Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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derb   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by derb » Nov 16 2018 3:43am

Allex wrote:
Nov 16 2018 3:36am
How many Amps did you see during peaks?
It is very difficult to see this small digit on the display when accelerating hard.
I had once seen 79A, but did not really look often at it. I have the X-Controller.

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derb   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by derb » Nov 16 2018 3:50am

New Tires:
Pirelli Scorpion
Tested on wet trails yesterday. I am very satisfied with the grip

20181112_223928.jpg
20181112_224033.jpg
20181112_224143.jpg
20181112_185804.jpg
20181112_205211.jpg

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Nov 16 2018 4:47am

Are those Zefal mudguards, what size?
How do you like mt5s? Just installed them on mine.
You really should change to 52T at the rear, works great!
Attachments
Screenshot 2018-11-16 at 10.50.59.jpg

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » Nov 16 2018 5:23am

8) Wow, love the Supermotard look :thumb:
I can't justify the price for myself yet but boy what a great machine!
Found the EU road legal version for €4200,-: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/deta ... 8879fa3813

I wonder if the full power can be "released" with a simpel software update? Has anyone tinkered with the road legal restricted version already? With a licence plate and insurance it would be easier to justify the price and be able to ride the streets without constantly watching out for the police...

Apparently KSR-group is importing them for theEU:
http://www.ksr-group.com/index.php/imag ... ly_de.html

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ziltoid81   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ziltoid81 » Nov 16 2018 5:40am

Found a few shops in germany which sell at this price, even one for less (3900) but its preorder and you have to wait till feb.
But the bikes are sold out quick in general.

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derb   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by derb » Nov 16 2018 6:06am

@Allex
Yes, these are Zefal FM30 fenders.
I cut open a fatbike tube and used it to protect the suspension.
I had tried the 58 tooth sprocket with the stock controller, but I did not like the reduced speed at the top.
From my feeling, the X controller has the same punch at low speed with the 48 teeth as the stick controller with the 58 tooth sprocket. So now I'm happy with 48 tooth and X controller.

@SlowCo & ziltoid81
I bought my Sur Ron in Bolzano (Italy) at Velovendo and can recommend this shop.
Last month, when my battery indicator did not work anymore (pixel error), I got a new battery sent in very quickly and the defective battery was then picked up by DHL.
He even put the X-Controller in the paket, even though he did not even have the money in his bank account (I was not that fast ;-))
So perfect service and fast response times at mails. That's how I love that!

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ziltoid81   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ziltoid81 » Nov 16 2018 11:36am

derb wrote:
Nov 16 2018 6:06am


@SlowCo & ziltoid81
I bought my Sur Ron in Bolzano (Italy) at Velovendo and can recommend this shop.
Nice, free shipping to germany.....

Edit:

Unfortunately its the offroad version......

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Nov 16 2018 2:40pm

derb wrote:
Nov 16 2018 3:50am
New Tires:
Pirelli Scorpion
Tested on wet trails yesterday. I am very satisfied with the grip


20181112_223928.jpg20181112_224033.jpg20181112_224143.jpg20181112_185804.jpg20181112_205211.jpg

Very nice,

Would you happen to have the original Sur-Ron tires around, could you weigh one of them and post the weight.

Do you know the weight of the new tires you put on?

How do you find the feel of these tires compared to the original tires when riding on the street? Like can you feel the knobs more or do they feel like you are riding on knobby tires? Or are they smooth like any bicycle tire?


Thanks

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Jonathan1981   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Nov 16 2018 3:09pm

derb wrote:
Nov 16 2018 6:06am
@Allex
Yes, these are Zefal FM30 fenders.
I cut open a fatbike tube and used it to protect the suspension.
I had tried the 58 tooth sprocket with the stock controller, but I did not like the reduced speed at the top.
From my feeling, the X controller has the same punch at low speed with the 48 teeth as the stick controller with the 58 tooth sprocket. So now I'm happy with 48 tooth and X controller.

@SlowCo & ziltoid81
I bought my Sur Ron in Bolzano (Italy) at Velovendo and can recommend this shop.
Last month, when my battery indicator did not work anymore (pixel error), I got a new battery sent in very quickly and the defective battery was then picked up by DHL.
He even put the X-Controller in the paket, even though he did not even have the money in his bank account (I was not that fast ;-))
So perfect service and fast response times at mails. That's how I love that!
How do you like those fenders? They look good. I'm assuming you just bought two and using it for the rear...? any special technique required for mounting?

