Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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Rix   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Jan 31 2018 11:59am

Aebrennan wrote:
Jan 31 2018 3:17am
I will have 58T sprockets in a few weeks!

Soon many Americans will be riding!

Yeeee Haaaa
I wonder if there a green one for some a$$hole in Fallon?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by dirkdiggler » Jan 31 2018 5:55pm

Finally saw the Luna Cycle pedal kit. Looks better than what was out there before. Kind of like what I envisioned with the pedal sprocket just touching the chain. More of a compliance thing than anything functional. I actually already got busted on my bike from a *itch *ss cop who had nothing better to do. It was my fault for riding where I knew I'd get issues. Just a dirt road that is up the street from home, but it was a beautiful day full of lycra mt. bikers and hikers. I was enjoying myself and riding at a good pace up the dirt road and went through a gate blocked for the winter. I stopped where the road started getting muddy and to check out the view. As I started to go back down the road I passed a KTM mx bike hauling up the road. A few seconds later a cop stops me. I was pissy with him becaused I knew what was coming and I'd just had another experience with an over zealous cop the week before that had given me a speeding ticket. Plus the KTM guy was smarter and just kept hauling up the road to the top. This cop's job is to police the mt. bike trails. The mayor just happened to be hiking with his wife on the road and they were all sorts of upset people were riding motorcycles on the road. The cop actually gave me a ticket for going 25mph in a 15mph zone. As he is writing the ticket ten mountain bikers fly by us going 30mph downhill. Why didn't they get tickets I asked? It was because they had to put in effort to go that fast he said. I told him gravity was doing all the work. What a jerk! Likely I got a ticket because he had nothing else to go on and just didn't want to see me smiling. He was telling me that they were going to ban all e-bikes on the trails there. I've got some work to do now with the city council. Some rules make no sense to me and people don't understand the reasons behind the existing laws. I asked the cop how much sense it makes for the downhillers to travel up this dirt rode with their F-350 diesel truck spewing dirt and fumes only to ride down the trails. Instead we could just enjoy the ride up as well as the ride down. He kept saying, that the ebikes have a motor on them. What does that matter? If they are going too fast, yes their's a problem. If they are tearing up the trails, yes their's a problem. Mt. bikers do the same thing, ride too fast and ride muddy trails, why aren't they banned. Is the weight an issue? Should we ban fat people that ride bikes? The motor laws were written because a 450 mx shouldn't be riding on the trails for lots of reasons and that's what a motorized vehicle meant when the laws were written. In theory your kids shouldn't be riding their electric scooter on the paved trails, but really should that be illegal?
Sorry for the rant, It was three weeks ago and I'm still pissed! Who knows how the pedals would have helped. I love the bike even with the $150 fine. Thanks also for re-opening the thread. I missed reading about the bike. Crazy people in this world! Here's the pic of the pedals.

Image

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Skaiwerd » Jan 31 2018 6:28pm

dirkdiggler wrote:
Jan 31 2018 5:55pm
Finally saw the Luna Cycle pedal kit. Looks better than what was out there before. Kind of like what I envisioned with the pedal sprocket just touching the chain. More of a compliance thing than anything functional. I actually already got busted on my bike from a *itch *ss cop who had nothing better to do. It was my fault for riding where I knew I'd get issues. Just a dirt road that is up the street from home, but it was a beautiful day full of lycra mt. bikers and hikers. I was enjoying myself and riding at a good pace up the dirt road and went through a gate blocked for the winter. I stopped where the road started getting muddy and to check out the view. As I started to go back down the road I passed a KTM mx bike hauling up the road. A few seconds later a cop stops me. I was pissy with him becaused I knew what was coming and I'd just had another experience with an over zealous cop the week before that had given me a speeding ticket. Plus the KTM guy was smarter and just kept hauling up the road to the top. This cop's job is to police the mt. bike trails. The mayor just happened to be hiking with his wife on the road and they were all sorts of upset people were riding motorcycles on the road. The cop actually gave me a ticket for going 25mph in a 15mph zone. As he is writing the ticket ten mountain bikers fly by us going 30mph downhill. Why didn't they get tickets I asked? It was because they had to put in effort to go that fast he said. I told him gravity was doing all the work. What a jerk! Likely I got a ticket because he had nothing else to go on and just didn't want to see me smiling. He was telling me that they were going to ban all e-bikes on the trails there. I've got some work to do now with the city council. Some rules make no sense to me and people don't understand the reasons behind the existing laws. I asked the cop how much sense it makes for the downhillers to travel up this dirt rode with their F-350 diesel truck spewing dirt and fumes only to ride down the trails. Instead we could just enjoy the ride up as well as the ride down. He kept saying, that the ebikes have a motor on them. What does that matter? If they are going too fast, yes their's a problem. If they are tearing up the trails, yes their's a problem. Mt. bikers do the same thing, ride too fast and ride muddy trails, why aren't they banned. Is the weight an issue? Should we ban fat people that ride bikes? The motor laws were written because a 450 mx shouldn't be riding on the trails for lots of reasons and that's what a motorized vehicle meant when the laws were written. In theory your kids shouldn't be riding their electric scooter on the paved trails, but really should that be illegal?
Sorry for the rant, It was three weeks ago and I'm still pissed! Who knows how the pedals would have helped. I love the bike even with the $150 fine. Thanks also for re-opening the thread. I missed reading about the bike. Crazy people in this world! Here's the pic of the pedals.

