Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

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efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Aug 03 2020 12:07am

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soon they'll be EVerywhere:) :bolt:
8)
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joltbike.com
some ride & sk8 videos:
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i have nothing for sale.. :)

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 03 2020 9:35pm

Finally built a case for my LED lights DC/DC converter. Milled from a piece of acrylic plastic. I installed it next to the sur-ron dc/dc converter because I removed the twist throttle device for a thumb throttle.

This wasn't an easy job and took me an embarrassingly long time to make. I wanted it to be very robust and waterproof. I added an on/off switch, but it will still turn on and off with the key switch if the DC/DC converter switch is left ON. If I'm not using my lights then I don't want to leave it on as it uses 4-5 watts on standby.

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I made my own connectors to connect to the stock connectors, so I wouldn't have to splice anything for the battery voltage.
This crimping tool worked great and made very good crimps.
http://toolaid.com/product/18910

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thoroughbred   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Aug 06 2020 7:52am

looks good offroader, its amazing how much time it takes to figure out how to retrofit stuff.

With your controller, does it do auto detect for all the motor settings? Does it list what settings it detected? I ask because my controller asks for the user to input the settings and i don't know what values to use for things like motor kv etc
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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 07 2020 12:12am

thoroughbred wrote:
Aug 06 2020 7:52am
looks good offroader, its amazing how much time it takes to figure out how to retrofit stuff.

With your controller, does it do auto detect for all the motor settings? Does it list what settings it detected? I ask because my controller asks for the user to input the settings and i don't know what values to use for things like motor kv
The nuclear controller auto detects most of those things, it spins the motor and sets it up really well. I would have to look to see if it lists it, it probably does list everything.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 07 2020 12:14am

Was out last night testing out my lights. Unfortunately it seems my power supply has issues as I can't draw more than 7 amps before it has a huge quick drop in voltage and eventually turns my lights off. I have to limit the lights power.


Ohbse   10 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Ohbse » Aug 07 2020 11:54pm

Offroader wrote:
Aug 01 2020 4:12pm
Highest I could get the motor was 72C-74C. It mostly stayed around 65C-70C. This is with 88F outside air. This is also using 90 amps x battery voltage with a Nuclear 24 fet controller.

I checked the case temp with an infared thermometer, when the temp was 65C inside the motor measured by the temp probe, the case temp measured 57C.

Temperatures also do not spike quickly, even at full throttle and hill climbing.

Does anyone think these numbers are kind of too low? Even the motor case temp outside was 57C and only 8C cooler than inside at the windings?
Sounds about right. It's winter here - so cooler ambient, around 15c - I struggle to get to get motor temps over 70c over 16km journey, 10-15 hard 500a launches - 60 km/h cruise, 85km/h peaks - 16.2kw power peak. Holds up remarkably well to big power.

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sn0wchyld » Aug 08 2020 5:23am

Ohbse wrote:
Aug 07 2020 11:54pm
Offroader wrote:
Aug 01 2020 4:12pm
Highest I could get the motor was 72C-74C. It mostly stayed around 65C-70C. This is with 88F outside air. This is also using 90 amps x battery voltage with a Nuclear 24 fet controller.

I checked the case temp with an infared thermometer, when the temp was 65C inside the motor measured by the temp probe, the case temp measured 57C.

Temperatures also do not spike quickly, even at full throttle and hill climbing.

Does anyone think these numbers are kind of too low? Even the motor case temp outside was 57C and only 8C cooler than inside at the windings?
Sounds about right. It's winter here - so cooler ambient, around 15c - I struggle to get to get motor temps over 70c over 16km journey, 10-15 hard 500a launches - 60 km/h cruise, 85km/h peaks - 16.2kw power peak. Holds up remarkably well to big power.
im on the older firmware too... will be updating soon.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 09 2020 3:45pm

Any idea anyone?

The battery voltage (68 volts) going to the sur-ron DC/DC converter, that which I tapped into the wires, seems to voltage sag with very little load. These are 2 smaller wires and the 68 volts (battery voltage) goes on and off when you turn the sur-ron key.

Basically just the sur-ron dc/dc converter will drop the voltage from 58 volts to 48 volts just by connecting the sur-ron dc/dc converter and that draws less than 1 amp from the 68 volts wires.

I'm not sure how the battery voltage gets turned on and off to the sur-ron DC/DC converter when turning the key or bike ON,but there is something that seriously limits the current and you get huge voltage sag by trying to draw power from these wires.

Would anyone have an idea on what Sur-Ron could have done to limit the current going to the dc/dc converter and which causes huge voltage sag if trying to use these 68 volt wires?

Is this some kind of safety precaution they built in or is it just resistance in how the power gets sent when turning the key on/off?


I thought all along my DC/DC converter was the issue because I would never imagine that the high voltage battery input, which I probably only use 1.5 amps max, would be the issue. When I connect directly to the battery using alligator clips, I can power all my lights which draw 12.5 amps, with no issues.
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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Aug 09 2020 4:41pm

As far as I know, the battery voltage goes from the breaker to the key switch (via the small glass fuse) to the DC-DC. You might want to check the voltages on the ends of the glass fuse. You shouldn't be seeing that kind of drop. Something is getting hot somewhere that's not supposed to be or one of your measurement points is bad.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 10 2020 1:31pm

With further testing the issue comes from the negative wire and not the positive. I'm not sure where the negative wire connects to. I may just connect directly to the battery with the negative and keep the positive connected to the connector this way the key will turn on/off my 2nd dc/dc converter.

The negative wire is not controller by the switch.

Its hard to find out where these wires all run because I don't want to start ripping the bike apart.

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Offroader   100 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Offroader » Aug 10 2020 7:05pm

I figured out the issue. The ground wire I used was actually the Positive 12volt wire.

