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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 07 2018 8:13pm
by RemoteRoad
Aebrennan wrote:
Jan 07 2018 6:41am
In relation to the questions regarding after sales support with warranty i find it strange that Luna Cycle being the exclusive North American dealer would not pass the information on or advertise it!

As the Australian and New Zealand dealer I have been given the after-sales and warranty scope and can say that there is

A 24 month warranty on Battery, controller and charger

A 18 month warranty for motor assembly

A 12 month warranty on entire vehicle including frame, rear fork etc. Brakes,suspension,odometer,Usb power supply, switch assembly and accelerator. Wear and tear items will not be covered. Damaged items/incorrect use or non-maintained items will not be covered.

I would imagine all dealers would have this information.

I personally am still waiting on confirmation regarding time frames/shipping/costs etc for warranty claims prior to officially announcing the partnership, as i consider the after sales support to be the deal maker/breaker.
Great Aebrennan! Much appreciated. Yeah, didn't find that info posted on their site and the person I put the questions to gave me the reply I indicated.

Looking forward to Luna getting a stock of the color I want in!

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 08 2018 5:42am
by knoxie
Hmm there maybe a reason Luna isnt posting warranty details yet because if you buy the bike from Luna isnt the warranty going to be dealt with by them? do they have to offer the same warranty that the factory do? and if you buy the bike from Luna the factory wont likely deal with the end user for warranty claims, before anyone puts down any money with Luna I would get written confirmation from the them re the warranty, you are after all paying a premium over the factory price to get a US warranty.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 08 2018 11:39am
by dirkdiggler
Hyena-
I see you already replaced the bars and grips. What did you end up getting? I was looking at downhill bars with 3" or 80mm rise last night. Might try the Diety highside 760 with the 80mm rise. My one quip with the bike is why they would put flat bars and a low profile stem on this? Doesn't make any sense for a bike you don't pedal. Probably based on Asian heights, at 6 ft. its way off. No biggie for me though, as I do need some flat bars for another bike and the Sur-ron ones from Zoom seem to be decent quality. Everything else seems to be top notch. Just wondering if going true MX bars would be a better option.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 08 2018 5:20pm
by RemoteRoad
knoxie wrote:
Jan 08 2018 5:42am
Hmm there maybe a reason Luna isnt posting warranty details yet because if you buy the bike from Luna isnt the warranty going to be dealt with by them? do they have to offer the same warranty that the factory do? and if you buy the bike from Luna the factory wont likely deal with the end user for warranty claims, before anyone puts down any money with Luna I would get written confirmation from the them re the warranty, you are after all paying a premium over the factory price to get a US warranty.
Insofar as the stock components of the bike goes, I take it Luna would primarily act as a pass through and facilitator for the factory warranties - ie the factory carries most of the cost burden. Would seem unlikely that they'd easily abandon factory supports at the start (new and unproved bike/company) in the name of a sweeter purchase price and higher profit margin, but I suppose that's possible.

Now with respect to their own modifications and additions, that's a different question.

One of the big pluses with EVs in general for me is their sublime simplicity and general bullet-proofness if basic quality controls are in place. I'd say batteries are the most natural weak spot in the quality chain. On the whole much less risk in EVs as compared to, say internal combustion, in my view.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 09 2018 9:51am
by knoxie
Yes cant be sure if Luna will offer the same terms so its worth checking before you part with your money, its a super exciting bike thats for sure, early adopters like Hyena and his mates will give this thing a good test and there are a few moto crossers who have got their hands on them too so thats as good as abuse as they will likely get.