Image
Is it me, does that crank look like it’s too far back? Guess that thing is smallish and yer arse is more in the back of the seat, not in that curved part. Maybe that it’s right on the rear tire. Prob less noticeable with the bike tires. Just looks funny to me.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by SlowCo » Jan 31 2018 6:39pm

Skaiwerd wrote:
Jan 31 2018 6:28pm
Is it me, does that crank look like it’s too far back? Guess that thing is smallish and yer arse is more in the back of the seat, not in that curved part. Maybe that it’s right on the rear tire. Prob less noticeable with the bike tires. Just looks funny to me.
It looks funny and too far back because it is funny and too far back. It is only to make the bike a "legal e-bike" in some parts of the world.
ebike.jpg
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Hyena » Jan 31 2018 6:43pm

johnrobholmes wrote:
Jan 31 2018 11:21am
Anybody gotten past 1600km?
I'll have to check, my button actually fell out so I have to jam a piece of wire in there now if I want to check my stats!
I've been doing alot of riding but probably haven't gotten this far yet. Maybe 1000km ?
My back tyre is pretty much toast - a combination of soft compound, my rocky terrain around here and perhaps an overly enthusiastic application of throttle!
But referencing the above comments about range and opportunistic outings, most of my rides are only around 40km and I come back with around 30% remaining. I did a bit of 2 up riding with my youngest son over the holidays so they were a little bit shorter, around 30km and 1 hr.
Rix wrote:
Jan 31 2018 11:59am
I wonder if there a green one for some a$$hole in Fallon?
I misread that on my phone and didn't see it was you posting and thought "wow what are the chances of there being 2 of them " :lol: :P

dirkdiggler wrote:
Jan 31 2018 5:55pm
Finally saw the Luna Cycle pedal kit. Looks better than what was out there before.
That IS what was out there before. That's not a Luna kit, it's straight from the factory - you can see it in this conversion tutorial. It looks like they've just slackened off the chain and added in the pedal chainring but kept the rear sprocket. This will atleast stop you losing the bottom end with a tiny rear sprocket, but as you said makes pedaling it even less of a actual practicality.
surron-pedal.jpg
surron-pedal.jpg (67.76 KiB) Viewed 2136 times

A few seconds later a cop stops me. I was pissy with him becaused I knew what was coming
Bummer. I don't know what the cops are like in your town but it sounds like you failed the attitude test straight off the bat. Especially when you're in the wrong, being pissy ain't never gonna get you off. But if his job is solely to police mtb trails it sounds like you were gone from the get go.
As he is writing the ticket ten mountain bikers fly by us going 30mph downhill. Why didn't they get tickets I asked? It was because they had to put in effort to go that fast he said.
Yeah, that part sucks! If you're going to enforce on the basis of speed limit you've gotta be fair. If they're speeding around peds they probably deserve a ticket more than you. And with gravity pushing them they couldn't stop as quickly either. We had a case here a while back where a lycra on a road bike got pinged for blasting through a school zone over the limit, but I reckon that's fair enough. You hit a kit at 50kmhr on a road bike and see how well they come off.

But yeah, alot of the laws are against us, which is why all of us need to keep a somewhat low profile to be able to keep enjoying doing what we're doing. These bikes ARE motorcycles, they're just very quiet. And unless you're riding somewhere that has banned mx bikes solely because they're disturbing the peace you can't really be pissy if you get pulled up. Personally, I think these are in the 'if a tree falls in a forest' category. If you're not riding dangerously, not tearing up the trails and not making noise to draw negative attention, does it really matter if no one is there to see you ? :)
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Merlin » Jan 31 2018 9:12pm

those pedals *LMAO
cat eye plastic pedals....on this bike. its like trying to improve the mona lisa with a pencil *lol

anyway...did i missed something in this "pedal update"?
switching the chainring to half the teeth 1/3 of the original to pedal?

has he installed secretly a gearbox or is the new topspeed 100mph now? :lol:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by waynebergman » Jan 31 2018 9:34pm

I wonder how rotating one crank arm assembly 180 degrees would work for getting the pedals to leverage the weight into the frame more like a regular placed MC foot peg. What I am thinking is ......if both pedals are lined up with each other (not 180 degrees apart) you could have them much more forward and actually anchored to the frame so the pedals would be inline with each other like regular Motor Cycle foot pegs.

