Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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trazor   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by trazor » May 04 2019 4:59pm

I hear these long rants about forks and quality and durability and dream about 10 meter jumps you are doing with you bikes. I think it is time to begin posting what we are talking about. For example, here is how I twisted my DNM forks. I can re-clamp them but after any other big hit they come back to twisted position. Anyway, I'm happy with them because is what I can afford and ride without fear of trashing more money than I can spend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr-LoRF ... u.be&t=457

If you check the video, my front tire was flat, that was one problem when braking, the other problem where between the seat and the handlebars.

And here is how I broke a Marzocchi 380 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYrMMuwD9jI
One leg got stuck and I had to pull it out and remove one bushing (the bottle was slightly bent breaking bushing alignment). It works until this day with 3 bushings and I don't feel any play :lol:

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 04 2019 10:15pm

Tommm wrote:
May 03 2019 3:27pm
You can get a host of different spring strengths on ebay for x-fusion:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R ... rv1+spring

For the sur ron you might need a firm or x-firm, or a xx-firm if you plan on jumping it. They come with the normal strength as new unless specified.
Thanks. Yes, it is a good idea to change the spring rate. Most people never do this because they don't know how and they never opened up their fork before. Many times its hard to get any good you tube videos on how to service the fork, especially if you do not have a very common fork.

This is the one advantage of an air spring is that you can easily change your spring rate. I sometimes do drops to flat ground and easily bottom out the fork. It will be nice to mess around with the air spring PSI to see if it makes landing these high jumps any easier.

When I had my hub motor bike the heavy hub motor used to just kill the rear suspension to the point that it wasn't worth messing around too much with the suspension because it so limited you on what the bike could do. That extra 25-30 LBS of weight in the rear wheel just killed the bike and limited its performance because once that rear tire hit anything it would violently throw up the rear of the bike.

With the Sur-Ron you are not limited or bottle necked by this anymore so you can start to mess more around with the suspension.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 05 2019 7:28pm

Got pulled over by a cop today. I was going down my street almost to my house when I heard the siren whoop and the lights were flashing. I pulled into my driveway and the cop got out of his car. I asked "what's up?". He asked me "how many CCs is that thing?" I said "it's electric. It's got insurance and a plate". He said "I didn't see any turn signals or anything on it". I said "sure it's got turn signals" and switched on the ignition and turned on the turn signal and showed him. He said "Oh, it's all integrated into the tail light". Then he said "the speed limit on this road is 25. You were going 35-36mph" I said "I'll keep it down". He got back in his car and drove off.

There's no way I was going that fast really. Maybe 30mph. I'll have to watch the rear view better from now on...
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » May 05 2019 8:16pm

fechter wrote:
May 05 2019 7:28pm
Got pulled over by a cop today. I was going down my street almost to my house when I heard the siren whoop and the lights were flashing. I pulled into my driveway and the cop got out of his car. I asked "what's up?". He asked me "how many CCs is that thing?" I said "it's electric. It's got insurance and a plate". He said "I didn't see any turn signals or anything on it". I said "sure it's got turn signals" and switched on the ignition and turned on the turn signal and showed him. He said "Oh, it's all integrated into the tail light". Then he said "the speed limit on this road is 25. You were going 35-36mph" I said "I'll keep it down". He got back in his car and drove off.

There's no way I was going that fast really. Maybe 30mph. I'll have to watch the rear view better from now on...
Yikes! Which turn signals / brake light do you use? I need to add them.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 06 2019 7:58am

n2mb wrote:
May 05 2019 8:16pm
Yikes! Which turn signals / brake light do you use? I need to add them.

Adding turn signals and brake lights was a bit challenging, but not too hard. Lots of wires.
You can see what I did here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2&start=25

Technically, I think it's legal to ride without turn signals during the daytime if you use hand signals, at least it used to be many years ago.

I'm sure the cop saw me whiz by and thought it was some kid on an unlicensed dirt bike, which is not uncommon in my area. My rear battery makes it hard to see the plate unless you are directly behind the bike. I might have to see about making the plate more visible on my setup.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » May 06 2019 8:14am

fechter wrote:
May 06 2019 7:58am
n2mb wrote:
May 05 2019 8:16pm
Yikes! Which turn signals / brake light do you use? I need to add them.

Adding turn signals and brake lights was a bit challenging, but not too hard. Lots of wires.
You can see what I did here:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 2&start=25

Technically, I think it's legal to ride without turn signals during the daytime if you use hand signals, at least it used to be many years ago.

I'm sure the cop saw me whiz by and thought it was some kid on an unlicensed dirt bike, which is not uncommon in my area. My rear battery makes it hard to see the plate unless you are directly behind the bike. I might have to see about making the plate more visible on my setup.
Great! I saw that light. Is the brake light bright enough? I bought a similar one, but it is super dim.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 06 2019 10:11am

n2mb wrote:
May 06 2019 8:14am
Great! I saw that light. Is the brake light bright enough? I bought a similar one, but it is super dim.
I took mine apart and re-configured the LEDs. Originally the brake just made the tail LEDs a little brighter by going through a different resistor. Now I have fewer LEDs lit on tail and additional LEDs light up on brake so there is a size change in addition to a brightness change. Much more noticeable when the brake comes on.

