Kuberg Freerider Extended Swingarm Project

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Kuberg Freerider Extended Swingarm Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 24 2017 3:01pm

It seems that ever since my first Ebike I have found myself in an endless cycle of never ending electric bike builds seeking the ultimate experience. Problem is my so called "needs" tend to change every year or so, or so I think! By now I have a different bike for each task at hand...

I started this project about 1 month ago and I finally have a rolling chassis and im starting to mount electronics as I type this. I've had my eye on this bike since they were on kickstarter and I did actually put a down payment on one but since the factory took so long to release the bike I got mad and cancelled the order.

Since then I've been in contact with Kuberg pre and post Kelly Knipe who was the first USA rep I spoke with. I was able to obtain a frame and swingarm luckily and I have plans to extend the rear end and increase the wheel size to adapt the bike to a larger person(6'3" 210lb)

I would like to thank DanGT from the forums for providing me with the dropouts im using and also my brother Ben for welding it all up for me with his bosses nice welder :)

Key components of the build include
Sexy Kuberg Frame (I think this is ES first)
DNM USD-8 Volcano front fork
DNM RCP-3 Burner rear shock with upgraded 750lb spring
Lighting Rods big block motor
Kelly KLS7218SW 200A controller sine wave
18S 24AH Multistar LIPO
DanGT extended dropouts

Anyway I'm not much of a talker that's why I take hundreds of pictures.
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Rear shock came with a 450lb spring but I ordered the 750lb from em3ev and it already came in
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Swingarm
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Mockup
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Stance pics
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Jan 27 2018 2:01pm, edited 4 times in total.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 24 2017 3:08pm

Front forks came in the mail today!! Unfortunately I was an idiot and bought these on Ebay, they are an older model and did not come with the disc brake adaptor! Doh. I now know that em3ev sells this same item $20 cheaper and its the newer one...Oh well
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 24 2017 3:30pm

Here are the awesome dropouts from DanGT
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they are like 4mm too wide from fitting perfectly into the old dropouts
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So my friend Richie busted out his cordless bandsaw and helped me cut the droputs a tad smaller. First one was cut so sloppy! then second one was nice, you know me far from a perfectionist!
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SlowCo   10 kW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by SlowCo » Aug 24 2017 3:33pm

This is going to be interesting!
Subscribing and I wish you good luck.

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by madin88 » Aug 24 2017 3:40pm

Will follow that build^^
Does Kuberg also offer this frame without parts, or from where did you got it?
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 24 2017 4:03pm

So I text my brother and let him know I need his welding skills asap! A few days go by and I completely forget that I asked him until I get a random text saying be there in 45 minutes with a welder!

I immediately busted out my dremmel tool because I still have to take all the paint off the stock dropout and prep them before my Bro shows up and I am not prepared!

I am missing tons of pieces to my dremmel and my cordless one is missing even more pieces. I did what I could with what I had
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They fit in LIKE A GLOVE
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Here you can see the sloppy bandsaw cuts but that will be welded up in no time!
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First tacked everything down
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My bro hard at work setting paint on fire
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Lopped off the disc brake mount since its not in the right spot
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lookin good!
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So nice thanks Ben!
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 25 2017 8:58am

So shortly after getting the frame in the mail I noticed that this head tube was not even close to a 1-1/8" normal headset size. I started freaking out a little since I already bought my forks...

I busted out my trusty digital caliper measuring tool and it read 44mm I.D. After doing some research on bicycle forums I found that they did actually make a 44mm headset they were just not all that common. Found a Cane Creek sealed 44mm headset online and clicked BUY IT NOW

So until that comes in the mail I will start assembling the rear end to get an idea of the geometry of the bike now, and I had a feeling my sprocket was going to need to be re aligned since this bike is slightly wider than the Genesis

Rear wheel fits between the dropouts perfectly, the dropouts on the kuberg were only 130mm wide so adding the extenders made it about 142mm now

Still being able to use the same rear hub and tensioner was important to me. If it aint broke don't fix it!
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I have a feeling this wheel wont be strong enough for the power ill be putting thru it..I already have a 18" moto rim if I need to rebuild which I may later
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Random useless shot
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Yup just what I thought! the sprocket is way to far inside, no worries I can play it out no problem
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Aug 29 2017 10:25am, edited 1 time in total.

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 25 2017 9:51am

Update! My headset came in!