Im interested to see how that drive belt wears and how the battery pack performs over time, im pretty sure the frame and forks are going to be bullet proof, weak link items are the controller,battery and belt, pretty sure that the motor is going to be OK as it has thermal and overload protection, im sure the only thing that wears is your tires and your chain and maybe your teeth a bit from all the grinning.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 09 2018 9:57am
by macribs
Belt wear would likely be a non-issue. As long as Sur Ron used a quality vendor those belts will outlast chain and sprocket by a huge margin. Think of it, timing belts are used on our cars and easily last 200 000 km.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 09 2018 1:22pm
by devo1223
Rix wrote:
Jan 07 2018 5:10am
I was about to report back that with just over 100kg in combined weight (more likely a single heavy rider weight) it was still quite reasonable and it was only after a long, steep descent that I had the brakes stressed to the limit (ie, smoking). And I'll know how the bike handles if I ever develop a massive 25kg beer gut.
Hey! I resemble this remark :lol: Good to know. Motomoto reached out and wants to do a ride in Nevada. We may be meeting up a little later in the spring for a ride. Will have gopro on hand.
Ah, there he is. As soon as someone posts up something....
Could NoFanBoiz and Chalo be related? They do have similar styles.
Can I invite myself along to this little meetup with Motomoto, Rix? Even just to see if I could keep up with my hubmotor. I can add a another gopro and drone and beer.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 09 2018 6:52pm
by Hyena
dirkdiggler wrote:
Jan 08 2018 11:39am
Hyena-
I see you already replaced the bars and grips. What did you end up getting?
I went with protaper mx bars and grips and switched out the stem for a BMX one too. It's not 100% ideal as it doesn't have the knurled grippy part for the stem in the centre but it seems to be holding on OK after tightening up on the first ride. It's Definitely a nice upgrade even for someone a bit shorter. As you said putting flat bars on a bike like this is a bit silly.

I also upgraded the headlight. The stock one was a bit of a joke and this new one now puts out alot more meaningful light for night riding. I havent given it a long test but so far it seems to run OK on the stock wiring loom / DC converter.
I drilled a hole in the cross brace and mounted the light bar there. It seemed to be the best place for it, and looks pretty cool too IMO. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up to my heavy offroad bashing around.
suron111.jpg
suron111.jpg (207.78 KiB) Viewed 2098 times

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 9:05am
by fechter
In looking at the law in California, it seems like the Sur-Ron might qualify as a moped and be legal to ride on the street, at least in California.
California Moped (Motorized Bicycle)
Moped Type CVC 406(a)
A moped meeting CVC 406(a) requires the operator to have a valid Class M1 or M2 motorcycle license. The vehicle must be equipped with:
• Operative pedals for propulsion by the rider, or no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy.
• An automatic transmission.
• A motor producing less than 4 brake horsepower (hp), capable of propelling the vehicle no faster than 30 MPH on level ground.
• A moped will be issued special license plates and identification cards, which require a one-time $21 fee.
• To obtain these items, you'll need to fill out a Motorized Bicycle Application (Form REG 230)
The only catch is it needs to have a VIN and an "engine number" and the speed needs to be limited to 30mph (easy enough).

Do these things have anything that resembles a VIN stamped onto the frame?

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 3:16pm
by Rix
The only catch is it needs to have a VIN and an "engine number" and the speed needs to be limited to 30mph (easy enough)
Same in Nevada, and the rider does need a class C driver's license (with or without a MC endorsement) even though registering and insuring are not required for road use. Ironically since my previous post about OHV requirements, there is no examples listed for "Mopeds" as a requirements. There is no examples listed as exemptions either. Could be a loop hole.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 3:17pm
by Rix
Hyena wrote:
Jan 09 2018 6:52pm
dirkdiggler wrote:
Jan 08 2018 11:39am
Hyena-
I see you already replaced the bars and grips. What did you end up getting?
I went with protaper mx bars and grips and switched out the stem for a BMX one too. It's not 100% ideal as it doesn't have the knurled grippy part for the stem in the centre but it seems to be holding on OK after tightening up on the first ride. It's Definitely a nice upgrade even for someone a bit shorter. As you said putting flat bars on a bike like this is a bit silly.

