FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

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FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 13 2018 3:34am

Another news to friends here is:
We are having a fat bike version AM1000 soon. same suspension construction as AM1000, with front ROCKSHOX Bluto fork 26" 120mm travel, rear ROCKSHOX Monarch suspension.
We are having 2 sample bikes ready soon. But not sure about what color for frame will be pretty, matte black too much, Any advice from you on colors for our reference?

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by starky_boi » Jan 13 2018 7:42am

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Last edited by starky_boi on Sep 25 2019 3:24pm, edited 1 time in total.

amigafan2003   1 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by amigafan2003 » Jan 13 2018 8:36am

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 13 2018 3:34am
Another news to friends here is:
We are having a fat bike version AM1000 soon. same suspension construction as AM1000, with front ROCKSHOX Bluto fork 26" 120mm travel, rear ROCKSHOX Monarch suspension.
We are having 2 sample bikes ready soon. But not sure about what color for frame will be pretty, matte black too much, Any advice from you on colors for our reference?
Do lime greem with mat black accents and you can:-

Image

Like this:-

Image

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 13 2018 10:06am

My favorite color is electric blue or Laguna Seca Blue. The only problem is that when we need touchup paint, where would we find it? Find a nail polish of a close color? But it will never be a match. Maybe you could provide an automotive paint code so that we can have paint made at an automotive paint shop.

And speaking of the Pivot, how close can you come to its 44 lb weight? =)

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/news/artic ... ook-50706/

https://www.google.com/search?q=Laguna+ ... 3&bih=1020

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FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 13 2018 3:34am
...But not sure about what color for frame will be pretty, matte black too much, Any advice from you on colors for our reference?

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Johne-bike   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Johne-bike » Jan 14 2018 8:28am

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 13 2018 3:34am
Another news to friends here is:
We are having a fat bike version AM1000 soon. same suspension construction as AM1000, with front ROCKSHOX Bluto fork 26" 120mm travel, rear ROCKSHOX Monarch suspension.
We are having 2 sample bikes ready soon. But not sure about what color for frame will be pretty, matte black too much, Any advice from you on colors for our reference?
This is indeed excellent news!
I was about to order an AM 1000 regular bike, but I really wanted a Fatbike version.. I currently ride a Fatbike with Mxus 3000w and Front suspension, but have dreamed of a Mid motor, FS version so Frey's news is very exciting.
My colour first choice would be Semi Matt Black with Red Anodised Jinhua Powercircle rims with the Triangle cutouts. They are strong, and beautifully finished. This is the colour of my current Fatbike, and I love it!
My second choice would be the BMW Estoril Blue or similar, with Gold or black Anodised Jinhua Powercircle rims, again with the triangle cutouts.
I can't wait to see more details of the prototype bikes, and information on the future production models, specs and prices..
66515.jpg
Panther Hercules One Fat Bike in Thailand

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Johne-bike » Jan 14 2018 8:45am

For the Fatbike version, I would also like the option to order factory Front and Rear Fenders.
Also a Rear Carrier rack, ideally strong enough to carry a 60kg load, so suitable for carrying a pillion passenger at times. Now my Fatbike has a 25kgs rated rear carrier and seat fitted, which is fine for taking my 9 year old daughter to school. But sometimes my 50kgs wife would like to have a ride out on the back..!!
For me, Fenders are essential. My current bike is fitted with my own home made PVC front and rear fenders, and crudguard which look good and work well, but take a lot of work to make. Factory fitted versions would be wonderful!
66490_20180114134428072.jpg
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by icehunter » Jan 15 2018 8:45am

Congratulations on the AM1000 fat bike.
My 5 cents on the bike:
- I like the styling of both the Pivot and the Haibike as the battery/motor are flushly integrated, there is almost no bump in the frame where the battery/motor are. It is therefore not obvious that these bikes have a motor, which is a BIG plus. Battery drops down in both cases, perhaps that is out of necessity as it would be harder to lift them up if they are not raised in frame.
- CE marking is necessary both on bike and battery, otherwise we in Europe can not import the bike, or risk the bike be returned at customs.
- Integrated lights, the controller display already has a button for lights
- Fenders definately.
- Tubeless ready rims, I guess
- Colour, hard to say, but I would copy the Haibike or the Pivot. Why reinvent the wheel if somebody else has already done the research of "mass appeal".

