Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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X-Nitro   1 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by X-Nitro » Nov 03 2020 3:17am

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Nov 02 2020 9:04pm
The stock controller has a low voltage cut off at 49V and can run at 75V (18S) without problems.
That's good information, I still want to know what the over-volt shutdown voltage is tho...my nuc IS getting closer (paid for)...8 months & counting...
:shock: 48v 1500w Custom 1/2 fatty bannaseat hardtail hub streetbike - The modern electric "stingray" mullet bike :bolt: E-Goat Sur-Ron

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ggHawk   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by ggHawk » Nov 03 2020 6:58pm

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Nov 02 2020 9:04pm
The stock controller has a low voltage cut off at 49V and can run at 75V (18S) without problems.
I've backpacked 18S as a "I've gone too far - get me home" insurance policy with 1.2 meter extension wire out of it.

Let us know how you go with that controller. Be great to see more options on the market
IMO the Nuclear is awesome if you can get your hands on one. The ASI BAC8000 was garbage, but it did come from ERT so no surprise there.
Thanks. Good info!
Do you have a spec for the stock controller that shows it's max voltage? Or is this just trial and error.

What do you mean by "garbage"? The one I got from ERT was literally garbage because it didn't work at all (DOA). But the one I got from Teznic works great! - after finally getting the settings right. It's extremely configurable.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by JuiceMeUp » Nov 04 2020 2:27am

ggHawk wrote:
Nov 03 2020 6:58pm
Do you have a spec for the stock controller that shows it's max voltage? Or is this just trial and error.
Pulled apart a couple of the stock controllers, gutting them to house the Nuclear controller. The capacitors are rated to 80V form memory. Didn't bother looking up the spec of the mosfets. Fell under my planned 18S (75V) application. Wouldn't go beyond that though.

Naps   1 µW

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Re: DIY X160?

Post by Naps » Nov 06 2020 3:46am

smdub wrote:
Oct 31 2020 3:29pm
Has anyone thought of building a DIY X160 for a little kid?

My kid is 10 and is riding an OSET 20R now. Its small for him riding trails w/ the seat and top speed is low. He rode a friends KLX110 last weekend and loved it. Though he can't shift it, kick start it, or pick it back up when it fell over in a rut. :( He complained about the brakes too (drums suck compared to his OSETs upgraded discs.) So wondering about a bigger electric until hes ready to step up to a gas bike w/ a clutch. I don't really like the DC drive in the OSET so I won't upgrade to a 24R. The KLX110 is 27" seat height. The X160 is 30" so probably still a LITTLE bit tall for him. The X160 also costs as much as a SurRon so I'm tempted to just buy another SurRon and lower it to 160 levels (or maybe even a little more for now.) More pros on converting vs buying a X160 is that it would give us a 2nd big battery and could swap the orig parts back on it as he grows.

For the front end, I could retrofit a single crown fork or drop the oem forks in the triple clamps and put travel limiters in. The rear I can find a shorter shock, just get a shorter spring and run w/ less preload, or even make a new shorter shock link. So the suspension parts seem pretty straightforward w/ several options.

The wheels become the next problem. Doesn't look like I can buy the X160 17" wheels anywhere yet though that is probably the simplest/cheapest option. I could buy the 17" supermoto wheels and put dirt rubber on them? I could also make my own, though that would be the priciest option. Front would be easiest as I can lace any rim (like a YZ80/YZ85 17" or YZ65 14") to a matching hole count 20mm hub. The rear is more tricky. The SurRon hub is 36 hole. I found the CRF150 has a 16" 36 hole rear rim. Or even a 12" KLX110 36h rim. Haven't found a 14" yet. Would have to check the tire diameters available to see what combination works.

