Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
artisanstone   10 W

10 W
Posts: 70
Joined: Mar 19 2018 1:54pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by artisanstone » Sep 11 2019 5:51pm

Probably out of range for sure. I saw one parked on my road. Very rural.

User avatar
Hyena   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5628
Joined: Aug 13 2008 9:10am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hyena » Sep 11 2019 6:59pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Sep 08 2019 10:20pm
To all those out there that swear the Sur Ron can't compute with "real" dirt bikes! This guy took first place in an open class race!
Cool. Though to be fair it doesn't look like the other riders were trying too hard - most he overtook were just putting around.
Bummer about the key-off delayed start - getting the holeshot is where ebikes usually shine. Not eating dust and being able to see would have been a bonus too! I'd wire the key to the throttle for future races. The controller could then remain on but the bike would be "off" as far as any testing or throttle input was concerned, but you could turn the key and be off and racing a split second later.
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
My build and HD video thread____. My youtube channel____ Hyena Facebook page
My bike is writing cheques my body can't cash...

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6653
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Sep 11 2019 9:35pm

Hyena wrote:
Sep 11 2019 6:59pm
3DTOPO wrote:
Sep 08 2019 10:20pm
To all those out there that swear the Sur Ron can't compute with "real" dirt bikes! This guy took first place in an open class race!
Cool. Though to be fair it doesn't look like the other riders were trying too hard - most he overtook were just putting around.
Bummer about the key-off delayed start - getting the holeshot is where ebikes usually shine. Not eating dust and being able to see would have been a bonus too! I'd wire the key to the throttle for future races. The controller could then remain on but the bike would be "off" as far as any testing or throttle input was concerned, but you could turn the key and be off and racing a split second later.
I wasn't going to say anything Jay, but since you brought it up, at best the guys the SurRon pilot was racing against in the open class were C riders. There is no way the SurRon is beating a B or A riders on a 450. The exception would be if the SurRon rider was an A rider, and the course was down hill, and super tight.

Grantmac   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 546
Joined: Oct 22 2018 12:43pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Grantmac » Sep 11 2019 11:05pm

Definitely a fairly fast rider on a slow bike against slow riders on bikes they couldn't use (looks like MX guys playing at scrambles).

Similar thing happens here with guys entering hare scrambles on trials bikes. It's hard on their bodies but they do well on the short courses.

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Sep 12 2019 1:37am

Rix wrote:
Sep 11 2019 9:35pm
I wasn't going to say anything Jay, but since you brought it up, at best the guys the SurRon pilot was racing against in the open class were C riders. There is no way the SurRon is beating a B or A riders on a 450. The exception would be if the SurRon rider was an A rider, and the course was down hill, and super tight.
I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that dude on a stock Sur Ron could beat A or B riders on 450s.

But it certainly was able to hang with what I assume were mostly 250s?
Last edited by 3DTOPO on Sep 12 2019 4:30am, edited 1 time in total.

Tommm   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 589
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » Sep 12 2019 3:01am

He would wreck them with the asi 4000 or 8000 and upgraded battery.

User avatar
Merlin   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1817
Joined: Jan 29 2013 10:00am
Location: europe

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Sep 12 2019 6:02am

all you wreck with an asi8k is your motor on a race :lol:

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6653
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Sep 12 2019 11:50am

3DTOPO wrote:
Sep 12 2019 1:37am
Rix wrote:
Sep 11 2019 9:35pm
I wasn't going to say anything Jay, but since you brought it up, at best the guys the SurRon pilot was racing against in the open class were C riders. There is no way the SurRon is beating a B or A riders on a 450. The exception would be if the SurRon rider was an A rider, and the course was down hill, and super tight.
I certainly wasn't trying to suggest that dude on a stock Sur Ron could beat A or B riders on 450s.

But it certainly was able to hang with what I assume were mostly 250s?
They said "open class" I was assuming that meant bikes with more CCs than 250, thats the way it was back in the 80s and 90s when I was racing.

User avatar
efMX Trials Electric Freeride   100 kW

100 kW
Posts: 1441
Joined: Feb 15 2013 4:43pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Sep 12 2019 12:06pm

it was sportsman class, run what you brung.. still cool to see though, can't wait for some modified surrons to race the gassers next..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

User avatar
Rix   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 6653
Joined: Mar 29 2012 11:26am
Location: Fallon NV USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Rix » Sep 12 2019 2:35pm

efMX Trials Electric Freeride wrote:
Sep 12 2019 12:06pm
it was sportsman class, run what you brung.. still cool to see though, can't wait for some modified surrons to race the gassers next..
It was cool to see the SurRon mix it up with the gassers. The next gen SurRon will be way better for this purpose.

smdub   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 15 2019 5:51pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Sep 15 2019 6:04pm

New Sur-ron X owner here. I bought a barely used one locally on Friday. Seller took delivery Jan 2019 and it has the X controller. It's a hoot so far and is a perfect thing to ride around the woods with my son on his OSET 20R.

