicycle commuter or just an ordinary hipster with a cool fixie bike that look like it comes straight out of a 1950 magazine why should I care if other people use my paths as long as they do so with respect, without causing trouble? If the emotorcycle with pedals move the same speed as bicycles, don't make any noise or don't ride hooligan style why would that bother me? Maybe the bicycle riders day will be much better if they just enjoy their bicycle ride and let others enjoy their now matter how real their pedals are?
If you feel like protesting, maybe you should pick a worthy case? There are lots to pick and choose from, and they all need dedicated people who like to speak their mind about all the wrong doing in the world. And there are really worthy cases too. Look good and hard and you might find a place to call home.
Hey Mac, in my experience, the narrow minded types are narrow minded in all facets of his/her lives. Changing those folks is not impossible, but highly unlikely. The efforts of getting ebikes accepted should not be wasted on this group. The reality of ebikes is, unless there is a multi speed gear reduction transmission involved, any ebike pumping out 4 kw or less wont have enough power to brake traction on any terrain, except maybe sand, Ice, mud, or snow. But then again, a pedal power only MTB rider could technically brake traction on these types of surfaces as well. This one fact is what most anti E-Bikers don't understand. They got grand delusions of ebikes hitting a berm in the trail, getting on the throttle, and throwing a roost 20ft behind them as they accelerate out of the berm. And they don't know better because thats what they see on TV with MX racing. I have tossed around the idea of making some informational videos reflecting this fact, however, I believe the anti ebike types would just find something else to complain about.Some people are so narrow minded. I wonder what those people are like at their job, in their family life and in life in general?
The truth. My question is, how do the folks that get it fix it? Ebikes like the Sur-Ron should be allowed access to any off road trails and roads. I do alot of riding in NorCal and I couldn't ride the Sur-Ron anywhere there because it can't be pedaled. Problem is, to ride this bike off road, one from Nevada needs to acquire an out of state offroad permit to keep the California forest rangers happy. Last I checked, to get a permit, the machine needs a VIN number. Nevada has even more stringent requirements now. We have to register the machine as an "Off Road Only" vehicle through the Stat'es DMV. That needs a Vin. Dont confuse this with making the bike street legal, thats way more involved. With my ebikes that can be pedaled, none of these issues are an issue. Just stay off designated MTB trails. I guess the bottom line is, I like the Sur-Ron, but if I owned one, I would be very very limited to where I could ride it.Common sense and open mindedness has left the building and been replaced by controversy. A sad time in our society if you ask me.
The main reason to build something similar with pedals is to have longer range to do real trails. My first motorcycle, the one I used to learn biking was a Yamaha WR250F quite a few years ago 120kg weight. My target is to make trails i did with that gas enduro, to make over 100km offroad and with serious uphills, with electric bikes at half weight compared to modern gas enduros.madin88 wrote: ↑Dec 21, 2017 1:37 pmThere are enough options. You can build up a Qulbix 76R with a BBSHD if you like, or buy that carbon bike with the torque sensing Bafang middrive from Luna.Alex Imreh wrote: ↑Dec 21, 2017 6:45 amMaybe a few e-bike builders could make a cooperative financing, to design and produce a frame similar with this, but for a speed pedalec with bicycle seat & pedals, 45km/h. 1# no more need of EU homologation, plates. 2# with an open arhitecture we could use "standard middrives" like BBSHD or Tongsheng and standard bicycle components. 3# 2-2.5kwh batteries + such engines + pedaling could be enough to make real offroad trails, over 100km, or road trips above 200km.
The problem as already mentioned it will not be legal in most countries.
This bike from SurRon is a moped for replacing 50cc gassers in the future, and in terms of power and speed it even could be seen as a replacement for the 125cc gassers.
It's no pedelec.