Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jul 25 2019 1:26am

Merlin wrote:
Jul 25 2019 12:39am
Since Iam from Europe I have nothing to do with Luna and his oversea stuff. But this hair loving guy disqualified himself in his podcast asking the surron guys why they don't used bicycle chains....
Yeah, that was seriously stupid and insulting; belittling Sur Ron's engineering expertise by someone who obviously is not an engineer.

I also disagree with him advocating for switching to timing belts for off road. I only ride off-road (which is primarily what the Sur Ron is intended for according to Sur Ron), and Eric swears the timing belt is adequate for off-road use since they have a dirt pit in their back yard and got a little dirty.

I would much rather have slightly louder solution than something that might break on me 12 miles out in the wilderness with no way to fix it in the field. And even if a chain breaks all you need is a spare link. For the city, I completely agree that a belt is better, and if it breaks, you're not out in the middle of no where. But please don't talk Sur Ron into switching to only use timing belts.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Jul 25 2019 3:10am

kitaoka wrote:
Jul 24 2019 11:55pm
And 'if you are skeptical' of my affiliation with Luna
By the way, the definition of affiliation is:
(1) to bring into close association or connection
Since you were a Luna moderator, on Luna's first Sur Ron "podcast", have personal pictures of a factory tour including Eric et al, let them use your photos, etc. clearly that meets the definition. I mean, how could you have been on their "podcast" and their "moderator" if you didn't have some kind of close connection or association?

Whither you get compensated in one manor or another has nothing to do with the word affiliation. :roll:

sverona   1 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sverona » Jul 25 2019 4:24pm

Should I buy now or wait? I am in CA and have decided to buy a Sur-Ron from Luna. My question is whether to buy one now or wait for the newer version that is supposedly coming in "soon". Does anyone know what the changes will be (besides the new fork) and how much more it will cost? I would buy one today, but I don't want to find out that if I had waited a little longer I would have had the upgraded version. Thank you in advance for your help.

Steven

LightBeeCommuter   1 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by LightBeeCommuter » Jul 25 2019 4:30pm

Edit nvm got it
Last edited by LightBeeCommuter on Jul 26 2019 12:22am, edited 1 time in total.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Jul 25 2019 7:21pm

sverona wrote:
Jul 25 2019 4:24pm
Should I buy now or wait? I am in CA and have decided to buy a Sur-Ron from Luna. My question is whether to buy one now or wait for the newer version that is supposedly coming in "soon". Does anyone know what the changes will be (besides the new fork) and how much more it will cost? I would buy one today, but I don't want to find out that if I had waited a little longer I would have had the upgraded version. Thank you in advance for your help.

Steven
That's anybody's guess. The "old" version works fine for me so far. Most of the upgrades you could do yourself later.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Jul 27 2019 2:43pm

They have a new version of the Sur-Ron coming out?

Hopefully they get rid of the 26" fork and build it around a 27.5"fork. Maybe design the swingarm to fit a belt drive without cutting anything.

Other than that it will be interesting what they update from the old Sur-Ron.

I personally have no issues with the chain anyway. The noise makes you feel like you have a motor and sounds cool when riding.

Upgrading the brakes was also a worth it, now I can easily lock up the rear wheel and spin the bike around. Gives you much more control of the bike.

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Jul 27 2019 5:27pm

Offroader wrote:
Jul 27 2019 2:43pm
They have a new version of the Sur-Ron coming out?

Hopefully they get rid of the 26" fork and build it around a 27.5"fork. Maybe design the swingarm to fit a belt drive without cutting anything.

Other than that it will be interesting what they update from the old Sur-Ron.

I personally have no issues with the chain anyway. The noise makes you feel like you have a motor and sounds cool when riding.

Upgrading the brakes was also a worth it, now I can easily lock up the rear wheel and spin the bike around. Gives you much more control of the bike.
pretty much only thing new is rockshox front fork option, and that can be added aftermarket.. also an upgraded steering bearing headset.. my question is when will the homolgated VIN version be available in usa, most ppl live in / near cities and technically the usa surron is "not legal on public roads" stock..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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ziltoid81   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ziltoid81 » Jul 27 2019 6:14pm

Joachim wrote:
Jul 20 2019 12:12pm
eco mode touring 55Ah battery.
152km/avs 37kmh/battery voltage 51.9Vdc/ 3.24Vdc per cell.
Image
Picture when your battery is mounted?
Does it fit with the stock cover?

