My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 06 2018 2:08am

Yes, that's what it's supposed to do. Personally, I do not think it is necessary. I have had many ebikes (GNG, BBSHD, Cyclone 3000, and now this Ultra), and I've never had any problems with the gears. It will only interfere with my riding. I've read about people having problems with it as well.

However, I understand some people like it, so maybe just offer it as an option.
FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 06 2018 12:03am
1. About gear sensor, we just tested power cut off when shifting gears. it seems mainly protect the cassette more durable, no more other function?...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 06 2018 2:22am

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 06 2018 12:03am
1. About gear sensor, we just tested power cut off when shifting gears. it seems mainly protect the cassette more durable, no more other function?
IMG_20180106_140940.jpg
2. Rear disc in 203mm, we will check the possibility in new batch frame.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05 2018 4:11pm
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05 2018 3:32pm
But I suggest to request Frey to include a Derailleur Gear Sensors in order not to smash the cog cassette and break the chain when shifting.
Don't they include it already ? I thought they did as the Bafang Ultra includes it...
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05 2018 3:32pm
Another thing F/R brake disc should have 203mm disc. I understand Frey have front 203mm but Rear only 180mm.
Totally agree, would love to hear what Frey could do about that.
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05 2018 3:32pm
If you request Frey to upgrade from your current set to EX1, it should be lower than US$250.
Yeah it's quite steeply priced still... and 3 speeds less
It protects the Chain and Cassette gear from smashing when shifting. It will extends the life for both of them

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 06 2018 2:36am

It seems like a good idea, but my main issue with it is cost. When it comes time to replace the cassette, you're looking at paying over $300 for a new one.

You'll also lose the close-ratio gear spacing, if that's important to you. I like having more speeds to choose from, especially for when I'm pedaling.

Usually on a typical cassette, the smallest cogs wear out first, and those are individually replaceable for a few dollars each.

Regular cassettes are serving me well, so I have no reason to switch, but for those that are having issues, it might be something to look into along with the Rohloff.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05 2018 3:08pm
...Btw what do you guys think about Sram's new EX1 groupset ? Worth it ? Seems pricy, not sure about durability improvement...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 06 2018 2:46am

EX1 Cog for the smallest gear can be individually replace.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 06 2018 2:46am

Is the M600 Bafang's lightest torque sensing drive with a throttle? Honestly, I just want something like a Levo Turbo or Full E but with a throttle.

I would prefer a 52V (14s4p) battery made with Samsung 30Q cells.

If they switch to the FSR rear suspension, maybe they can make the chainstay length shorter as well, although I wonder if a longer chainstay will help me climb steeper hills =)

Isn't the case made out of aluminum already? The Ultra's probably so heavy because of how big the gears are and how much copper mass is in the motor.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05 2018 3:08pm
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05 2018 11:43am
Two of the heaviest component of bike is the Battery and the Bafang Motor.
1. Battery, unless you want less wattage equal less battery cell. Weight can be reduce.
That's why I prefer the 48V 17.5Ah battery, 840Wh is plenty and it's better integrated in the frame :)
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05 2018 11:43am
2. Motor: Casing of the motor is pretty heavy, Frey can request Bafang to look into another material.
I agree, Bafang motor enclosures are built like tanks. Much weight can be shaved off here...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by starky_boi » Jan 06 2018 9:59am

....
Last edited by starky_boi on Sep 25 2019 3:24pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 06 2018 10:28am

I think a few manufacture had feedback to Bafang on the weight of the enclosures of the motor. Hope they will listen and find durable and lighter material. Yes I hope of the newer battery technology that could feed on the current tube and provide more AH. My experience with EX1 is pretty good, 800 miles without any chip on the cog. As ebike usage 7 to 8 cog is more than enough. Ex1 uses equivalent to 10 speed chain. But I really hope the price drops to make it more affordable However only high end Ebike using it. Although my friend in his 70's love to ride on PAS0, but I still find it a bit heavy, I will normally use PAS1. With PAS1, the bike will feel very light. Personally I won't fork out more money on IGH which increases the bike weight and that defeats the whole purpose of reducing bike weight and it cost much more than EX1 system. My current Chain Ring is also 44T. It is perfect for speed

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 07 2018 3:57am

I've only briefly used it without assistance, but I tried using a 38T chainring going to a 42T in the cassette on one of my other ebikes, and it was too much work. I had a malfunction that forced me to pedal that day. I have to admit though that I am out of shape.