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Drum » Jan 17 2018 3:06pm

When designing the rear suspension, keep the bearings for the main swing arm as wide apart as possible, to reduce the maximum force on them and keep the back end as stiff as possible.
Three reasons:
-The chain forces on e-bikes are greater than normal bikes, and there are reports of frames bending sideways due to chain tension;
-It is nicer to ride a bike that feels "solid" than one that feels "flexy".. more confidence inspiring;
-Reducing the forces on the bearings will help them last longer, reducing future maintenance requirements.

I have seen several "mountain bike" frames where the rear suspension bearings have been close together, with no reason not to place them further apart.. bad design. Perhaps the designers thought all forces were neatly aligned in the bike and there would not be any significant side force on the rear suspension.. maybe on narrow-tyred road bikes ridden on smooth surfaces that is reasonable, but mountain bikes can experience very significant side force on the rear wheel when being ridden hard, and the frame needs to be designed to resist these forces.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 17 2018 10:08pm

Drum wrote:
Jan 17 2018 3:06pm
When designing the rear suspension, keep the bearings for the main swing arm as wide apart as possible, to reduce the maximum force on them and keep the back end as stiff as possible.
Three reasons:
-The chain forces on e-bikes are greater than normal bikes, and there are reports of frames bending sideways due to chain tension;
-It is nicer to ride a bike that feels "solid" than one that feels "flexy".. more confidence inspiring;
-Reducing the forces on the bearings will help them last longer, reducing future maintenance requirements.

I have seen several "mountain bike" frames where the rear suspension bearings have been close together, with no reason not to place them further apart.. bad design. Perhaps the designers thought all forces were neatly aligned in the bike and there would not be any significant side force on the rear suspension.. maybe on narrow-tyred road bikes ridden on smooth surfaces that is reasonable, but mountain bikes can experience very significant side force on the rear wheel when being ridden hard, and the frame needs to be designed to resist these forces.
Hey Drum,

I would be curious to know if the 148mm x 12mm boost spacing and axles are part of the reason to deal with side force? I only ask because I noticed a significant difference in stiffness when I went to a 140mm x 12mm rear frame on my Ellsworth Epiphany.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tumich » Jan 18 2018 6:42am

I am waiting too for new M600 full suspension.
I'd like to see new Bafang 500W motor with suspension similar like Haibike Nduro. I mean front suspension 180mm. Battery 600-800Wh inside downtube in the frame and optional additional 400-600Wh on the frame (modular system).
Haibike launched it but only for non suspension frames.
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My ebikes:
1. Sur ron

Cheap, new, oryginal li-ion cells 18650 up to 3500mAh --> viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Drum » Jan 18 2018 5:28pm

"I would be curious to know if the 148mm x 12mm boost spacing and axles are part of the reason to deal with side force? I only ask because I noticed a significant difference in stiffness when I went to a 140mm x 12mm rear frame on my Ellsworth Epiphany."

Hi DDFred, I guess as tyres get wider the chainline has to move further out and the chainstays move further apart, requiring the wider hub. The bolted or large diameter through axle would add a lot more stability than QR rear axle allows at the rear, and if the extra width at the front is used wisely to design a strong and stiff pivot area, the whole back end will feel (and be) much stiffer.