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Jonathan1981   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jonathan1981 » Nov 16 2018 3:10pm

Allex wrote:
Nov 16 2018 3:36am
How many Amps did you see during peaks?
Here is a battery case extender with a new hatch. The pack is like 22s10p
:D :D :D Nice. What sort of power and range increase (if any) are you getting?

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Nov 16 2018 4:12pm

SlowCo wrote:
Nov 16 2018 5:23am
8) Wow, love the Supermotard look :thumb:
I can't justify the price for myself yet but boy what a great machine!
Found the EU road legal version for €4200,-: https://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/deta ... 8879fa3813

I wonder if the full power can be "released" with a simpel software update? Has anyone tinkered with the road legal restricted version already? With a licence plate and insurance it would be easier to justify the price and be able to ride the streets without constantly watching out for the police...

Apparently KSR-group is importing them for theEU:
http://www.ksr-group.com/index.php/imag ... ly_de.html
all you need to derestrict the L1e version is reconnect the restriction wire to unlock full power and both power modes..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

SlowCo   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by SlowCo » Nov 16 2018 4:41pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Nov 16 2018 4:12pm
all you need to derestrict the L1e version is reconnect the restriction wire to unlock full power and both power modes..
Really? That would be too easy :D :thumb:

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ziltoid81   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ziltoid81 » Nov 16 2018 6:54pm

A hidden switch will do the job.
I doubt they bust you when you have it insured and papers.
In germany they can take your bike and get it to an inspector/expert, but they usually only do it when youre going crazy and you have nothing.

They also wont notice the x controller, when it looks clean and out of factory.
Any possibility to get regen via switch/lever?

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Nov 17 2018 10:54am

I just saw this on the Sur-ron site and wanted to post it. Sur-ron states this about their battery pack:
51.8V25AH Battery specs
This is 1,295 watt-hours.

I just thought it was more from the discussions.

It one point I was going to stuff 10 each of the 4S 16 amp multistars in the battery compartment.

That would be 2,368 watt-hours. That would be 82% more battery. I should look at that idea again.

Dext3r   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Dext3r » Nov 17 2018 11:46am

motomoto wrote:
Nov 17 2018 10:54am
I just saw this on the Sur-ron site and wanted to post it. Sur-ron states this about their battery pack:
51.8V25AH Battery specs
This is 1,295 watt-hours.

I just thought it was more from the discussions.

It one point I was going to stuff 10 each of the 4S 16 amp multistars in the battery compartment.

That would be 2,368 watt-hours. That would be 82% more battery. I should look at that idea again.
Lol, someone did it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74QeMBGQWXw
Is this you?

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Nov 17 2018 2:57pm

51.8V 25AH Sur-Ron Battery spec?

I thought it was 2,000 watt hours.

If this is the case, this explains why everyone is getting crappy range if its only a 1,275 watt hour pack. However, I"m not sure if this is correct that it has only a 1,275 watt hour pack.

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ziltoid81   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ziltoid81 » Nov 17 2018 3:48pm

I calculated round 1600wh out of 176 pana pf cells till 3V......if you go over 3A per cell, less.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=498

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scrambler   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by scrambler » Nov 17 2018 4:59pm

They list two models for the battery
http://www.sur-ron.com/bee_electric?_l=en
48V / 25Ah = 1200 Wh
60v / 32Ah = 1920 Wh

In more details ( https://www.aebikes.com.au/specifications.html ):
Battery Pack 48 Volt:
Configuration: 14S10P
Cells: 140 Knaptech 18650 2500mAh
Capacity: 25Ah, 1200Wh

Battery Pack 60 Volt:
Configuration: 16S11P
Cells: 176 Panasonic NCR18650PF 2900mAh (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... h6m0zy-KiT)
Capacity: 32Ah, 1920Wh

The last one is the one sold by Luna in the US

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Nov 17 2018 7:47pm

Dext3r wrote:

motomoto wrote: ↑Nov 17 2018 8:54am
I just saw this on the Sur-ron site and wanted to post it. Sur-ron states this about their battery pack:
51.8V25AH Battery specs
This is 1,295 watt-hours.

I just thought it was more from the discussions.