But regarding your question about changing the chainring, I would see how the stock 44T feels first because it seems like a great all-purpose tooth count (with a slight emphasis on speed). I had a 42T on my BBSHD, and I found that it was great for a majority of the terrain I encountered (my largest rear cog had 50T though). I tried a 30T as well, but I liked the 42T more. The 30T gave up too much top end. I've since moved that drive to my road bike, so I changed it to the stock 46T chainring, which is great for that use. If I were to change the one on the Frey, I'd try the smallest chainring that would fit first, maybe a 38T, but I'll have a better idea once I get to ride it more. It's too cold for recreational riding right now =)
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 06 2018 9:59am
...Robocam, have you tried pedaling without assistance ? Does it feel too heavy ? Do you think it would be beneficial to change the 44T chainring for a 40T ?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 07 2018 10:26am

Robocam, I was wondering about the front chain ring as I don't care much for speed as I do off-road technical climbing. Right now I run a 34 tooth front on my BBSHD from Luna Cycle and seems to work really well for technical climbing.
I have purchased a 38 tooth front ring that I want to try but still am awaiting shipping on my bike.
Here's to hoping I get the new upgrades Frey Bikes is talking about!
robocam wrote:
Jan 07 2018 3:57am
I've only briefly used it without assistance, but I tried using a 38T chainring going to a 42T in the cassette on one of my other ebikes, and it was too much work. I had a malfunction that forced me to pedal that day. I have to admit though that I am out of shape.

But regarding your question about changing the chainring, I would see how the stock 44T feels first because it seems like a great all-purpose tooth count (with a slight emphasis on speed). I had a 42T on my BBSHD, and I found that it was great for a majority of the terrain I encountered (my largest rear cog had 50T though). I tried a 30T as well, but I liked the 42T more. The 30T gave up too much top end. I've since moved that drive to my road bike, so I changed it to the stock 46T chainring, which is great for that use. If I were to change the one on the Frey, I'd try the smallest chainring that would fit first, maybe a 38T, but I'll have a better idea once I get to ride it more. It's too cold for recreational riding right now =)
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 06 2018 9:59am
...Robocam, have you tried pedaling without assistance ? Does it feel too heavy ? Do you think it would be beneficial to change the 44T chainring for a 40T ?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by e-eagle » Jan 10 2018 9:26am

gidooo wrote:
Oct 14 2017 11:48am
Nice bike, i'm looking for something similar, frame only but shorter chainstay and x large. Could you share the price for the bike and shipping.
Hi!

I am looking for a frame like you, for Bafang Ultra! But it looks like Frey is the only alternative?
I now have the Bafang BBSHD on a Mondraker Dune but motor is to low....

My dream is something like the https://www.haibike.com/en/INT/bikes/61 ... wnhll-10-0. but with the Bafang ultra with 52 volts battery...

Did you find any alternative to the Frey Frame?
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by scrambler » Jan 10 2018 12:51pm

e-eagle wrote:
Jan 10 2018 9:26am
Did you find any alternative to the Frey Frame?
Bitrix has a bike based on the ultra too.
https://www.biktrix.com/collections/bik ... t-ultra-fs

And M2s, but not as nice components
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/d ... ltra-motor

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Savin » Jan 10 2018 3:05pm

I have ordered this frame for the G510 Bafang motor, it is designed for 27 in and they can also build the frame with enclosed battery compartment.
1 Frame .jpg
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Drop Dead Fred   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 10 2018 3:15pm

scrambler wrote:
Jan 10 2018 12:51pm
e-eagle wrote:
Jan 10 2018 9:26am
Did you find any alternative to the Frey Frame?
Bitrix has a bike based on the ultra too.
https://www.biktrix.com/collections/bik ... t-ultra-fs

And M2s, but not as nice components
https://shop.m2sbikes.com/collections/d ... ltra-motor
e-eagle wrote:
Jan 10 2018 9:26am
gidooo wrote:
Oct 14 2017 11:48am
Nice bike, i'm looking for something similar, frame only but shorter chainstay and x large. Could you share the price for the bike and shipping.
Hi!

I am looking for a frame like you, for Bafang Ultra! But it looks like Frey is the only alternative?
I now have the Bafang BBSHD on a Mondraker Dune but motor is to low....

My dream is something like the https://www.haibike.com/en/INT/bikes/61 ... wnhll-10-0. but with the Bafang ultra with 52 volts battery...

Did you find any alternative to the Frey Frame?
If you're looking for something like that design then you will have to wait for Frey Bikes or someone to start building the M600. Although the M600 will not be as powerful as the AM1000.

There is a frame builder out there, but they will only sell 50 frames minimum. I tried... Picture below

The Bitrix is a close design but I don't think as well equipped as the AM1000. Although by the looks the pivot appears to be real close to Giants Anthem!