Tumich: There is another manufacturer (I think Focus, but not sure) offering e-MTBs with a 400 Watt-Hour battery inbuilt, and a separate clip-on 400Wh battery that can be added externally for longer rides. This allows a lighter / cheaper base bike for those people who only ride a couple of hours, and an above-average capacity optional at extra cost.. not a bad idea.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by tumich » Jan 18 2018 6:01pm

Tumich: There is another manufacturer (I think Focus, but not sure) offering e-MTBs with a 400 Watt-Hour battery inbuilt, and a separate clip-on 400Wh battery that can be added externally for longer rides. This allows a lighter / cheaper base bike for those people who only ride a couple of hours, and an above-average capacity optional at extra cost.. not a bad idea.
Focus has optional 2x 360Wh but unfortunately only with Shimano Steps. The worst mid drive ever. You can imagine that it doesn't have toque sensor..

Brose mid drives have optional range extender with 240Wh. So total could be teoreticaly 890Wh.
https://youtu.be/2gQNAt4qi9o?t=2m12s
Sounds good but Brose is good only on paper (in my opinion it has about 70% of Bosch CX power, despite the fact that declare 90Nm versus 75Nm (Bosch).
Maybe Brose S Drive will be improved.

The one thing which looks not good for me in Bafang M600 middrive is "Light Drive Capacity (DCV/W) - 6V/3W.
All Bosch after 2017 have optional 12V and even 35W power. I have headlights dedicated for 12V and it's the best front light available right now. (900 lumens and legal with law in Eu roads).
My ebikes:
1. Sur ron

Cheap, new, oryginal li-ion cells 18650 up to 3500mAh --> viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61608

Animalector   10 kW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Jan 18 2018 6:41pm

Frey: what do you plan to do about the internal battery? or are you planning to make it an external battery?

If it is internal, what battery pack / housing are you planning on using? is there a modular case available that will fit inside a frame? If yes, can you offer a link please?

Thanks

Andy Oudyn

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 19 2018 3:37am

We considerate to design the suspension construction seriously especially to use a big power mid drive motor than EU standard 250W. it is a big force by the side. that's the reason we use the type of rear suspension with a solid rear body on AM1000 with 1000W mid power.
Also we are still thinking about what construction to design on m600 motor with 500W power, there are few example for us to study. As you known, most mid drive motor with related 250W power, Giant Full E with Yamaho is 500W.
Drum wrote:
Jan 17 2018 3:06pm
When designing the rear suspension, keep the bearings for the main swing arm as wide apart as possible, to reduce the maximum force on them and keep the back end as stiff as possible.
Three reasons:
-The chain forces on e-bikes are greater than normal bikes, and there are reports of frames bending sideways due to chain tension;
-It is nicer to ride a bike that feels "solid" than one that feels "flexy".. more confidence inspiring;
-Reducing the forces on the bearings will help them last longer, reducing future maintenance requirements.

I have seen several "mountain bike" frames where the rear suspension bearings have been close together, with no reason not to place them further apart.. bad design. Perhaps the designers thought all forces were neatly aligned in the bike and there would not be any significant side force on the rear suspension.. maybe on narrow-tyred road bikes ridden on smooth surfaces that is reasonable, but mountain bikes can experience very significant side force on the rear wheel when being ridden hard, and the frame needs to be designed to resist these forces.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 19 2018 3:40am

Really nice looking frame , and good design with a standard integrated battery down tube with an additional bottle type battery as option to get a longer range.
tumich wrote:
Jan 18 2018 6:42am
I am waiting too for new M600 full suspension.
I'd like to see new Bafang 500W motor with suspension similar like Haibike Nduro. I mean front suspension 180mm. Battery 600-800Wh inside downtube in the frame and optional additional 400-600Wh on the frame (modular system).
Haibike launched it but only for non suspension frames.
Image

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 19 2018 3:46am

Thank you for your helpful info.
tumich wrote:
Jan 18 2018 6:01pm
Tumich: There is another manufacturer (I think Focus, but not sure) offering e-MTBs with a 400 Watt-Hour battery inbuilt, and a separate clip-on 400Wh battery that can be added externally for longer rides. This allows a lighter / cheaper base bike for those people who only ride a couple of hours, and an above-average capacity optional at extra cost.. not a bad idea.
Focus has optional 2x 360Wh but unfortunately only with Shimano Steps. The worst mid drive ever. You can imagine that it doesn't have toque sensor..

