Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Oct 19 2019 11:52am

erick.go wrote:
Oct 19 2019 9:50am
IggyPi wrote:
Oct 17 2019 9:56am
Can someone tell me plz what this connector is good for, maybe how the wiring works there and if I need this connection to go to my sabvoton 72200 controller. That would help a lot, the sur-ron wiring diagram is not the best.
Cheers guys
hi did you find a answer ?

best regards
There is a 12v signal that powers the backlight on the battery display, and there is a signal going to the controller that bumps it into EP mode if the battery temp gets too high or if the voltage gets too low. The bike runs fine with this connector disconnected but would not go into EP mode if the battery commanded it.

Beyond that we have little knowledge about the exact wiring details.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jasonjm » Oct 19 2019 3:27pm

any sur ron owners in southern california area? if so, which are the good areas to ride these bikes? I mostly like technical singletrack, but flowy singletrack is ok too. not into steep hill climbs or sandy flats.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Oct 21 2019 8:34pm

Jasonjm wrote:
Oct 17 2019 7:36pm
i think you making a mistake. the sur ron is almost too light for some obstacles, it has barely enough weight to plough throw stuff, it gets defelcted way more easily than a full moto bike.

once you make it weigh less, especally in the wheels, it is going to deflect off everything, plough through nothing. I would smash a carbon rim and mountain bike wheel in about 5 minutes on the trails im riding on my surron. nevermind the mountain bike tires would have no grip compared to moto knobs.

unless you just running mellow fire road type trails with no rocks at all, then you will be good with a super light bike build.
Everyone has different conditions and ideals. I don't ride though rock gardens - mostly fire roads (that can get quite rough) with a bit of single-trek.

I wasn't suggesting that I wanted carbon rims either - too much $ for too little weight saved (even my full carbon Yeti has aluminum rims which practically weigh as much as carbon would - we're talking grams). It seems like there are a lot of people out there that have switched to bike wheels on their Sur Ron and are quite happy with them.

If I switched the rear wheel out for a bike wheel, I would go with a knobby 3.5" fat tire - which are quite grippy. Something like a Maxxis Minion FBR. I may prefer the moto front wheel for the rear, but no way to know without trying them both.

That all said, I weigh about 150 pounds and the Sur Ron 110. Thats a combined total of 260 pounds. I kind of doubt that knocking off 20 pounds (8%) would change it's plough-ability all that much.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Oct 21 2019 9:58pm

fechter wrote:
Oct 19 2019 11:52am

There is a 12v signal that powers the backlight on the battery display, and there is a signal going to the controller that bumps it into EP mode if the battery temp gets too high or if the voltage gets too low. The bike runs fine with this connector disconnected but would not go into EP mode if the battery commanded it.

Beyond that we have little knowledge about the exact wiring details.
OK, someone reports that if the connector is disconnected, it defaults to EP mode and you can only get Sport mode if the signal is present.
I'll have to test to verify this, but it makes sense that it would be this way. I only noticed the motor would run, but didn't take it out on the road so probably didn't realize it was in EP mode.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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3DTOPO   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Oct 21 2019 11:04pm

Sur Ron takes 2nd place in a Hare Scramble. Looks like he would have taken 1st with a bit more juice.


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jasonjm » Oct 22 2019 8:27am

Lol that horn on the sur Ron has gotta be changed. Would be awesome if it made a destroyer horn sound not that terrible meep it has

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Oct 22 2019 2:21pm

3DTOPO wrote:
Oct 21 2019 11:04pm
Sur Ron takes 2nd place in a Hare Scramble. Looks like he would have taken 1st with a bit more juice.
Great riding skill! I'm getting too old for that kind of speed.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Oct 23 2019 1:09am

In a hare scrambles you do laps. A 30 second battery swap 1/2 way would help your overall time a lot. I would do stuff like
this guy but it's kind of lame with 5 hp going that slow.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Oct 23 2019 1:20am

motomoto wrote:
Oct 23 2019 1:09am
In a hare scrambles you do laps. A 30 second battery swap 1/2 way would help your overall time a lot.
Yeah, good call on a battery swap.
motomoto wrote:
Oct 23 2019 1:09am
I would do stuff like this guy but it's kind of lame with 5 hp going that slow.
I think one of the reasons why he placed second is because with such tight trails having more than 5 hp doesn't gain you much - except in the occasional places where it opened up for a bit.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by KeithT » Oct 24 2019 6:22am

surron-what.jpg
surron-what.jpg (159.96 KiB) Viewed 1132 times
This came in the accessory kit with my new Sur Ron X Bike Black Edition that I got yesterday. Obviously it goes to the mystery battery connector and if something happens the LED will light up. What is it??? Haven't tried it yet.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Oct 24 2019 9:49am

KeithT wrote:
Oct 24 2019 6:22am

This came in the accessory kit with my new Sur Ron X Bike Black Edition that I got yesterday. Obviously it goes to the mystery battery connector and if something happens the LED will light up. What is it??? Haven't tried it yet.
I didn't get one of those, but from what I can tell the LED will blink error codes if the controller faults. It's a troubleshooting tool. Apparently only for the X version controllers. Not much use if you don't know what the codes mean.