I connected to the +67 volt wire and the +12 volt wire. I actually got voltage from this because there was a 12,500 ohm connection from +12 volts to ground. This was enough to power my DC/DC converter even though it was going through a 12,500 ohm resistance, hence the problems I was having.

I then connected to the proper ground wire and everything works. Wasted many hours and ripped my bike apart to figure this out.

The bikes DC/DC power supply has 3 wires and shares a ground for the battery voltage and +12 volts.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Aug 10 2020 9:36pm

I'm not exactly sure where that negative connection is but I think it must be about 4" up from the main controller lug. There's a section covered in heat shrink there and I don't see anywhere else it might come out.

Glad you figured it out. The stock dc-dc seems to be pretty good but I'm not pushing it.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

diego-swiss   1 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by diego-swiss » Aug 12 2020 2:45pm

Hello guys, can anyone help me ?
I have a Sur-Ron X with now a BAC8000 installed on it, stock battery not BMS bypassed (for now - I would like to buy in some weeks/months a 72V), and just want to setup it correctly to have great power, but I am not very interested in top speed, I just want a very good torque. It work actually but not better than the X controller (and to say everything less good as the X controller), so something is wrong in the setup...

Can anyone give me the rights data I must enter for :
-> in motor setup
General Motor Current (Amps) :
Rater Motor Power (Race Mode Throlle Power) (Watts) :
Rated Motor Speed (RPM) :
Gear Ratio (N:1) :

-> In throttle setup
Throttle Full Voltage (Volts) :
Throttle Off Voltage (Volts) :
Throttle Fault Range (Volts) :

-> In Manufacturer Settings
Controller Output Current Rating (Amps) :
Controller Input Voltage Rating (Volts) :
Phase A Current Gain (Amps/Volts) :
Phase C Current Gian (amps/Volts) :

Thank you in advance for your help and please don't say me buy I better battery or made the BMS bypass, I just want to leave the stock battery for now and replace it after for a 72V. Thanks in advance for your HELP !

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Aug 12 2020 9:14pm

If you limit the battery amps to around 100A, the stock battery can handle it unless it's a really hot day.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

aschigrunder   100 µW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by aschigrunder » Aug 13 2020 4:45am

Where you from, Gruss aus Bern

Tolkano   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Tolkano » Aug 13 2020 7:14pm

Whats the max length shock that fits the stock linkage?

Will a 270mm eye to eye fit?

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X-Nitro   1 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Aug 13 2020 11:42pm

tolkaNo wrote:
Aug 13 2020 7:14pm
Whats the max length shock that fits the stock linkage?

Will a 270mm eye to eye fit?
Stock shock is 266.7mm so yes, you will be able to fit that shock.
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

Kauaiguy   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Kauaiguy » Aug 14 2020 1:47pm

Anyone change their rear shock spring to a 500lb rate,stock is 450.At 165lb Rider weight my spring is to soft and adding more pre comp is not a solution.Springs that fit are rare.Fox makes one but it’s 8.25 long and we need 7.6 long.

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sens_dep   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sens_dep » Aug 15 2020 3:56pm

fechter wrote:
Aug 12 2020 9:14pm
If you limit the battery amps to around 100A, the stock battery can handle it unless it's a really hot day.
Define hot... summers here are almost always 105 f (40 c) lol

I’ve been running mine at 100A for a few months with my nucular, hasn’t burnt up YET. Running this hot and this hard should degrade the battery faster, right?

Kauaiguy   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Kauaiguy » Aug 17 2020 12:58pm

Where to get replacement battery:
My battery died,shows 37 percent on the battery but only 27v at the output.Where are replacement batteries available.Luna is out of stock.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Aug 17 2020 2:35pm

sens_dep wrote:
Aug 15 2020 3:56pm
fechter wrote:
Aug 12 2020 9:14pm
If you limit the battery amps to around 100A, the stock battery can handle it unless it's a really hot day.
Define hot... summers here are almost always 105 f (40 c) lol

I’ve been running mine at 100A for a few months with my nucular, hasn’t burnt up YET. Running this hot and this hard should degrade the battery faster, right?
I'm not sure at what temperature the battery goes into shutdown. On a 100F day, just parking in the sun a long time will get it close.
All the battery experts say higher temperatures degrade the battery faster. Certainly storing at high ambient is not as good as storing at lower temps. But warmer batteries perform better, less sag and more usable capacity. I'm not really sure if discharging them while hot is worse than discharging them when they are cold. Too cold is bad also.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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X-Nitro   1 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Aug 18 2020 11:13pm

Kauaiguy wrote:
Aug 17 2020 12:58pm
Where to get replacement battery:
My battery died,shows 37 percent on the battery but only 27v at the output.Where are replacement batteries available.Luna is out of stock.
I got a new battery from the elecycle-aliexpress store, it shipped from so-cal in less than a week.
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Aug 19 2020 8:06am

X-Nitro wrote:
Aug 18 2020 11:13pm

I got a new battery from the elecycle-aliexpress store, it shipped from so-cal in less than a week.
Sure enough. Nice to have another source. Here's the link:
https://www.elecycles.com/sur-ron-light ... ttery.html
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by dirkdiggler » Aug 20 2020 7:22pm

Kauai-
How many miles on your bike? First I've heard of the battery problems. I have had mine for almost three years now, 2,500 miles. Still get about 50 miles per charge.

Kauaiguy   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Kauaiguy » Aug 20 2020 8:02pm

My Bms is what went bad,it won’t charge or run the motor but on the battery rails I get 57v and 38 percent on the battery gauge.Luna wants me to send it to them for repair,but I live on a island in Hawaii so it’s more complicated to ship surface.About 1000 miles of narly off-road over 9 months.

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