If there was an assembly even on one side of the frame to anchor even one of the two crank arms to the frame you would be able to use the pedals anchored as foot pegs in Motor Cycle mode and also centered in the length of the wheel base better. If you really needed to have pedal you could pull one crank arm and rotate it 180 degrees and you are back into trying to fool them mode or pedaling home if you run out of juice.

I love these bikes, looks like super fun. .........wayne

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by tigcross » Jan 31 2018 11:18pm

But yeah, alot of the laws are against us, which is why all of us need to keep a somewhat low profile to be able to keep enjoying doing what we're doing. These bikes ARE motorcycles, they're just very quiet.
Indeed, this is a problem that I've been wrestling with for awhile. We want electric two wheel vehicles, but not the complications of an actual VIN identification, registration or insurance. Part of me feels like we should be able to do this because if we use these bikes as transportation we are helping cut down on emissions, but the other part of me feels that we shouldn't go that fast on an unregistered and uninsured vehicle. I have found that with The Electrom (dad's weird scooter as my kids call it), I keep my top speed to about 45 kph, and because of the generator drive pedaling system, I am always pedaling. That seems to keep the cops around here happy as I've been riding it for almost two years and have yet to be pulled over.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 01 2018 12:14am

dirkdiggler wrote:
Jan 31 2018 5:55pm
Finally saw the Luna Cycle pedal kit. Looks better than what was out there before. Kind of like what I envisioned with the pedal sprocket just touching the chain. More of a compliance thing than anything functional. I actually already got busted on my bike from a *itch *ss cop who had nothing better to do. It was my fault for riding where I knew I'd get issues. Just a dirt road that is up the street from home, but it was a beautiful day full of lycra mt. bikers and hikers. I was enjoying myself and riding at a good pace up the dirt road and went through a gate blocked for the winter. I stopped where the road started getting muddy and to check out the view. As I started to go back down the road I passed a KTM mx bike hauling up the road. A few seconds later a cop stops me. I was pissy with him becaused I knew what was coming and I'd just had another experience with an over zealous cop the week before that had given me a speeding ticket. Plus the KTM guy was smarter and just kept hauling up the road to the top. This cop's job is to police the mt. bike trails. The mayor just happened to be hiking with his wife on the road and they were all sorts of upset people were riding motorcycles on the road. The cop actually gave me a ticket for going 25mph in a 15mph zone. As he is writing the ticket ten mountain bikers fly by us going 30mph downhill. Why didn't they get tickets I asked? It was because they had to put in effort to go that fast he said. I told him gravity was doing all the work. What a jerk! Likely I got a ticket because he had nothing else to go on and just didn't want to see me smiling. He was telling me that they were going to ban all e-bikes on the trails there. I've got some work to do now with the city council. Some rules make no sense to me and people don't understand the reasons behind the existing laws. I asked the cop how much sense it makes for the downhillers to travel up this dirt rode with their F-350 diesel truck spewing dirt and fumes only to ride down the trails. Instead we could just enjoy the ride up as well as the ride down. He kept saying, that the ebikes have a motor on them. What does that matter? If they are going too fast, yes their's a problem. If they are tearing up the trails, yes their's a problem. Mt. bikers do the same thing, ride too fast and ride muddy trails, why aren't they banned. Is the weight an issue? Should we ban fat people that ride bikes? The motor laws were written because a 450 mx shouldn't be riding on the trails for lots of reasons and that's what a motorized vehicle meant when the laws were written. In theory your kids shouldn't be riding their electric scooter on the paved trails, but really should that be illegal?
Sorry for the rant, It was three weeks ago and I'm still pissed! Who knows how the pedals would have helped. I love the bike even with the $150 fine. Thanks also for re-opening the thread. I missed reading about the bike. Crazy people in this world! Here's the pic of the pedals.