Thoughts?
My son is 9 years old and I also have the task of adapting Surron to his growth.
There is a seller from China on Amazon:
Electricity
https://www.amazon.com/sp?_encoding=UTF ... &sshmPath=
they have small bicycle and motorcycle rims.
Write to me in PM if you need their phone number and by messenger you can ask them to put the rims you need on Amazon.
I bought Hub - Hope 36H.
https://www.hopetech.com/products/hubs/ ... front-hub/
Handlebar:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07RZ ... UTF8&psc=1 ,
Fork:
https://www.bike24.com/p2370691.html
Breaker:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/APICO-Magnetic ... 2749.l2649
shock absorber:
https://aliexpress.ru/item/400001347455 ... 33edtHZTEa
To reduce the height of the saddle, I ordered metal strips.
I bought a Sur Rona X (the speed limiter has not cut it off yet) so that later, when my son grows up, he will have a full-fledged electric bike, like the brothers.
Mikhail

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Nov 06 2020 1:07pm

Thanks, I'll look into those. I missed out on a local SurRon on Craigslist this week. I emailed 26min after the ad was posted but wasn't quick enough - it sold quick.

I mountain bike so I might have the parts already. For example, I had a RockShox air shock that was a perfect fit to upgrade his OSET. I have several 20mmTA 29er forks too. I see the fork you listed has a tapered steer tube. The stock SurRun is straight. I haven't searched, but is there a bottom bearing that can be used w/ tapered? Sure would make finding a fork easier. His OSET also uses a straight steer tube and the choices for a 20mmTA air fork w/ that are very limited (FWIW, I got a Manitou Circus for that.)

Hawaiiguy   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hawaiiguy » Nov 07 2020 4:00pm

New seat from Racespec- Surron ,tried to post a picture but no luck.

iliketurtles   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by iliketurtles » Nov 09 2020 2:20pm

JuiceMeUp wrote:
Nov 02 2020 9:04pm
BMS trips at between 90 and 110 amps depending on what version you have (140 doesn't seem right assuming it's the stock battery. Even with BMS bypass your cell lifespan is going to be greatly reduced).
Any idea if there's a way to tell from the battery what the BMS will trip at? I thought the newer batteries were more restricted than the old ones (60A?) but my 24F came preconfigured for 90A, and I bumped it to 100 a couple of days back and it seemed fine drawing the full 100A even down at 28% capacity (this is an unmodded battery without bypass).

I'm guessing I can just bump to 110 and see if it starts cutting out but my tiny garden isn't safe to push it that high :lol:

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sn0wchyld   1 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sn0wchyld » Nov 09 2020 2:54pm

motomoto wrote:
Dec 26 2018 11:28am
Here is the test results from ASI.

Surron Dyno Run 2018-11-26 (1).xlsx
does anyone know if this was with the older 'golden motor' or the more recent 'surron' motor?

or have a more recent run?

been hunting for the kv/kt numbers on this motor for ages, and the stock controller phase amps. .cheers.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Nov 09 2020 3:56pm

iliketurtles wrote:
Nov 09 2020 2:20pm
JuiceMeUp wrote:
Nov 02 2020 9:04pm
BMS trips at between 90 and 110 amps depending on what version you have (140 doesn't seem right assuming it's the stock battery. Even with BMS bypass your cell lifespan is going to be greatly reduced).
Any idea if there's a way to tell from the battery what the BMS will trip at? I thought the newer batteries were more restricted than the old ones (60A?) but my 24F came preconfigured for 90A, and I bumped it to 100 a couple of days back and it seemed fine drawing the full 100A even down at 28% capacity (this is an unmodded battery without bypass).

I'm guessing I can just bump to 110 and see if it starts cutting out but my tiny garden isn't safe to push it that high :lol:
It may not trip at 100A, but I was able to overheat the cells and make it shut down during a ride. Sort of sucked because I had to wait quite a while for it to cool off before I could get it to reset. This probably won't be an issue during the winter.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Amaxophobie   100 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Amaxophobie » Nov 10 2020 3:32am

I'm guessing I can just bump to 110 and see if it starts cutting out but my tiny garden isn't safe to push it that high :lol:
Pulling temporarily more than the "not tripping" 90A is possible. I tested my stock battery with short bursts up to 120A. If this load is within 5-6 seconds and the BMS is not triggered by the temps it's possible to pull that amount.