Brose mid drives have optional range extender with 240Wh. So total could be teoreticaly 890Wh.
https://youtu.be/2gQNAt4qi9o?t=2m12s
Sounds good but Brose is good only on paper (in my opinion it has about 70% of Bosch CX power, despite the fact that declare 90Nm versus 75Nm (Bosch).
Maybe Brose S Drive will be improved.

The one thing which looks not good for me in Bafang M600 middrive is "Light Drive Capacity (DCV/W) - 6V/3W.
All Bosch after 2017 have optional 12V and even 35W power. I have headlights dedicated for 12V and it's the best front light available right now. (900 lumens and legal with law in Eu roads).

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 19 2018 3:48am

Hi Andy, we are planning to develop a internal battery, will check about the Bafang down tube firstly, to check whether it is valuable to use or not.
Animalector wrote:
Jan 18 2018 6:41pm
Frey: what do you plan to do about the internal battery? or are you planning to make it an external battery?

If it is internal, what battery pack / housing are you planning on using? is there a modular case available that will fit inside a frame? If yes, can you offer a link please?

Thanks

Andy Oudyn

Animalector   10 kW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Jan 19 2018 4:16am

So are you saying that bafang will supply the down tube but not an internal battery?.

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Shilah » Jan 19 2018 6:40am

I will buy a e-bike with bafang only if it remains an open system with open battery.
For modern geometry you can see Fantic bike with 14, 16 or 18 cm travel excursion and a large battery not integrated.
http://fantic-bikes.com/it/

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Animalector » Jan 19 2018 7:08am

What do you mean by open system? If you mean that you have the choice to build you own battery, well those 'external' battery packs are no different to an internal battery, they are still custom designed specifically for that frame/brand.

External or internal I don't really care. Internal seems to be the way most manufactures are going. But that's because Shimano and Bosch have done the hard work for them and provide pre-made integrated battery packs

Andy

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Shilah » Jan 19 2018 9:41am

I want the possibility of build or change the battery as I like. Only with bafang I can do it.
Fantic is an example of a modern frame. It has a 29 front wheel and a 27,5 + rear wheel.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 20 2018 1:06am

Hey gang,

I was reading in some other group that a bunch of guys got together and got a large order in the EU to get a big discount.

Anyone interested in saving $500 - $700 on this bike?

Thinking of setting up a go fund me site, think there would be enough interest in the US? Would need roughly 60 - 140 orders, the 140 side would get better discount because of less shipping costs.

I'm thinking, $3k to your door.

DDF...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Keithonline » Jan 22 2018 6:04am

What port of entry would that be? Who would handle breaking up the order and shipping to your door?

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 22 2018 11:38pm

Interesting info.
Can you tell what's the advantage with a 29" front wheel + 27.5+ rear wheel? and what's the tire size to match for front and rear wheel?
And what travel to fit for front 29" and rear 27.5+ ?
Shilah wrote:
Jan 19 2018 9:41am
I want the possibility of build or change the battery as I like. Only with bafang I can do it.
Fantic is an example of a modern frame. It has a 29 front wheel and a 27,5 + rear wheel.

Shilah   100 µW

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Re: FREY eMTB with Bafang m600 is developing with your ideas!

Post by Shilah » Jan 23 2018 3:13pm

In this configuration the bike is faster in downhill.
They use a rear 27,5+ with 2.80" and a front 29 with 2.40".
Rear 27,5+ is good for climbing.
14,16 and 18 cm of travel suspension for three different kind of e-bike with different use.
You can try with the Ultra bafang model.

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