For some reason the bottom bearing had this super strong copper press fit ring to seat on the fork, and I wasn't sure if it was going to go all the way down it was brutal. I ended up using a large piece of steel tubing with the perfect diameter to pound the bearing into place without ruining it. You can see a little grease seeping out
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Here you can see the Cane creek headset they call it the FORTY
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Finally a rolling chassis!
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The wheelbase seems a bit close together compared to the long Genesis swingarm, I can go back another inch on the dropouts but id rather not, lets hope all is well with the handling
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 25 2017 3:02pm

I ordered some random $15 dirt bike pegs offline thinking any peg would fit this thing, they barely fit, pins were a tad short and they weren't even close to sitting straight and they are different on both sides...odd Kuberg must use two different offset pegs

I have a feeling I will be adapting my own pegs and I may possible use stationary pedals similar to how LMX bike does theirs and drop them a tad lower than they are now, this will be a ways down the road im sure
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Put a seat on to see what it looks like I also may change the upper frame and use a regular bicycle seat? Thoughts?
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Random shot with the wheel not even straight
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I decided its time to move the rear sprocket to get an idea of the chainline
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Have to move it to the outside
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These bolts were rusted in pretty good needed a socket adaptor
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Success!
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Much better!
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 25 2017 3:48pm

Woot! Controller and 18" rear moto rim and tire are here from Eastgem! Thanks Alex

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This is officially my third Kelly controller
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I have a feeling this is where im going to put it, need to slightly modify the mounting flanges tho
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Also got my 750lb spring in the mail from em3ev and swapped that out
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litespeed   100 kW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by litespeed » Aug 25 2017 5:52pm

Nice.

Tom
I'm married so you know I'm no stranger to pain!

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madin88   100 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by madin88 » Aug 26 2017 1:15am

Is this the "unique motorcycle rim with 24" size"?
I wonder what it weights...

Nice to see that controller has smaller connectors and not the bulky ones from Kelly.

what battery are you going to use?
- 10kW belt drive with Neumotor 8057: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=91144&start=50#p1377787
- Fully road legal (L1E approval) e-bike based on Votec V-FR frame
/ MXUS 3T / 17" Mitas MC11 / Adaptto Max-E / 20s12p 25R
- KTM Hardtail Pedelec / eZee V2 6T / 27,5" / Kelly KBSX @ 1,5kW / Torque PAS / CA-V3 / 13s4p Sanyo GA in Shark case

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 28 2017 11:00am

So i made a ridiculous 2x4 wooden seat to get an idea of what I can do with this upper frame...Not really sure yet if I want a moto seat or a bicycle seat?
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Mounted a bike seat to it just for kicks, not in the right position at all
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Donor motor from the Genesis bike(LR HD) that went back to a hubbie
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The mounting holes are completely different than the frame and this is not going to be ideal at all! But ill make it work
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Took about 30 minutes moving the sprocket to where I thought I needed it, afterwards found out I wasted my time...
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Getting an idea of the chainline and it looks like what I have to work with isn't going to line up, but ill figure it out
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Had to put two 219 cart chains together to get enough length! Got the motor mounted with three smaller screws in the center, but the outer stronger two don't line up at all. I will have to either weld or get fancy
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The chain is also awfully close the the top of the swingarm and I think its going to be a problem, I played to motor as high as I could too. Again not too worried
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Will need a rear tensioner setup somehow, this is to be determined OFC
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Full shot
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Aug 30 2017 7:29am

The Ebay seller I bought my forks from was very nice and sent me the brake adaptor that I didn't get when I ordered them from the get go. I was shocked that it was that easy!
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I also ordered a Shimano front hydraulic brake system for now. I didn't want to buy the front/rear kits since I learned on my last build the hoses aren't long enough anyway...

Also got around to slightly cutting my controller so I can mount it where I was planning, now it tucks in nicely
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It still slightly raised in the front but I don't think its a big deal and didn't want to cut both sides, I think it will be fine
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 01 2017 10:25am

Threw the nice wide bars from my Genesis on this bike since the Genesis is now a street commuter it doesn't need them...I was going to buy more but they are really hard to find this wide
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Tucked the wires not related to the motor up high and terminated them all
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Then got ready to terminate the motor portion of the wiring
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 11 2017 4:41pm

This project hit a slight stand still for a bit, but on a positive note... I was able to get in touch with Kuberg one more time and obtain a seat! This was one of those "if it aint broke dont fix it" sort of things. I did think about building a new subframe to attach a standard bicycle seat post setup, but i am going to give the Kuberg moto seat a try i figure why not?

I also ordered a set of foot pegs for testing purposes but i have a feeling they are going to be too high up for my long ass legs. I have plans to use a dropbar similar to the lmx bikes, but also this will interfere with the bottom skid plate so i will have to wait and see how everything lines up.

Finally i got a roller chain tensioner that i am planning to mount to the swingarm. I've been stalling on this too since i need a special washer to play out my LR motor sprocket another 2mm lol.