My question is about the throttle response. It is very non-linear. The first half of the twist yeilds only about 1/4 total torque. A couple of my moto and trials friends got together today for a trials training session and I brought the X. We all universally agreed that while it is very smooth it is not even remotely linear like a gas bike. Trying to hop logs trials style, nose-wheelies, etc. took a whole lot of retraining the brain. Is there a way to change the response? Since it's a cable driven pot, I suspect I could swap in a different one if the original is log-taper or something. Or am I going to have to CNC machine a cam to linearize this thing? One friend has an Electric Motion trials bike that we rode back to back. It and the X seem to have similar power but the EM is mapped MUCH better.

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14173
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Sep 15 2019 9:42pm

Try tightening up the throttle cable to minimize the free travel. This also changes the response. On mine, I had to tighten it up quite a bit before it started behaving properly. You could change the "pot" or mess with the magnets on the hall sensor to get a different response.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

smdub   1 µW

1 µW
Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 15 2019 5:51pm
Location: Maryland

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Sep 16 2019 8:06am

The slack in this one is decent. Don't know if it was adjusted well at the factory or the PO fiddled with it. Is the "pot" actually hall based? Since I've owned it for a whopping 3 days I haven't had time to track down the throttle sensor. I'll dig into it today to see what my options are.

User avatar
fechter   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 14173
Joined: Dec 31 2006 3:23pm
Location: California Bay Area, USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Sep 16 2019 10:57am

Yes, the inside the pot box is a hall effect sensor. It's kind of buried behind the controller in front of the motor.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

thoroughbred   10 W

10 W
Posts: 74
Joined: Apr 11 2018 6:18pm
Location: virginia

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Sep 17 2019 6:32am

Can a generic 12 volt switch handle 60 volts? I'm thinking the switch can handle a certain amount of watts or heat so maybe high voltage with tiny amperage would be ok?

I would like to add a handlebar switch to a couple of my electric motos including the sur ron. KTM handlebar map switch for example used to speed limit the sur ron via the clipped wire on the controller harness. Not sure what the voltage on that wire is but worst case scenario.

Also would like to be able to toggle the headlight on and off but I'm pretty sure that comes from the 12 volt converter.

User avatar
sn0wchyld   1 MW

1 MW
Posts: 1633
Joined: Mar 18 2011 8:27pm
Location: South Aus.

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sn0wchyld » Sep 17 2019 7:33am

thoroughbred wrote:
Sep 17 2019 6:32am
Can a generic 12 volt switch handle 60 volts? I'm thinking the switch can handle a certain amount of watts or heat so maybe high voltage with tiny amperage would be ok?

I would like to add a handlebar switch to a couple of my electric motos including the sur ron. KTM handlebar map switch for example used to speed limit the sur ron via the clipped wire on the controller harness. Not sure what the voltage on that wire is but worst case scenario.

Also would like to be able to toggle the headlight on and off but I'm pretty sure that comes from the 12 volt converter.
The voltage rating of switches really only comes into play when you want to make or break loads - ie turning off a light, or turning off your bike while its under power / accelerating etc. if you switch it on/off with no load then a 12v switch will be ok at its rated amps at 50, 70, 100v etc (within reason, higher voltages might not damage the switch but may become a hazard to anyone touching it for example). my stealth running 72V for example uses one of those big 12v battery isolators for cars - if i tried ot switch off the bike while under full throttle it'd probably arc and destroy the switch, and possibly cause some other damage, but turning it on/off without any load its just fine - and rated at 500A so no issues current wise.

as far as switching the chopped wire for low/high power - pretty much any old switch should be fine. its a signal wire, so chances are its only 5v, maybe 12, and low current so no issues there. lights- just make sure its switched off at the input to any LED drivers - such drivers are probably intergrated into the LED housing, but on the off chance they arn't you could blow the LED switching the output of the driver on/off vs the input of the driver on/off. if there is a external driver it'll likely be between the 12v DC/DC converters output and the LED. Just make sure the battery is disconnected before you go cutting anything :D

User avatar
Offroader   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2466
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Sep 17 2019 11:36pm

I bought another deity handlebar. The Sur-Ron handlebar sweep angle was not good and always felt bad. It held my wrists in a bad angle. Could never get used to it. The Sur-Ron bar is more straight while the Deity bends more towards you. You won't know the Sur-Ron bar sucks unless you use a proper bar.
The Diety has a 9 degree bend / backsweep by 5 degree upsweep, these are the specs you probably want.