Here is a chart of the codes.
Diagnostic_chart_X_Series_lead_LED.pdf
(17.51 KiB) Downloaded 66 times
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by KeithT » Oct 24 2019 10:42am

Wow thanks fechter! 35 flashes? Don't know if I can count that high. Zero uses groups like two then three. Anyway good to know.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Mithion » Oct 26 2019 2:10pm

How is this not a sticky thread lol?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by IggyPi » Oct 29 2019 11:43am

fechter wrote:
Oct 19 2019 11:52am
erick.go wrote:
Oct 19 2019 9:50am
IggyPi wrote:
Oct 17 2019 9:56am
Can someone tell me plz what this connector is good for, maybe how the wiring works there and if I need this connection to go to my sabvoton 72200 controller. That would help a lot, the sur-ron wiring diagram is not the best.
Cheers guys
hi did you find a answer ?

best regards
There is a 12v signal that powers the backlight on the battery display, and there is a signal going to the controller that bumps it into EP mode if the battery temp gets too high or if the voltage gets too low. The bike runs fine with this connector disconnected but would not go into EP mode if the battery commanded it.

Beyond that we have little knowledge about the exact wiring details.
Thx mate, sorry for the late reply, had much going on.
I changed to controller and made a brand new wiring for my sur-ron for the controller to fit and asked becuase I wanna figure out if the plug is on any use for the new setup
erick.go wrote:
Oct 19 2019 9:50am
IggyPi wrote:
Oct 17 2019 9:56am
Can someone tell me plz what this connector is good for, maybe how the wiring works there and if I need this connection to go to my sabvoton 72200 controller. That would help a lot, the sur-ron wiring diagram is not the best.

Image

Cheers guys
hi did you find a answer ?

best regards
not really, the wireing diagrame sur-ron provides is not very detailed

Jasonjm   10 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jasonjm » Oct 29 2019 3:47pm

is anyone making 72v better battery packs for the sur ron yet? but quality tested ones not home brew? I need more power on hill climbs


and not electric RT I will never order from them again, dishonest vendor.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Jasonjm » Oct 29 2019 3:52pm


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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Oct 29 2019 5:43pm

some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Oct 29 2019 7:35pm

fechter wrote:
Oct 19 2019 11:52am
erick.go wrote:
Oct 19 2019 9:50am
IggyPi wrote:
Oct 17 2019 9:56am
Can someone tell me plz what this connector is good for, maybe how the wiring works there and if I need this connection to go to my sabvoton 72200 controller. That would help a lot, the sur-ron wiring diagram is not the best.
Cheers guys
hi did you find a answer ?

best regards
There is a 12v signal that powers the backlight on the battery display, and there is a signal going to the controller that bumps it into EP mode if the battery temp gets too high or if the voltage gets too low. The bike runs fine with this connector disconnected but would not go into EP mode if the battery commanded it.

Beyond that we have little knowledge about the exact wiring details.
Can you revisit this post to look at the pictures of the battery internals?

viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89902&start=425#p1358016

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Oct 30 2019 8:15am

I've seen the insides of a pack first hand, but without putting a meter on stuff while it's in use it's hard to tell what all the wires are doing. For sure one of the lines is 12v that comes on with the key, and there is a line that enables sport mode if the pack voltage and temperature are within the allowable range. Beyond that it will take some poking around to figure out the rest.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by dirkdiggler » Nov 05 2019 1:00pm

Saw this over on Electrek. Looks like Segway is selling a rebranded version of the light bee. https://electrek.co/2019/11/05/segway-u ... qus_threadImage
Segway-Ninebot has just announced the newest electric vehicles in its product portfolio during an unveiling at the 2019 SEMA show. But these aren’t the company’s typical electric scooters. Instead, Segway-Ninebot rolled out two electric dirt bikes.

Despite the company’s success selling low-cost electric scooters, Segway-Ninebot has set its sights on expanding into electric power sports.

As Segway-Ninebot’s marketing director Julie Tang explained to Electrek:

We are trying to continue developing cool products, futuristic products, in order to expand our portfolio to appeal to outdoor adventurers in addition to city dwellers. We want to keep expanding our existing customer base and give them more options.

And the first step has been to roll out two new electric dirt bikes.


Segway-Ninebot’s new electric dirt bikes
Segway-Ninebot’s electric dirt bikes come in two models, the X160 and X260.

The X160 features a 3 kW peak motor that helps the bike top out at 50 km/h (31 mph). It has a range of 65 km (40 mi) from its 48 V and 1 kWh battery.

The larger X260 has a stronger 5 kW peak motor and a higher top speed of 75 km/h (46.6 mph). Its larger 60 V and 1.8 kWh battery offers a higher range of 120 km (74.6 mi).

segway electric dirt bike X160 X260
Both bikes use belt-driven primary reductions and chain-driven secondary reductions. Both also offer suspension comprised of a multi-link rear hydraulic shock and a front inverted suspension fork. The X260 has larger 19-inch wheels compared to the 17-inch wheels on the X160. The X260 also gets a double crown fork, compared to the single crown fork found on the X160.

