My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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joq3   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by joq3 » Apr 02 2019 2:09pm

Just got back from testing the bike. Was able to solve the throttle cut off issue too. This means the throttle works very very smoothly, as I was able to program the right voltage.
However the torque sensoring does not work as I believe it should. It feels pretty bad to ride. Say I got an uphill road and I pedal at the same rate and use the same force on the pedals, I still hear the motor going off and on, I can see the power meter moving also, not ever being steady.

Say I ride on a flat surface and accellerate, pedaling harder and harder, it will not help me more and more, it will still be off and on with the power.

Is this a torque sensor issue or do I have bad settings? Can anyone come with tips for me to try out?

I did the settings from the programming video on youtube, but the only thing he really changes are Spd0 which is the start of the torque sensoring, from stand still it feels like it should. And this change affect that. But how do I solve the other issues?

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Apr 03 2019 10:13am

What value does it say in the program your torque sensor is giving out when you apply force by hand or using a second person?

joq3   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by joq3 » Apr 03 2019 10:38am

Hardcore wrote:
Apr 03 2019 10:13am
What value does it say in the program your torque sensor is giving out when you apply force by hand or using a second person?
I am not sure I understand? Can you keep the bike connected via programming cable and read out torque in real time? How hard should I pedal by hand and how do I do this?

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Apr 03 2019 1:07pm

Connect it to your laptop and there's an option in the software to check the readout. The motor should not respond when this mode is activated.

luna5k   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by luna5k » Apr 04 2019 6:27am

I've been following this thread for some time and I would very much like one of these Frey bikes. However based on the prices on Alibaba they are out of my price range. I'm in the UK so I would also have to pay import duty and VAT at 20%.

Does anyone here know if there is any flexibility on the prices on Alibaba?

Also are cheaper, slower methods of transport possible?

Finally, I've noticed a 2019 version of the AM1000 which has a slightly different frame. Has anyone here got one of those?

Thanks

edkin   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by edkin » Apr 04 2019 6:41am

I can sympathise. I've also been following this thread with and my tongue hanging out. ?Unfortunately I'm in south Africa and my weak currency means the price and shipping is killing me.
I've been waiting for the M600 to be unveiled which might have a smaller (500W) motor and hence not so expensive (Hopefully).

luna5k   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by luna5k » Apr 04 2019 6:46am

There's actually an M600 based bike on Frey's Alibaba store (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 78878.html) but it isn't actually any cheaper than the AM1000!

Phife   10 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Phife » Apr 04 2019 10:21am

I too was hesitant about the price of the bike, especially with shipping and import duties.

I decided to get a frame, motor, and battery and then build the rest of the bike locally. Was a little cheaper this way, no import duties since it was not a complete bike and I get to pick the components I want.

I didn't get the Frey frame as it was relatively expensive, I got another one from Aliexpress. You can see the details in my build log here.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 28&t=99177
2008 Full Suspension Giant Reign 2 with 48v 750W BBS02. Click Here
2014 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR with Cyclone 3000w Mid Drive, 52V 20ah Backpack Battery. Click Here
2019 Hybrid SUV 27.5 with Bafang Ultra Motor, 48v 14ah Battery. Click Here

luna5k   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by luna5k » Apr 04 2019 3:21pm

That's a good idea, thanks - I'll be following your build.

edkin   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by edkin » Apr 05 2019 12:40am

Good idea. I might go that way as well. Following your build with great interest

wr75   10 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by wr75 » Apr 06 2019 5:47am

joq3 wrote:
Apr 02 2019 2:09pm
Just got back from testing the bike. Was able to solve the throttle cut off issue too. This means the throttle works very very smoothly, as I was able to program the right voltage.
However the torque sensoring does not work as I believe it should. It feels pretty bad to ride. Say I got an uphill road and I pedal at the same rate and use the same force on the pedals, I still hear the motor going off and on, I can see the power meter moving also, not ever being steady.

Say I ride on a flat surface and accellerate, pedaling harder and harder, it will not help me more and more, it will still be off and on with the power.

Is this a torque sensor issue or do I have bad settings? Can anyone come with tips for me to try out?