It one point I was going to stuff 10 each of the 4S 16 amp multistars in the battery compartment.

That would be 2,368 watt-hours. That would be 82% more battery. I should look at that idea again.
Dext3r wrote:
Lol, someone did it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74QeMBGQWXw
Is this you?
No, that's Adam and Bruno at Adam's place in Australia. Looks like we are thinking alike. I was looking at it in November last year.
20s 32 amphr.jpg

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Nov 17 2018 7:53pm

Offroader wrote:
51.8V 25AH Sur-Ron Battery spec?

I thought it was 2,000 watt hours.

If this is the case, this explains why everyone is getting crappy range if its only a 1,275 watt hour pack. However, I"m not sure if this is correct that it has only a 1,275 watt hour pack.
The 51.8V 25AH must be the 48 volt pack. Oops, sorry guys. :confused:

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Nov 18 2018 11:51pm

ziltoid81 wrote:
Nov 17 2018 3:48pm
I calculated round 1600wh out of 176 pana pf cells till 3V......if you go over 3A per cell, less.

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=498
Yup the range is probably about right at 25 miles with 176 of those cells. You are only getting about 1500 watt hours.

I use 280 cells of NCR18650GA rated at 3450, but I really only get 3200 MAH from them, which gives me about 3000 watt hours and I get 50 miles on my bike.

Even though my bikes battery would be rated at 3477 watt hours based on the SANYO spec, I always say its a 3000 watt hour pack because that is what it actually outputs.

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ziltoid81   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ziltoid81 » Nov 19 2018 2:49am

At the end of the day the pf is a budget cell......anything above 3A per cell will reduce the overall output significantly.
What does the controller pull max?

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derb   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by derb » Nov 19 2018 6:47am

Offroader wrote:
Nov 16 2018 2:40pm
Very nice,

Would you happen to have the original Sur-Ron tires around, could you weigh one of them and post the weight.

Do you know the weight of the new tires you put on?

How do you find the feel of these tires compared to the original tires when riding on the street? Like can you feel the knobs more or do they feel like you are riding on knobby tires? Or are they smooth like any bicycle tire?


Thanks
Weight of tires:
Original CST: 2096g
Pirelli Scorpion MX32 MidSoft (Front): 2338g (complete Wheel: 4768g)
Pirelli Scorpion MX Extra (Rear): 2278g (complete Wheel: 5487g)

I did not want too heavy tires, I noticed that in my Etricks the acceleration went back when I used 3.5 "wide motocross tires instead of the 2.5" wide bicycle tires. And the Etricks had 7.5kW peak performance.

If you drive the bike very slowly you will notice the bigger studs. Otherwise, they ride just like the others on the road. But I have to say that I barely drive on the street.

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derb   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by derb » Nov 19 2018 7:09am

ziltoid81 wrote:
Nov 19 2018 2:49am
At the end of the day the pf is a budget cell......anything above 3A per cell will reduce the overall output significantly.
What does the controller pull max?
This Battery Gauge (https://de.aliexpress.com/item/100A-New ... 74edbe2f8a) show 78A max. As a result, the voltage drops to 58V at full load (with full battery) corresponds to a peak power of 4.5kW which is also displayed in the display of the small device. I have the X-Controller.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » Nov 19 2018 9:11am

ziltoid81 wrote:
Nov 19 2018 2:49am
At the end of the day the pf is a budget cell......anything above 3A per cell will reduce the overall output significantly.
What does the controller pull max?
I saw someone post 65A stock and 83A with the X-controller. But, that is peak. Sustained current draw is much lower.

From the datasheet, at 2C discharge and 3V low voltage cutoff, looks like 2500 mAh.
http://www.omnitron.cz/download/datashe ... 8650PF.pdf

2.5 Ah * 11p = 27.5 Ah
3.6 V * 16S = 57.6 V

27.5 Ah * 57.6 V = 1584 Wh usable

1584 Wh / 30 mile range = 52.8 Wh / mi, which seems a bit high, but reasonable. That would estimate 2200 watt draw at full speed (42 mph). Which is about 40A or 3.6A per cell. Not too bad.

Also, noticed this in the datasheet: "At temp below 10C, charge at 0.25C rate"

So, with the pack below 50F, it should be charged at less than 8A. I am charging now at 5A to 90% using the Cycle Satiator.

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