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Jul 27 2019 8:23pm

Na hast dich doch getraut nu? :lol:

Joachim   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Jul 28 2019 12:32pm

ziltoid81 wrote:
Jul 27 2019 6:14pm
Joachim wrote:
Jul 20 2019 12:12pm
eco mode touring 55Ah battery.
152km/avs 37kmh/battery voltage 51.9Vdc/ 3.24Vdc per cell.
Image
Picture when your battery is mounted?
Does it fit with the stock cover?
Stock cover doesnt fit so i have to make a new one.
No pictures....i have to instal en adjust a new controller+display(nucular 12F)
and later i wil make a custom cover for the bigger battery....100mm higher than the original battery so this looks like a bigger fuel tank on a regular gas bike .

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Liu   100 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Liu » Jul 29 2019 11:30am

Offroader wrote:
Jul 27 2019 2:43pm
They have a new version of the Sur-Ron coming out?

Hopefully they get rid of the 26" fork and build it around a 27.5"fork. Maybe design the swingarm to fit a belt drive without cutting anything.

Other than that it will be interesting what they update from the old Sur-Ron.

I personally have no issues with the chain anyway. The noise makes you feel like you have a motor and sounds cool when riding.

Upgrading the brakes was also a worth it, now I can easily lock up the rear wheel and spin the bike around. Gives you much more control of the bike.
Yes, I think chain is good. Noise is safer for pedestrians and don't need install fake noise equipment :lol:

All new models of electric cars sold in the European Union must now make artificial noise under certain conditions, reports BBC News. Acoustic Vehicle Alert Systems (aka, AVAS) will need to be installed in new models of hybrid and electric cars introduced from today onward, and all existing models by July 2021.

Joachim   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Aug 01 2019 4:04pm

More silent and even more range if i want with new nucular 12F controller.
Best upgrade for a sur-ron...even with stock battery more power/topspeed/silent/real varregen and a lot more :thumb:
torque mode...later i switch to speed and the bike was realy alive :twisted: 8.5Kw peak power in 16S/60V battery 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSGm9k_tnxQ

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Aug 01 2019 5:18pm

speed throttle doesnt change anything in power.
its just (for now) that speed puts all trq in from the first 1/3 of throttle.

Joachim   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Aug 02 2019 2:29am

Merlin wrote:
Aug 01 2019 5:18pm
speed throttle doesnt change anything in power.
its just (for now) that speed puts all trq in from the first 1/3 of throttle.
Yes i like this because the other modes feels a litlle stange/late response on the throttle.
in torque+speed i peakt 7+Kw and in speed i peakt 8.5Kw....in speed mode you can wheely easy and is way
faster from a stand stil 0kmh-50kmh.

freeflow   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by freeflow » Aug 02 2019 3:08am

Joachim wrote:
Aug 02 2019 2:29am
Merlin wrote:
Aug 01 2019 5:18pm
speed throttle doesnt change anything in power.
its just (for now) that speed puts all trq in from the first 1/3 of throttle.
Yes i like this because the other modes feels a litlle stange/late response on the throttle.
in torque+speed i peakt 7+Kw and in speed i peakt 8.5Kw....in speed mode you can wheely easy and is way
faster from a stand stil 0kmh-50kmh.
Original battery?

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Merlin   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Aug 02 2019 5:11am

Joachim wrote:
Aug 02 2019 2:29am
Merlin wrote:
Aug 01 2019 5:18pm
speed throttle doesnt change anything in power.
its just (for now) that speed puts all trq in from the first 1/3 of throttle.
Yes i like this because the other modes feels a litlle stange/late response on the throttle.
in torque+speed i peakt 7+Kw and in speed i peakt 8.5Kw....in speed mode you can wheely easy and is way
faster from a stand stil 0kmh-50kmh.


When you get used to it make another try ;)
If you didn't get same power output you simply didn't opend the throttle fast (wide) enough.

This was allready discussed in the nucular group.

If you Hammer the throttle fully, output is same.

But smoothness is not that easy /nice as trq mode.

Compare by yourself.::
Start in trq mode.

Roll slowly (2-4kph)
Stand up
Put your left arm behind your back.
Now ride narrow circles to both sides.


Now try in speed mode :mrgreen:

Joachim   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Aug 02 2019 11:28am

I understand what you mean and I'm not going to try it myself in speed mode..
... the sur-ron flies from under you if you are unlucky :lol:

I will give it a try in the other torque+speed/torque settings and then open direct full throttle, from a stand stil-something that I normally don't do quickly with an electric bike with serious power! see if it also peaks over 8Kw

Joachim   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Aug 02 2019 11:32am

freeflow wrote:
Aug 02 2019 3:08am
Joachim wrote:
Aug 02 2019 2:29am
Merlin wrote:
Aug 01 2019 5:18pm
speed throttle doesnt change anything in power.
its just (for now) that speed puts all trq in from the first 1/3 of throttle.
Yes i like this because the other modes feels a litlle stange/late response on the throttle.
in torque+speed i peakt 7+Kw and in speed i peakt 8.5Kw....in speed mode you can wheely easy and is way
faster from a stand stil 0kmh-50kmh.
Original battery?
voltage is the same(16S/60V) and the cells also(Panasonic ncr pf)..but there are 19 cells in parallel, stock have 11 cells in parallel so can handle more discharge amps+have like 1kwh more energie/extra range.

erinmarshall.invent@gmail.com   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by erinmarshall.invent@gmail.com » Aug 02 2019 6:15pm

Well after 4 days of reading throught this thread i bought a Sur Ron from Luna in LA.