Image
Sorry about the fuzz harassing you Dirk. If it would have been me, I would have chatted you up about the Sur-Ron and told you to have a nice ride. For what its worth, and I will leave it at this, I disagree with some of the chicken shit enforcement I have seen over the years from fellow officers. I am happy to say, as of Feb 2, 2018, I will never ever work patrol again. Moving on, I wonder if you would have "ghost pedaled" the Sur-Ron like Jay demonstrated in his video if it would have gotten you off the hook? :lol: I still laugh my a$$ off when I see that video. Anyway, just remember that not all cops are donut munching sissies that hide behind their badges. I suggest you fight this in court under the premises of no one was being endangered by an unsafe act.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by litespeed » Feb 01 2018 7:34am

Great reply Rix! As he said, make a stand and hopefully gain access to ride.

Tom
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by DanGT86 » Feb 01 2018 8:25am

JRH,

Your PMs are disabled so I tried to contact you through the HH website. I'll be visiting the offroad park and motocross track near columbia in the next month or two. I was hoping I could talk you into meeting us out there with the Sur-Ron. I'd love to try it out and I think you'd have a blast riding it on the MX track. I also wanted to let you know about a few ebike races on kart tracks around St. Louis and Illinois. Send me a PM if you are interested.

Oops, sorry everybody. I was looking at a different page of this thread where JRH had been the last poster. Guess this is really out of context here.

Either way, everybody should come race in st louis MO memorial day weekend! Or meet me at the offroad park! :D

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Warren » Feb 01 2018 9:51am

tigcross,

"I keep my top speed to about 45 kph...I am always pedaling. That seems to keep the cops around here happy"

Indeed. That is the secret. Going on 8 years now...two on the huge cargo bike. Stay at 30 mph and below, and always pedal, and you will be invisible. I have actually stopped, and struck up conversations with cops. They really don't care. They only get upset when you ride like an ass, and people complain. Then it becomes their problem, and they don't need/want the extra work. Now this is only my experience in central Virginia. I think I have only seen one other e-bike here ever. Densely populated, sprawl areas would surely be different.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by 2old » Feb 01 2018 11:12am

Warren, I live in densely-populated Orange County, CA and have the same experience; keep pedaling. Of course, it's possible there are areas where the gendarmes react differently.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 01 2018 12:55pm

Oops, sorry everybody. I was looking at a different page of this thread where JRH had been the last poster.
No worries Dan, hopefully you get to hook up with JRH and test ride the Sur-Ron.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 01 2018 12:56pm

SlowCo wrote:
Jan 31 2018 6:39pm
Skaiwerd wrote:
Jan 31 2018 6:28pm
Is it me, does that crank look like it’s too far back? Guess that thing is smallish and yer arse is more in the back of the seat, not in that curved part. Maybe that it’s right on the rear tire. Prob less noticeable with the bike tires. Just looks funny to me.
It looks funny and too far back because it is funny and too far back. It is only to make the bike a "legal e-bike" in some parts of the world.

ebike.jpg
Looks legit to me! :!:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Hyena » Feb 01 2018 6:56pm

Here's my latest testing on the light bee (ya happy Adam ? :P )
This one is squeezing the absolute max range out of the bike, in economy mode.
Still heaps of fun even with the power limited and great for lengthy exploring expeditions like this one.
This is more of a vlog style video with alot of discussion along the way. I had a few people say they like the vlog style stuff so if you want to see more if these sort of videos let me know.

Some of the comments from this thread are mentioned in the video :wink:

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New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Aebrennan » Feb 01 2018 11:14pm

8)
Happy Light Bee owner right here 👍

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by LeftieBiker » Feb 01 2018 11:18pm

Thanks for posting the pedal drive info. I had been hoping it might work for me, for two reasons: to get a little optional exercise when riding, and because I also find that always pedaling makes one invisible to law enforcement. I'd say that if I order one now, though, it will be with just pegs. Someone should develop a freewheeling pedal kit that does absolutely nothing but make the LB look like a bicycle.

Next question: how hard is it to load this bike into a small hatchback, alone?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Antenor » Feb 02 2018 5:28am

I like the vlog style Hyena :)

That autonomy is very good ... I look forward to someone in Europe who starts to market this bike.
So if it's street legal, it will be a real alternative to gasoline bikes

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Feb 02 2018 12:36pm

Hyena wrote:
Jan 31 2018 6:43pm
dirkdiggler wrote:
Jan 31 2018 5:55pm
Finally saw the Luna Cycle pedal kit. Looks better than what was out there before.
That IS what was out there before. That's not a Luna kit, it's straight from the factory - you can see it in this conversion tutorial. It looks like they've just slackened off the chain and added in the pedal chainring but kept the rear sprocket. This will at least stop you losing the bottom end with a tiny rear sprocket, but as you said makes pedaling it even less of a actual practicality.

surron-pedal.jpg


it looks like that with the sur ron pedal kit installed it will restrict the rear suspension travel because when the suspension compresses it will pull the chain up against the crank chain ring that is mounted in a fixed position to the bike main frame (not moving with the swingarm) and is no longer concentric to the rear swingarm pivot, thereby in effect transforming the bike into a hard tail.. :roll:
or if you take a big hit / jump it could break the chain or damage the (cheap looking) pedal kit..

also, i assume that its a freewheeling crank? or do you have to pedal at motor speed or motor at pedal speed..