I did the settings from the programming video on youtube, but the only thing he really changes are Spd0 which is the start of the torque sensoring, from stand still it feels like it should. And this change affect that. But how do I solve the other issues?
I'm having the same problem as you, but not always, it's very inconsistent performance from bike ride to bike ride. When it is acting like an asshole it feels like the motor is stingy and won't assist me when I expect it to, only giving me short bursts of assistance no matter how hard or fast I pedal. I've tried all kinds of different programming settings, and I know what they all mean by now, and when the bike is performing normally it is a lot of fun, but it's not reliable because I never know if it's going to be in a bad mood the next time I ride it. It's been a volatile relationship. I'm wondering if it's the battery or something else. Anyone have any ideas?
Last edited by wr75 on Apr 06 2019 2:57pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Apr 06 2019 7:22am

Something is giving the motor bad information, so I would do the following checks:
Start with working settings, for instance, default or from other people.
Does it give problems on throttle only? If no, then it is more likely to be a sensor.
Check the speed sensor if the magnet on the spokes is well aligned to the sensor? Try misaligning and see what it does after adjustments.
Try connecting and disconnecting as many parts as possible to eliminate them as possibly broken. Brakes, throttle, lights, etc
Test if the torque reading via the programming is giving reasonable values. You can put a load on your cranks and see the reading while you touch around the bike to find maybe broken cables or connections.
Tie down the battery during bumpy rides using, for instance, velcro to secure it in place so it doesn't shake in the frame.
When you test one thing, keep all other variables constant. Lastly, if it is not any of these external things, it might be a connector issue inside the motor to open it on the controller side then disconnect everything and reconnect and assemble.

wr75   10 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by wr75 » Apr 07 2019 2:06am

Hardcore wrote:
Apr 06 2019 7:22am
Something is giving the motor bad information, so I would do the following checks:
Start with working settings, for instance, default or from other people.
Does it give problems on throttle only? If no, then it is more likely to be a sensor.
Check the speed sensor if the magnet on the spokes is well aligned to the sensor? Try misaligning and see what it does after adjustments.
Try connecting and disconnecting as many parts as possible to eliminate them as possibly broken. Brakes, throttle, lights, etc
Test if the torque reading via the programming is giving reasonable values. You can put a load on your cranks and see the reading while you touch around the bike to find maybe broken cables or connections.
Tie down the battery during bumpy rides using, for instance, velcro to secure it in place so it doesn't shake in the frame.
When you test one thing, keep all other variables constant. Lastly, if it is not any of these external things, it might be a connector issue inside the motor to open it on the controller side then disconnect everything and reconnect and assemble.
Today the bike rode better than ever, smooth as butter and it was a delight to ride all over town without a hiccup. It's almost as if the bike knew that I was talking shit about it on the internet and was trolling me. :P Your suggestions are a good idea and I am eager to test them out as soon as the bike acts like a jerk again, which may be tomorrow, who knows. I hope to solve this riddle because one day I'm really happy and another day I'm bummed out. I'll post an update if I figure it out.

joq3   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by joq3 » Apr 08 2019 12:44am

Hardcore wrote:
Apr 06 2019 7:22am
Something is giving the motor bad information, so I would do the following checks:
Start with working settings, for instance, default or from other people.
Does it give problems on throttle only? If no, then it is more likely to be a sensor.
Check the speed sensor if the magnet on the spokes is well aligned to the sensor? Try misaligning and see what it does after adjustments.
Try connecting and disconnecting as many parts as possible to eliminate them as possibly broken. Brakes, throttle, lights, etc
Test if the torque reading via the programming is giving reasonable values. You can put a load on your cranks and see the reading while you touch around the bike to find maybe broken cables or connections.
Tie down the battery during bumpy rides using, for instance, velcro to secure it in place so it doesn't shake in the frame.
When you test one thing, keep all other variables constant. Lastly, if it is not any of these external things, it might be a connector issue inside the motor to open it on the controller side then disconnect everything and reconnect and assemble.
Great advice, I will do this today! I am using settings that other people have confirmed are good, like the settings in the video about programming. And I am going to connect it to my PC to check the torque values. What am I looking for here? What are reasonable values? And should I keep it connected and try pedaling at a steady rate? And which assist setting should I use?
I have confirmed that my throttle is working absolutely perfectly, so there is no issue with the power output from the engine, and the gear sensor works correctly (stops throttle for a brief second to shift). So I feel like it is some sensor issue. I also have aligned the speed sensor perfectly and it reads out good.