Since I have an uncut steerer tube, I bought the same rise handlebar as the stock Sur-Ron, which is 25mm rise, Deity blacklabel handlebar. Couldn't be happier, that slight bend really makes a huge difference in the feel. If you are using the Sur-Ron Killah fork with the cut steerer tube then you want a 3" rise handlebar with the same 9 degree bend / backsweep by 5 degree upsweep.

Not the same topic but my Sur-Ron is extremely reliable. It just doesn't break or have bolts coming loose. Even the spokes stopped coming loose after tightening them a few times. I rarely do bolt torque checks and spoke loosening checks on the bike now. I also beat this bike up pretty badly offroad and hit the stairs often. I had my doubts at first about 12 gauge spokes but they hold up with no issues.


Image

Image

thoroughbred   10 W

10 W
Posts: 74
Joined: Apr 11 2018 6:18pm
Location: virginia

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Sep 18 2019 7:58pm

very nice handlebars and jewelry!

The street legal version has a big speedo with adjustable "transmission ratio" settings, presumably to calibrate the speedo for different gearing, tire size etc.

Mine came set at ratio 1:1. i assume that since everything else is stock, this is the right ratio for calibrating the speed display? (obviously, the actual reduction ratios of the belt and chain sets are not 1:1)

freeflow   1 mW

1 mW
Posts: 18
Joined: Dec 24 2018 5:40pm

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by freeflow » Sep 18 2019 11:03pm

I have the street legal one but the speed gauge it is not that correct, can not remember exactly by how much when comparing with a GPS but I was not impressed so to say.

User avatar
Offroader   10 MW

10 MW
Posts: 2466
Joined: Sep 08 2013 9:03pm
Location: USA

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Sep 19 2019 2:48pm

I upgraded the brakes on my Sur-Ron to Saint brakes.

What surprised me was I drove a short distance and locked up the rear brakes a couple of times to swing the rear around. When I parked the bike I noticed a smell from the rear of the bike. I then noticed the rotor and the caliper were burning hot. You could feel the heat flowing off of it.

I drove such a short distance and do not believe the brakes were rubbing, this was all from just locking up the rear brakes a few times in a short amount of time.

Do these brakes really heat up so quickly with just a few lock ups? I assume it made it much worse using only the rear brakes to stop the bike.

Can you damage the brake caliper if you overheat it too much?

Tommm   10 kW

10 kW
Posts: 589
Joined: Apr 03 2018 2:32am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tommm » Sep 19 2019 4:54pm

Motors that don't freewheel are more difficult to tell if they are rubbing because you can't quite hear it as easily. From my experience, bike brakes heat up fast but also cool off fast. So doing a big fast stop, if you give it half minute it will be cold again.

User avatar
Hyena   100 GW

100 GW
Posts: 5628
Joined: Aug 13 2008 9:10am
Location: Sydney, Australia
Contact:

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hyena » Sep 19 2019 6:47pm

If you've barely used the brakes and then lock them up there should be almost no heat.
Obviously what creates heat is rubbing/friction between the pads and the rotor and if the pads are clamped hard onto the rotor in the case of a lock up there's no friction there as it's transferred to the tyre skidding. It's riding the brakes that makes them hot, and then if there's alot of heat in the rotor and THEN you lock it up, then yeah I guess extra heat is transferred back into the pads/caliper. But predominantly it'll be from the pad heat itself.
Easy way to see if your brakes are dragging over the racket of a chain drive is to got for a quick few laps around the block and only use the front brakes to stop. Then feel your back pads and rotor and they should be cold. If they're warm then they're rubbing.

The saints have finned pads don't they ? They should cool down pretty quickly and minimise heat transfer to the caliper.
www.HyenaElectricBikes.com
Aussie high powered e-bike kits and custom performance ebikes
New FUTR and Hyena special edition Beta frames now available!
My build and HD video thread____. My youtube channel____ Hyena Facebook page
My bike is writing cheques my body can't cash...

wuhaichao443   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 27
Joined: Apr 22 2019 5:05am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by wuhaichao443 » Sep 19 2019 9:34pm

:bigthumb:
Attachments
微信图片_20190920052235.jpg
微信图片_20190920052235.jpg (291.12 KiB) Viewed 377 times

User avatar
3DTOPO   1 kW

1 kW
Posts: 327
Joined: Apr 11 2018 2:21am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Sep 20 2019 12:53am

wuhaichao443 wrote:
Sep 19 2019 9:34pm
:bigthumb:
Man that thing looks PERFECT! :bolt:

wuhaichao443   10 mW

10 mW
Posts: 27
Joined: Apr 22 2019 5:05am

Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by wuhaichao443 » Sep 20 2019 1:52am

http://bbs.sur-ron.com/#/t/158 Your bearings need to be changed

Post Reply