M2s bikes while seeming similar leave a bit to be desired as they are using old technology with quick release fronts and rear wheels and don't have BOOST spacing. Hence no Plus tires! If you don't ride off road then they would probably work for you.

Plus you can get the AM1000 cheaper than you can build with comparable parts as I priced it out building vs purchasing. The only thing I'm going to change are the wheels as I prefer Stan's Sentry MK3 wheels for tubeless. Too much primary research on crashing to not have a good set of tubeless wheels, cause when you burp at high speed cornering you go down and it hurts.

Pound for pound I have been looking for an off road ebike for over a year with out dropping $6500+ on a Turbo Levo and the Frey bike really has a great price point for what you get. Plus with the 2018 upgrades to the frame it should be a nice improvement.

Shipping is high but unless you are purchasing, I think it is at least 60 bikes for a shipping container, you have to pay the piper.

Added a picture of my BBSHD Transition Bandit and understand your statement that the motor is too low! I hit mine all the time on stumps and stuff! In case you are wondering I use the Luna Mighty Mini 52v in a tool bag inside the triangle and get around 20 miles PAS. Plus that is a 36 tooth front ring from Luna for climbing 10 - 12% single tracks. Don't care about 30mph, care about getting to the top of the mountain without stopping. :)
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 10 2018 7:59pm

e-eagle wrote:
Jan 10 2018 9:26am
gidooo wrote:
Oct 14 2017 11:48am
Nice bike, i'm looking for something similar, frame only but shorter chainstay and x large. Could you share the price for the bike and shipping.
Hi!

I am looking for a frame like you, for Bafang Ultra! But it looks like Frey is the only alternative?
I now have the Bafang BBSHD on a Mondraker Dune but motor is to low....

My dream is something like the https://www.haibike.com/en/INT/bikes/61 ... wnhll-10-0. but with the Bafang ultra with 52 volts battery...

Did you find any alternative to the Frey Frame?
e-Eagle,

If you want to build a frameset I found the frame I posted earlier on Aliexpress, kind of pricey but if you want a nice frame it looks pretty solid.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MTB-E-B ... a6dc&tpp=1

Note: The AM1000 is a much better buy...
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 11 2018 12:37am

Savin wrote:
Jan 10 2018 3:05pm
I have ordered this frame for the G510 Bafang motor, it is designed for 27 in and they can also build the frame with enclosed battery compartment.
1 Frame .jpg
Savin,

What about a carbon fiber frame with motor, $1200? Tripped across this one today on AliExpress. Battery not included but can get it with a motor for looks like about $1300 including shipping.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NE ... 42406.html
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 11 2018 3:09am

As I known, this carbon frame match for Bafang Max Motor 250W/350W.
Drop Dead Fred wrote:
Jan 11 2018 12:37am
Savin wrote:
Jan 10 2018 3:05pm
I have ordered this frame for the G510 Bafang motor, it is designed for 27 in and they can also build the frame with enclosed battery compartment.
1 Frame .jpg
Savin,

What about a carbon fiber frame with motor, $1200? Tripped across this one today on AliExpress. Battery not included but can get it with a motor for looks like about $1300 including shipping.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NE ... 42406.html

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Savin » Jan 11 2018 3:17am

I did not want to start with Carbon fiber for first one but I love that frame, but it will not fit the G510 motor, I want the 1000watt. My next one will be carbon.

Thanks for showing me this Drop Dead Fred

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 11 2018 12:04pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 11 2018 3:09am
As I known, this carbon frame match for Bafang Max Motor 250W/350W.
Drop Dead Fred wrote:
Jan 11 2018 12:37am
Savin wrote:
Jan 10 2018 3:05pm
I have ordered this frame for the G510 Bafang motor, it is designed for 27 in and they can also build the frame with enclosed battery compartment.
1 Frame .jpg
Savin,

What about a carbon fiber frame with motor, $1200? Tripped across this one today on AliExpress. Battery not included but can get it with a motor for looks like about $1300 including shipping.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NE ... 42406.html
Yes I did know that this was for the 250/350 watt motor. I only showed this frame with motor more for a reference.

I been a bike builder for about 15 years and have to say that in researching building my own eMtn Bike the AM1000 is best price point for what I want available for the items I want in a nice build and I was very surprised by that. The only things I plan on changing on the AM1000 will be the wheels and the seat. Seats are personal, as far as wheels I just prefer Stan's No Tubes Sentry MK3 for wheels as I like tubeless and Stan's has performed wonderfully for me and my style of riding. Because when you are downhilling and a wheel burps you go down hard... Stan's don't burp!