BUT I would prefer riding a safe, failproof system with a few watts less over a system with a bit more power and the possibility of a complete shutdown (and perhaps waiting for a cool down of cells).

If you already have a NUC 24F, you could think about upgrading to a 72V battery. It's worth it :D
Stunt scooter conversion |AP 80100 | KLS 7218S | 23 kg
viewtopic.php?f=35&t=97391
Chinese Pit Bike Conversion | Nucular 12F | LMX-Motor 60mm | 18s 16Ah LiPo
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=102714

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andrenoites   100 W

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by andrenoites » Nov 11 2020 7:04am

Is it ok to run the stock Sur Ron motor at 22s with a aftermarket controller like the Kelly KLS8430H?

iliketurtles   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by iliketurtles » Nov 11 2020 8:04pm

Amaxophobie wrote:
Nov 10 2020 3:32am
If you already have a NUC 24F, you could think about upgrading to a 72V battery. It's worth it :D
Oh I know, but I'm already about £2500 into mods on this thing so waiting a couple of months before I pull the trigger on a battery as well :lol:

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Nov 11 2020 8:24pm

I have a Nucular 24F coming soon and I've been looking at the Lightspeed batts. I'm leaning towards the 60V/42Ah as it fits stock. Would make swapping back/forth to the stock battery easier - could just program one of the modes to have less current. The voltage limits don't change. Shouldn't give up anything except for 20% top speed (72/60=120%)

Though I have to admit wondering about building a 12V/42Ah aux pack to put in series. Could hide it under the seat or something like some others have done. Could make one for the stock pack too.

Edit: I now see the 60V/42Ah isn't using the Sony cells. Doesn't look like Litespeed makes a 60V pack w/ the high discharge cells :( Maybe I'll get the 72V/30Ah pack after all. I definitely want the higher power.

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sens_dep   1 mW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by sens_dep » Nov 13 2020 1:05pm

smdub wrote:
Nov 11 2020 8:24pm
I have a Nucular 24F coming soon and I've been looking at the Lightspeed batts. I'm leaning towards the 60V/42Ah as it fits stock. Would make swapping back/forth to the stock battery easier - could just program one of the modes to have less current. The voltage limits don't change. Shouldn't give up anything except for 20% top speed (72/60=120%)

Though I have to admit wondering about building a 12V/42Ah aux pack to put in series. Could hide it under the seat or something like some others have done. Could make one for the stock pack too.

Edit: I now see the 60V/42Ah isn't using the Sony cells. Doesn't look like Litespeed makes a 60V pack w/ the high discharge cells :( Maybe I'll get the 72V/30Ah pack after all. I definitely want the higher power.
Check out @surronshop on Instagram / Facebook. They have 60v/52ah packs that can ship globally. Looking for someone to go in on 2 packs with me. $1600 per battery, $800 shipping. It gets cheaper if you buy two...

They say it can pull 250 amps. Their videos seem to prove it as well. Super interested.
(They fit the stock size)

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by smdub » Nov 13 2020 1:59pm

sens_dep wrote:
Nov 13 2020 1:05pm
Check out @surronshop on Instagram / Facebook. They have 60v/52ah packs that can ship globally. Looking for someone to go in on 2 packs with me. $1600 per battery, $800 shipping. It gets cheaper if you buy two...

They say it can pull 250 amps. Their videos seem to prove it as well. Super interested.
(They fit the stock size)
I don't have IG or FB accounts but they have a website: https://www.surronshop.com
The 60v/52Ah doesn't fit stock. You have to lift the rear latch just like some of the larger litespeed packs. I'm trying to avoid that.
250A peak out of 52Ah is a 5C LiPo. Thats typical of a lot of large NMC packs. I'm guessing they're using a 16S2P 26Ah pouches. If I wanted to go LiPo I have twenty 40Ah hardcase cells here I could build up. Using 12 of them (12S1P) in the kid's OSET 20R currently. I think they are also 3C cont, 5C surge. The bummer is they're rated 1/5C charge. Takes FOREVER to recharge them.