======Background=======

I used to be a ebike builder, built a total of 4 bikes ( and a eboard) before i dropped out of college and joined the navy, my last build was a Mxus 4t with ferrofluid and hubsinks pushing about 12kw if i remember right.( built to a EEB Frame)
paired with some big ass Sabvoton controller and 84v 30ah of a Turnigy Graphene lithium battery i built.
I have experience with many controllers and batteries Lyen, Powervelocity, Crystlyte(this one is still at home), Sabvoton, Ping, Turnigy(Nano, Graphene, Standards), Zippy, etc.

=====Current========
Im stationed on Naval Base San Diego, and use the Sur Ron to commute back and forth to my ship, which is about 10 miles one way,
I also own a DRZ400sm with 11k miles, and a 07 4runner 4wd. I do all the work on all my vehicles minus tire changes.
That said, i am also very hard on all my vehicles, if it says it can go offroad, im taking it up a mountain :twisted: .
I held nothing back after buying the Sur Ron, 3 days after purchase I took it thru the hardest trail i could find.
Which tested my physical abilities as well!!

SOOOOO with all that stated, i would like to say that the Sur Ron is very robust(minus the flimsy bash plate)
I thrashed the hell out of it on a very technical singletrack/ enduro trail in 90 degree weather, for about 2 hours.
It didnt even break a sweat!!
Heres some videos



Part 2 was less technical and more flowy


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Offroader   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 02 2019 6:46pm

Nice, the bike is unbreakable, except for the bash guard.

The deal is the Sur-Ron takes all that fun we had building our past ebikes away, but I don't miss that anymore. There is absolutely no reason anymore to build ebikes for the most part, you will never match the quality of the Sur-Ron. Of course you can always do a brake, controller, and battery upgrade. Even building your own battery pack should become not worth it because someone will mass produce a drop in battery pack for this bike sometimes soon, that is the beauty of a mass produced ebike. You think I"m going to mess around welding a battery pack together when I can buy a mass produced one for probably a couple hundred dollars more than I can build it myself, no thank you.

The same reason you don't see anyone building dirt bikes, or building mountain bikes, finally got around to Ebikes. You will almost never match the quality of a properly built mass produced bike.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 02 2019 6:54pm

Offroader wrote:
Aug 02 2019 6:46pm
There is absolutely no reason anymore to build ebikes for the most part, you will never match the quality of the Sur-Ron.

The same reason you don't see anyone building dirt bikes, or building mountain bikes, finally got around to Ebikes. You will almost never match the quality of a properly built mass produced bike.
Can't say I completely agree. There are plenty of folks converting bad ass 250's etc., to electric, often with 30KW of power.

Since all they are doing is dropping in a motor, controller and battery - the build can be better than the original bike. And I have to say KTM doesn't exactly make junk. :wink: I would say that if anything - KTM build quality is up a notch or two from the Sur Ron.

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Aug 03 2019 12:33am

erinmarshall.invent@gmail.com wrote:
Aug 02 2019 6:15pm
Well after 4 days of reading throught this thread i bought a Sur Ron from Luna in LA.
Looks like some good fun on those trails. Congrats, and enjoy!

Joachim   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Joachim » Aug 03 2019 3:32pm

my sur-ron is almost like I would like to have it, a handlebar with 70mm rise and new brake pads-
with extra cool body / aka ice tech are the last parts I ordered. overview of my sur-ron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVQnvcdl404

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sYnSBG » Aug 03 2019 11:01pm

Hey Guys,

ill get a DVO Emerald 26“ at a really low price, is it compatible with the LBX 2019?

Thanks (:

edit*

i think i need new bearings for the fork, is there a simple type for sur ron and upgrade forks?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 04 2019 8:07am

sYnSBG wrote:
Aug 03 2019 11:01pm
Hey Guys,

ill get a DVO Emerald 26“ at a really low price, is it compatible with the LBX 2019?

Thanks (:

edit*

i think i need new bearings for the fork, is there a simple type for sur ron and upgrade forks?
You can get this new headset, assuming that is what you are referring to. They have all the right sized parts for a 1 1/8 straight steerer. If your DVO emerald is tapered then you will have to get something different.

https://lunacycle.com/cane-creek-forty- ... t-bearing/

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