Here are the main points of the AM1000 that make it so appealing:
1. 160mm travel, I like lots of travel, as long as it flows well.
2. Boost spacing, again I wish to ride 27.5+ 2.8 - 3.0 tires and you can't do that without boost spacing. I've tried it, rubs a lot...
3. 12 x 148mm through axle, because you can't push that much weight and be stable with QR axles!
4. MMG510.1000 motor, while 350w - 500w are fine for most people as I get older it never hurts to have more umph if needed.
5. 48V/21Ah battery, that's huge and like a $750.00 battery on the open market! (Can't wait to see what kind of mileage\time I can get on it.)
6. Able to upgrade to a Lyrk fork for a good price
7. Magura MT5 brakes, a nice brake set with 203mm front rotor to stop the beast!

To break it down, there is only one 160mm travel eMtn Bike frame out there for building that I have been able to find and it's $2700.00 delivered. It's also not boost spacing so 27.5 x 2.5 is the max on tires. Moving on you need a fork and that will cost you $600 - $1000. Now Motor, that's $600.00, battery $750.00, brakes $350.00, wheels $300 - $600, cassette and derailleur set $300 - $400. See where I'm going with this? Not including the frame you already have an easy $3000.00 in parts, (yes this is a quality build, you do want something that works correctly right?) To top that off you still have not purchased tires (nice tubeless can cost $90 a tire, mine did), handle bar, grips, seat, seat tube (oh you want a dropper add $300). Almost forgot, cable set, headset, stem, oh and pedals.

Now once you add all that together not counting my time to build it you are in the neighborhood of $6000.00, go buy an AM1000 it is way cheaper.

If you take the frame in question above with 350w motor that is going to cost $1300.00 delivered, so you are at only $4300 - $4500... AM1000 still better buy and G510.1000 motor.

The only way you can do this cheaper is that you already have all the parts and if so then you already spent the money. just a little at a time so as not let your wife know how much you spent totally... yes I do it too! :)

Ok kids, keep in mind that the bike I describe above is meant to compete\ride with the HaiBikes, Turbo Levos and Focus bikes. This is not a bike path cruiser as I'm not a bike path rider. While I'm in my 60s I still like attacking 10 - 12% uphill technical grades and bombing downhill! The AM1000 should handle that just fine for a great price!

Yes you can build something cheaper, and that is what you will have a cheaper bike.

Before you start hating remember that this is my opinion only on what 'I' want in a bike that I can build to compete with the big boy bikes off road. AM1000 hands down best buy...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Drop Dead Fred » Jan 11 2018 12:07pm

Savin wrote:
Jan 11 2018 3:17am
I did not want to start with Carbon fiber for first one but I love that frame, but it will not fit the G510 motor, I want the 1000watt. My next one will be carbon.

Thanks for showing me this Drop Dead Fred
Savin,

I did talk with the company a couple of months ago and the rep related that spring 2018 they would have a G510 version... just fyi. And you are right it is a very pretty frame!

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by starky_boi » Jan 13 2018 3:28am

....
Last edited by starky_boi on Sep 25 2019 3:24pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by sgillf » Jan 13 2018 3:45am

I've been waiting for the fat bike version!

Here's my wish list :
-Tires: Vee Bulldozer Ebike tire (4.25) with tubeless ready rims
-Old Man Mountain front and Rear Racks http://www.oldmanmountain.com/ABUS.html
-Any solutions for security built in? (see gps battery solution)
-Fenders
-Dark Green Camouflage finish
-Built-in lighting (Ideally directly wired to battery so it doesn’t take up the USB port)

The fat bike would also double as a hunting bike

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by sgillf » Jan 15 2018 1:08pm

One more thing to add to the list for me would be the more subtle display bafang offers:

DP E12.UART
Image

I find the big color display nice, but out of place...

EDIT:
On further review, I like the following controllers even better - and all of them have bluetooth:
Image
Image

all can be seen here: http://www.bafang-e.com/en/components/hmi.html

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by nataS@phnet.fi » Jan 17 2018 5:18am

Couldn't agree more! I used to hide the screen on my bike in battery case on the bike that got stolen, smaller size is always plus for me. More stealth.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tom L » Jan 17 2018 6:49am

I like the smaller displays too.

Hey robocam, any updates on the ride experience now that you’ve had it for a few weeks?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 17 2018 4:01pm

I wish I had more to tell you, but it's been too cold for me to ride. I'll try to post more videos as soon as I get a chance to.
Tom L wrote:
Jan 17 2018 6:49am
...Hey robocam, any updates on the ride experience now that you’ve had it for a few weeks?

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