I also upgraded the headlight. The stock one was a bit of a joke and this new one now puts out alot more meaningful light for night riding. I havent given it a long test but so far it seems to run OK on the stock wiring loom / DC converter.
I drilled a hole in the cross brace and mounted the light bar there. It seemed to be the best place for it, and looks pretty cool too IMO. It'll be interesting to see how it holds up to my heavy offroad bashing around.

suron111.jpg
Looks great Jay. BTW, are still of the impression to leave this machine stock power wise? I just find it very un Hyena like to leave things stock :lol:

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 5:58pm
by Aebrennan
fechter wrote:
Jan 10 2018 9:05am
In looking at the law in California, it seems like the Sur-Ron might qualify as a moped and be legal to ride on the street, at least in California.
California Moped (Motorized Bicycle)
Moped Type CVC 406(a)
A moped meeting CVC 406(a) requires the operator to have a valid Class M1 or M2 motorcycle license. The vehicle must be equipped with:
• Operative pedals for propulsion by the rider, or no pedals if powered solely by electrical energy.
• An automatic transmission.
• A motor producing less than 4 brake horsepower (hp), capable of propelling the vehicle no faster than 30 MPH on level ground.
• A moped will be issued special license plates and identification cards, which require a one-time $21 fee.
• To obtain these items, you'll need to fill out a Motorized Bicycle Application (Form REG 230)
The only catch is it needs to have a VIN and an "engine number" and the speed needs to be limited to 30mph (easy enough).

Do these things have anything that resembles a VIN stamped onto the frame?
The bikes have both a Vin and engine numbers, stamped on the headset and motor.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 7:48pm
by motomoto
I was looking at the 'motor driven cycle' catagory for California.

A motor-driven cycle has 149cc or less engine size. CVC §405
A motor-driven cycle has to be registered and the driver must have a motorcycle license (M1).

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detai ... otorcycles


You can ride it everywhere except on freeways.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 8:18pm
by fechter
motomoto wrote:
Jan 10 2018 7:48pm
I was looking at the 'motor driven cycle' catagory for California.

A motor-driven cycle has 149cc or less engine size. CVC §405
A motor-driven cycle has to be registered and the driver must have a motorcycle license (M1).

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/detai ... otorcycles

You can ride it everywhere except on freeways.
That might work too, but requires insurance.

So is there a VIN number that the DMV will accept?

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 8:24pm
by macribs
17 digits I think I once read is the requirement for vin number.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 10 2018 8:53pm
by Aebrennan
I think that they only have 14 🤔

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 1:53am
by Rix
macribs wrote:
Jan 10 2018 8:24pm
17 digits I think I once read is the requirement for vin number.
You are correct. Pretty much any vehicle after 1980 has 17 digit vin. In Nevada there are provisions for the DMV to issue a VIN in the event the manufacture's VIN isn't in compliance. Its a process and I don't know what all it entails.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 1:57am
by Aebrennan
The bikes actually have a 15 digit Vin on the headset

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 3:03am
by NoFanBoiz
Aebrennan wrote:
Jan 11 2018 1:57am
The bikes actually have a 15 digit Vin on the headset
not a valid VIN:

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration requires all motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles (ATVs) or "four wheelers" and "three wheelers" to display this 17-digit unique vehicle identification number on the frame. source: https://www.carfax.com/company/vehicle- ... mbers-vins

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 3:12am
by Aebrennan
I should have said headtube which is part of the frame.
I am sure that if you require 17 digits they will add a couple for you.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 3:52am
by NoFanBoiz
Aebrennan wrote:
Jan 11 2018 3:12am
I should have said headtube which is part of the frame.
I am sure that if you require 17 digits they will add a couple for you.
Along with a honda/suziki/yamaha/kawasaki badge. Doesn't mean it's authentic.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 3:57am
by Aebrennan
If the factory stamps the number on the bike, isn’t the number then authentic if done by the manufacturer...
What is a non authentic VIN?

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 4:30am
by JuiceMeUp
Some guy on the forums deems it inauthentic. Then it be so.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 5:06am
by NoFanBoiz
JuiceMeUp wrote:
Jan 11 2018 4:30am
Some guy on the forums deems it inauthentic. Then it be so.
Some guy on the forums and in China deems it authentic. Then it be so.

Except no transport department will register it. Do some research on VIN's before spouting your rubbish.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Posted: Jan 11 2018 5:34am
by NoFanBoiz
Aebrennan wrote:
Jan 11 2018 3:57am
If the factory stamps the number on the bike, isn’t the number then authentic if done by the manufacturer...
No, the VIN includes a World Manufacturer Identifier as part of the character string and adding two random characters won't comply.
Aebrennan wrote:
Jan 11 2018 3:57am
What is a non authentic VIN?
See above.