Edit : just watched the pedal kit installation video again and the pedal kit is attached to the swingarm not the peg mount as I had thought.. therefore the suspension will not be affected with chain tensioning.. instead you will be standing on the swingarm so rider weight on the swingarm will influence the rear suspension action and feel, especially when standing such as over rough terrain.. not much better, but at least the suspension can move.. :oops:
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Alex Imreh » Feb 02 2018 3:04pm

Hyena wrote:
Feb 01 2018 6:56pm
Here's my latest testing on the light bee (ya happy Adam ? :P )
This one is squeezing the absolute max range out of the bike, in economy mode.
Still heaps of fun even with the power limited and great for lengthy exploring expeditions like this one.
This is more of a vlog style video with alot of discussion along the way. I had a few people say they like the vlog style stuff so if you want to see more if these sort of videos let me know.

Some of the comments from this thread are mentioned in the video :wink:

If you could give Strava.com recording of this range test, or similar range test than anybody could analyse, just by getting a fast link, a lot of information like total moving time, average speed, certain speeds on certain uphills, total range at total uphill elevation, max speed and so on. I tried to to this for Bultaco Brinco, see here a few uphill & range tests recorded on Strava for Brinco - https://ibikes.wordpress.com/2015/06/09/bultaco-brinco/

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by johnrobholmes » Feb 02 2018 4:00pm

Got the email, thanks! I'll get back to you asap, we should definitely meet up and you can take this thing for a test ride. I suppose I could let the PMs go back on here. Used to be nuts trying to keep up with them, but since I"m not actively selling stuff for ebikes any longer it probably wouldn't be an issue any longer.
DanGT86 wrote:
Feb 01 2018 8:25am
JRH,

Your PMs are disabled so I tried to contact you through the HH website. I'll be visiting the offroad park and motocross track near columbia in the next month or two. I was hoping I could talk you into meeting us out there with the Sur-Ron. I'd love to try it out and I think you'd have a blast riding it on the MX track. I also wanted to let you know about a few ebike races on kart tracks around St. Louis and Illinois. Send me a PM if you are interested.

Oops, sorry everybody. I was looking at a different page of this thread where JRH had been the last poster. Guess this is really out of context here.

Either way, everybody should come race in st louis MO memorial day weekend! Or meet me at the offroad park! :D

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by skeetab5780 » Feb 02 2018 5:17pm

Hyena wrote:
Feb 01 2018 6:56pm
Here's my latest testing on the light bee
Nice vid Hyena the bike is looking sick too, i like the bars. Good range from that pack for the price cannot go wrong

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Rix » Feb 03 2018 1:20am

Antenor wrote:
Feb 02 2018 5:28am
I like the vlog style Hyena :)

That autonomy is very good ... I look forward to someone in Europe who starts to market this bike.
So if it's street legal, it will be a real alternative to gasoline bikes
+1 Vlog was very informational.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike from China

Post by Johne-bike » Feb 03 2018 8:56am

Hi All!
I've been following this exciting thread from the very beginning, and what a helluva fun and informative "ride" it has been so far! So my thanks goes out to all the contributors, and especially those members who have been the early adopters, and passed down such a wealth of fantastic information.. :)
I am a retired Brit, fortunate enough now to live in the very rural NE of Thailand, surrounded by hundreds of kilometres of good, mainly flat gravel trails that meander through the farmland of rice paddies and sugar cane plantations. As of now, I enjoy exploring these on my Mxus 3000w Fatbike.. A very useful tool for my daily adventures :P
But the temptation of reading this thread has been too much.. I am now waiting for a reply from Sur-Ron providing me with the price for a Light Bee with Rst forks, and 60v battery pack in the fetching shade of green.. :lol:
I think the Light Bee will be a perfect bike for blasting my local trails, and exploring the rural landscape near home. Luckily we don't have any sort of policing or regulations to worry about in these parts, and for that blessing I shall be eternally grateful.. :lol:
So, hopefully before too much longer I will be able to make my own contribution regarding living with the Light Bee on this very thread!
Keep up the good work, Guy's.. I'm relying on you for my daily Sur - Ron fix until my own one arrives.. :lol:
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On the trails through the rice paddies in Thailand

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