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by StingerRUS » Nov 28 2020 7:30pm

Guys,

Does anyone in US has supermotard wheel set for sale?
Out of stock at Lunacycle for several months now... Can't wait any longer...

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Nov 28 2020 9:54pm

I was out riding my Sur-ron around China Camp Park a few days ago and had to stop for a flock of wild turkeys.
Img_1809.jpg
Img_1809.jpg (186.82 KiB) Viewed 826 times
This was two days before Thanksgiving. I guess they didn't know they were in danger of being eaten. Hitting one of those things at speed would be bad. There were a lot of them too, usually you just see one or two.

My Sur-ron has been very reliable and my only issue now is a slow leak in the rear tire. I'll probably live with it until I wear out the tire and go for a new tube. The belt has been virtually maintenance free. I just wash the teeth and sprockets once in a while. Meter is showing 1350 miles.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by thoroughbred » Nov 29 2020 7:31am

Nice flock fechter!

Packaging comparison. Pile on the left is mobipus setup compared to the oem and then the nucular on the right
20201129_073049.jpg
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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Hawaiiguy » Dec 02 2020 10:14pm

My Teznic Bac8000 shipped last week so will have something to install soon. :D

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Dec 07 2020 6:29am

Did anyone tried connecting sur-ron controller to other motors?
I am trying to spin up a hub motor with this thing and the motor dont even make a sound.

Controller turns on with the red/black cable connected to battery plus.
camphoto_1841205112.JPG
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The halls get their voltage
One strange thing is that throttle shows 3,5V at zero:
IMG_0607.jpg
IMG_0607.jpg (114.46 KiB) Viewed 562 times

and 0,8V at full twist:
IMG_0608.jpg
IMG_0608.jpg (112.88 KiB) Viewed 562 times
this is usually vice versa!
Maybe controller need some other input to start spinning the motor?

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Dec 07 2020 9:06am

Something is wacky about the throttle voltage. It should be more like 0.8 at zero throttle and 3.5v at full. If the throttle voltage is high when the controller is turned on, it will lock out as a safety feature. Otherwise your setup should work. It's like the magnets are reversed or the hall sensor is backward.

Just as a test, you could try holding the throttle on so it's 0.8v and turn on the controller, then slowly release it to see if the motor moves. If the hall/phase combination is wrong, you might get destructively high currents, so don't give it much power until you are sure the combination is correct.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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Allex   1 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Allex » Dec 07 2020 10:47am

"could try holding the throttle on so it's 0.8v and turn on the controller, then slowly release it to see if the motor moves."
Tried this, and nope, did not work. Tried this with two different "RON" controllers
The very same throttle works fine with other controllers, just as it should and shows .8V at zero.

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Merlin   10 MW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by Merlin » Dec 07 2020 2:28pm

***delete**** :D
Last edited by Merlin on Dec 07 2020 4:47pm, edited 1 time in total.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by fechter » Dec 07 2020 3:49pm

Allex wrote:
Dec 07 2020 10:47am
"could try holding the throttle on so it's 0.8v and turn on the controller, then slowly release it to see if the motor moves."
Tried this, and nope, did not work. Tried this with two different "RON" controllers
The very same throttle works fine with other controllers, just as it should and shows .8V at zero.
In the pictures above, it looks like you're measuring between the red and green wires. But hard to see in the picture for sure.
That would give you goofy readings for sure.

You want to measure from black to green.

The wire colors coming from the harness are non-standard but the wires coming from the throttle seem to be.

Other than the red/black "ignition" line the only other inputs would be the throttle, motor hall sensors, and two brake inputs. The brake inputs should be OK with the lines disconnected.

If the motor hall sensor signals were invalid, it would also stop it from working. At no point in the motor rotation should all 3 signals be high or low. Two at the most.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

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motomoto   1 kW

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Re: Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

Post by motomoto » Dec 08 2020 1:49am

does anyone know if this was with the older 'golden motor' or the more recent 'surron' motor?
It's a Sur-ron motor bought from Luna. Made 7,765 watts of mechanical power at 50 volts and 300 amps

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