Just don’t call them Sur Rons…
If you’re getting déjà vu or you think these electric dirt bikes look familiar, you might not be mistaken. They look a lot like the Sur Ron electric bike.

When I asked Julie about this, I ended up learning something new:

Sur Ron is actually in our ecosystem. We’re the largest shareholder of Sur Ron.

sur_ron_segway_10sur_ron_segway_9sur_ron_segway_5
sur_ron_segway_3segway electric dirt bike X160 X260
So it’s not so much that these are Sur Rons, but rather that Sur Rons are Segways.

Though in actuality it’s a bit more complicated than that. While the X160 and X260 are based on the Sur Ron platform, Segway did more than slap a few stickers on them. Julie explained that the company re-engineered the design in critical places to make the bikes more robust and improve earlier issues with the original design.

And while the original Sur Rons are a bit more obscure, limited largely to the high-power electric bike crowd, Segway hopes that its X160 and X260 will appeal to a wider dirt bike audience. And while Sur Rons are generally purchased online, Segway-Ninebot does a lot of retail sales as well, which could help put this platform in front of a wider audience.

How can you get a Segway electric dirt bike?
Segway-Ninebot will be marketing the X160 and X260 mostly in the US. The company will begin taking pre-orders for the electric dirt bikes later this month on Indiegogo. That platform has become a common launching pad for electric two-wheelers from startups and established companies alike.

The X160 and X260 have MSRPs of $2,999 and $4,999 respectively but will be offered with discounts during the pre-order period. Production and deliveries are expected to begin in Q1 of 2020.
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by dirkdiggler » Nov 05 2019 1:03pm

Also, replaced the headset on my Sur-ron with the Cane Creek version. Much better. Hope it will last a few years. I replaced the headset myself, so who knows about that! Nice to be out riding again.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by JuiceMeUp » Nov 05 2019 1:50pm

By Segway claiming that this sur-ron is a different brand all together, can you get around an exclusive dealership agreement ?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Nov 05 2019 4:23pm

Finally decided to order a shinko 241 18x3.00.

Like I've said, the 18x3.00 is way better than the 19x2.75" version of the shinko 241 that many I see are using here. The reason is the 3.00 is made for the rear and the 2.75 for the front. I have been through this with my other bike, the 3.00 version of the tire is worlds better than then 2.75".

The 3.00 has much longer knobs, has a much softer tread compound, easily much better traction for our light weight bikes.

The thing I always wondered about the 18x3.00 is the size, will the 18x3.00 shinko 241 be too small compared to the stock 19" tire and therefore throw off the geometry?

Well here is a shinko 241 3.00 next to a brand new Sur Ron stock 19" tire.

The stock Sur Ron 19" is ever so slightly larger than the shinko 241 18" 3.00. It is really damn close in size.

I'm thinking this may be the perfect tire for the rear of a Sur-Ron, longer lasting on paverment, soft compound, good grip, thick and long knobs. This tire in a 17x3.00 size on my other bike has been the best tire by far, great traction, good riding feel, long lasting, but not too long as the compound is soft.

What do you guys think, will you even notice the size difference when riding on this tire?

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by 3DTOPO » Nov 05 2019 5:59pm

dirkdiggler wrote:
Nov 05 2019 1:00pm
Sur Ron is actually in our ecosystem. We’re the largest shareholder of Sur Ron.
Unless they have a controlling share (> 50%) they are just a shareholder - doesn't make Sur Ron their company anymore than owing two shares of TSLA puts Tesla in "my ecosystem".

All they could do is threaten to sell their shares, and Sur Ron would probably be like fine see if we care.

dirkdiggler wrote:
Nov 05 2019 1:00pm
While the X160 and X260 are based on the Sur Ron platform, Segway did more than slap a few stickers on them. Julie explained that the company re-engineered the design in critical places to make the bikes more robust and improve earlier issues with the original design.
Without mentioning any specifics, it just sounds like marketing smoke and mirrors to me.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by aspencreek » Nov 05 2019 6:07pm

dirkdiggler wrote:
Nov 05 2019 1:00pm
Saw this over on Electrek. Looks like Segway is selling a rebranded version of the light bee. https://electrek.co/2019/11/05/segway-u ... qus_threadImage
Interesting find dirk. Will be curious to see what the final prices / specs are on Segway versions of the Sur Ron. They list the x260 version with a 74 mile range! That'd be double what I'm averaging on my Sur Ron. If that's accurate I'll be buying at least a battery from Segway if not a whole bike.

Wouldn't be the first time a manufacturer gives exclusivity for a while then launches a slightly different version to get around that agreement. Happened to my company in the robotic pool cleaner market. We had exclusive rights to a new cleaner that we spec'd out and partially designed. It did really well so the next year the manufacturer came out with the same cleaner but with different color, and something like 2 extra features, and let anyone and everyone sell that version. Killed off that product for us. But I digress....

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