Here is a picture of a Razor scooter I pimped out for a friends kid, thing hauls my 215lbs around so a kid will have tons of fun!
boosted it from 24v SLA to 36v Lithium with a 350w brushes controller and new variable thumb throttle/brake cutoff
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 12 2017 8:52am

Front end had to come apart again because I put a 180mm rotor on but the really odd DNM adaptor is for 203mm rotor only.
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This rotor was cheap and its made from Stainless steel I don't know if that good or bad, seems pretty heavy duty
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Also got my front brake in the mail, ordered the longest hose I could find which was 850mm and its still too short! This seems to happen with all hydraulic brakes on Ebikes...
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Now I will have to get a hose/barb kit and bleed the system with new mineral oil...yay!

For now I have the brake system mounted with the hose as tight as it get! good enough for now
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 15 2017 4:43pm

I had a feeling this was going to happen...but the Kuberg seat is way too skinny and its not made for someone my size. Its like you can only fit one butt cheek on it at a time, take your choice. Also just as i expected th stock peg location is too high for my tall lanky legs and im going to have to weld on some sort of drop bar below where they are now to give my knees some slack. So i pretty much wasted my money finding out these parts are kid sized which i already knew.

Ok now back to the drawing board!

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 16 2017 6:37am

Im all excited about my parts coming in today! But then I open the box and go "huh, that seat looks pretty skinny" Hah and yes it is
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Looks semi-cool but its not going to work with my big butt
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Pegs are also mounted too high so they are also useless, they are also way too small for my big feet, so I basically paid for a skid plate and a goofy little fender! Now I know
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Shot of seat on bike
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Full shot
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Threw the pegs on so I can test ride the thing but they wont be staying long...
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Last edited by skeetab5780 on Sep 18 2017 1:50pm, edited 1 time in total.

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livetek   10 mW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by livetek » Sep 18 2017 3:01am

Hi,

Your picture do not seem to work (see attachement)
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 18 2017 1:51pm

Thanks I just noticed that, I think they are fixed now

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 18 2017 2:05pm

So I figured since all my controllers are Kelly brand that the wiring combo's and color coordination would match on them all, so instead of testing things I copied the combinations from my old KLX controller and soldered everything up neat...Then when I go to power the thing up the motor doesn't work! I was pissed LOL

After about 30minutes of messing with combos and ripping it all apart we got it sorted out!

Have all the connections terminated below the motor tucked between the skid plate
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They look neat enough for me
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Got all my battery wires lengthened
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I didn't realize how skinny this battery compartment is! I thought my 12ah multi-stars would be sloppy inside the frame but they fit like a glove! no side to side play
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The one thing that is a little shitty is that you have to take the sub frame off to fit them into place. I was thinking they would slide in but since they are such a tight fit you cannot cut corners
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Batteries installed, will need larger pack soon, I am doubling the capacity
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Put a couple pieces of foam to protect the battery while its in testing phase
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The battery hold the controller in place!
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This is the first time I've had problems with the reversal of the motor, I got it spinning backwards about 3 times but then I tried this process and it didn't work. Usually works first try for me...was an odd one
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Pic of the battery hooked up powering system
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Now time to work on this silly chain tensioner
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Had to cut it down a bit which ended up making the spring a bit off, but oh well
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Put the spacer inside the hole that you see up on the ground in a few pics then bolted it on so it swings
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Scratched the frame a few times but who cares
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The spring hold tension but its halfway falling off so we will see how long it lasts! worst case I get a different spring
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Close-up
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Full shot
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I took it for a test ride and it seems ok, not perfect yet. I like the LR genesis system since there was no chain slack to deal with :)
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I think I need a slightly shorter stem since it feel akward to steer the from end with this really long one
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Lastly I mounted the bottom skid plate that I thought was aluminum but is solid steel and weighs a good 2 pounds...geez
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Hopefully it protects my stuff and makes it all worth while
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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 18 2017 4:29pm

Im hoping bzh chimes in or someone else with Kelly sine wave controller experience. Im having really bad throttle control like i did before i programmed my old klx controller. Problem is the programming software for the new sine wave controllers are completely different than the old klx models and i have no clue how to fix the problem right now. When you hit the throttle while coasting it jerks you back sort of like regen kicking on but its not, then you must apply more throttle to power thru this until the motor rpms pick up. Im not sure if its the throttle but many others are using this model and i used one on my last scooter build and it works fine.

Ill have to post pics of the new setup program there is no throttle ramp up options and hardly any checkbox style options like previous programs. Its all blank boxes where you can input numerical values only..

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skeetab5780   10 MW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by skeetab5780 » Sep 18 2017 4:55pm

Manual says your supposed to run the identification angle process before running motor, but i did my phase combos manually and got it spinning old school. I did the same on the dirt bike with bht motor also and it worked fine. Idk i will try to do this tomorrow and magically hope it fixes things!

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livetek   10 mW

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Re: Kuberg Freerider Project

Post by livetek » Sep 19 2017 2:46am

Nice job man, how about the power ?
For the stem, do a direct mount installation, it will looks way better ! ;)
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