Caution: the switches in the brake levers can't handle much current. Over about 100mA and the contacts can stick. For higher powered lights, use a transistor to boost it or a small relay.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » May 06 2019 10:54am

fechter wrote:
May 06 2019 10:11am
n2mb wrote:
May 06 2019 8:14am
Great! I saw that light. Is the brake light bright enough? I bought a similar one, but it is super dim.
I took mine apart and re-configured the LEDs. Originally the brake just made the tail LEDs a little brighter by going through a different resistor. Now I have fewer LEDs lit on tail and additional LEDs light up on brake so there is a size change in addition to a brightness change. Much more noticeable when the brake comes on.

Caution: the switches in the brake levers can't handle much current. Over about 100mA and the contacts can stick. For higher powered lights, use a transistor to boost it or a small relay.
Yup, I'm adding a mosfet. What voltage do you get with the brakes pressed and not pressed? And are the two brakes shorted internally to combine to one signal?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » May 06 2019 2:12pm

n2mb wrote:
May 06 2019 10:54am
Yup, I'm adding a mosfet. What voltage do you get with the brakes pressed and not pressed? And are the two brakes shorted internally to combine to one signal?
The brake lever switches are both in parallel. One side goes to the 12v dc-dc converter output. Other side goes to the controller (high level brake input). Goes high when you pull the lever. I put my LED brake light from the controller side of the switch to ground. You could drive a FET gate directly with 12v.

On my light, the brake and tail have a common negative ground. This means the switch booster needs to be on the high side.

Here's one way to do it using a transistor in a follower circuit.
Brake Switch Booster 1.jpg
Brake Switch Booster 1.jpg (33.84 KiB) Viewed 2102 times
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by johnrobholmes » May 08 2019 10:29am

I can report that the BMS has extremely low quiescent current. Broke my leg 4 months ago (so no riding lately) and the battery has been sitting for at least 6 months total now with hardly a drop to the voltage or % on the display. I've been monitoring monthly. Very pleased.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by freeflow » May 08 2019 1:58pm

To build a own battery pack would cells from a Tesla module be a option? Came across a module from a P85 for 700 euros which I could use to build 2 packs in the end.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Duncan75 » May 08 2019 6:29pm

My Sur-Ron came with the DNM forks and they were a little sticky. I had this stuff that I bought in Lidl laying around, so I tried
spraying it on the stanchions. It actually helped to a degree and the fork is now smoother :)
Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 09 2019 1:03am

Got both new forks in the mail this week.

Image

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 09 2019 11:26am

Let us know how they are!
Allex wrote:
Apr 25 2019 6:26am
210cells is whats really fits inside with honeycomb layout and holders(for safety)
This will be a 16s13p so 39Ah instead of stock 32Ah with some good cells
Finally done with this and went with 30Q cells
Here is the voltage sag comparison
Before, 6.14V sag
IMG_6220.jpg
IMG_6220.jpg (169.26 KiB) Viewed 1794 times
After, 2.67v
IMG_6409.jpg
This gives you a bit more Watts in total so on a fully charged stock bike I should have 4600W and with 30Q pack 4800W
Last edited by Allex on May 09 2019 4:38pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 09 2019 12:30pm

Since your new pack has ~half the sag, you should be able to draw double the power from it (for same cell stress/heating).

Time for a controller upgrade!!! :-) That motor loves to eat big power!!!
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 09 2019 12:42pm

Yeah I am with you on that one Luke! Did you install another breaker on the ASI bike?
The battery was pain in the ass to build, really tight when all the cables needs to be tucked in on top of the case.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by n2mb » May 09 2019 3:27pm

Nice! So, 40% increase in range? Maybe 45 miles on the road?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 09 2019 4:30pm

Allex wrote:
May 09 2019 11:26am
Let us know how they are!
Allex wrote:
Apr 25 2019 6:26am
210cells is whats really fits inside with honeycomb layout and holders(for safety)
This will be a 16s13p so 45Ah instead of stock 32Ah with some good cells
Finally done with this and went with 30Q cells
Here is the voltage sag comparison
Before, 6.14V sag
IMG_6220.jpg

After, 2.67v
IMG_6409.jpg

This gives you a bit more Watts in total so on a fully charged stock bike I should have 4600W and with 30Q pack 4800W
I'm confused?

Finally done with what? the stock pack or didn't you build this with 3500 Sanyo cells?

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 09 2019 4:39pm

went with 30q as I said so 39Ah

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 09 2019 8:11pm

I assume this makes you think using the 30Q is a better option then the 3500 MAH Sanyo GA cells?

I have to make a similar decision. I am still leaning on the Sanyo cells because they work so well on my hub bike.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by liveforphysics » May 09 2019 8:15pm

30Q is for hotrodders.

I didn't run through the breaker.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » May 10 2019 2:34am

Exactly, they are not better than GA they are just different.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » May 10 2019 6:34am

Exactly, but I guess you felt the GA cells would not offer enough amps and this is why I have asked. I will have to make a similar determination taking into account the voltage drop and the maximum amps I would want.

I still lean towards the 3500 cells because the extra capacity may be worth it over higher peak amps.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » May 10 2019 8:29am

3500mah cells??? i never seen this in real world on powerful e-bike.
3500mah wil be more like 3300mah.

The PF cells 16S-11P batterie on the sur-ron is more like 57,6Vx30,25=1742Wh in real.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by freeflow » May 11 2019 1:32am

Allex wrote:
May 09 2019 12:42pm
The battery was pain in the ass to build, really tight when all the cables needs to be tucked in on top of the case.
What was the build cost?

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