What wheel size should I set in the settings? I have 27,5" wheels (but there is no setting for this). And the tyres are 27,5" x 3,0" so maybe I should use 28" in the settings?

Thank you!

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Apr 08 2019 3:46am

"And I am going to connect it to my PC to check the torque values. What am I looking for here? What are reasonable values? And should I keep it connected and try pedaling at a steady rate? And which assist setting should I use?"

no need for pedalling. You can simply apply force by hand. See if under a steady load it gives a steady number.

joq3   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by joq3 » Apr 08 2019 1:23pm

Hardcore wrote:
Apr 08 2019 3:46am
"And I am going to connect it to my PC to check the torque values. What am I looking for here? What are reasonable values? And should I keep it connected and try pedaling at a steady rate? And which assist setting should I use?"

no need for pedalling. You can simply apply force by hand. See if under a steady load it gives a steady number.
I got it connected, placed the bike on a stand and connected the PC and did a Continous Get while pedaling with my hand at a steady rate. Here you can see the result. In the first video I try to pedal at a steady rate: https://streamable.com/u19a2
And in this video I try to accellerate (pedal faster and faster): https://streamable.com/vxzdc
I don't really know what values to watch, but it seems to give a pretty steady number?
What does SpeedSigLevel mean? It varies between 0 and 1 all the time.

Hope you can look at the two videos and tell me what you think. Thank you!

Map Paddy   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Map Paddy » Apr 11 2019 9:44pm

Does anyone know a suitable replacement for the crank arms I got pedal strike now I got a bad case of wobbly crank going on .I k ot its ISIS spline but if anyone has fitted one that works well or a link to somthing that works please local shop no help at all

Map Paddy   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Map Paddy » Apr 12 2019 12:06am

18650 wrote:
Mar 22 2018 2:19am
Still silence about riding experience (power, range)?
I got the ht1000 and love it got 52v battery and mt5e brakes 160mm yari use it on trails in north Vancouver the bike can climb anything you can physically stay on the bike up its planted thru the rough stuff capable of taking a drop personally I love the bike and am planning to get the am1000 so can bring the wife along ,I rode everything blue ,black Dh trails some of them in both directions can climb steps (with right technique I got pedal strike) bike is a bit heavy but barely notice even heavy snow uphill .I find I tire before the beast breaks a sweat 2hrs of aggressive trail riding in eco goes for miles in saying that there not bikes to cycle with no juice

joq3   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by joq3 » Apr 12 2019 4:26am

Got an update on my torque issue.
Sent down the motor to Bafang in Netherlands and they found out that the torque sensor was broken. And they will send a new motor as a replacement.

Thank you for the help when looking for the issue. I hope to experience the bike as it should be!

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Apr 13 2019 7:21am

Just about to pull the pin on this bad boy! I read this whole topic top to bottom and tried to pull all the best bits in to my spec. The only thing not there is the improved thumb throttle but Grace @Frey said they can only supply the standard one. She's been really responsive to all my questions too!

I'm paying extra for the gear sensor, for the motor. Is the gear sensor necessary do you think and/or should it really be standard?

I'm also going for an extra battery. What are the chances of improving tech meaning that a higher ah 52V will come out soon and is there a risk that if I only bought one and something went wrong with it wouldn't be able to get another, or would have to get one made bespoke? That could be a whole world of pain. I've actually gone for the 48V 21ah rather than the 52V 17.5ah owing to the greater energy density (should get better range but perhaps lesser top speed and ultimate performance, right?).

I'm based in the United Kingdom by the way - not sure how many others in the UK have bought a Frey AM1000 yet - if local to me I wouldn't mind having a look. I'm in Sussex near Gatwick.

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SunnyDay1   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by SunnyDay1 » Apr 13 2019 8:00am

I think the gear sensor is a must have for the high torque motor, the extra cost is minimal.

Razerr   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Razerr » Apr 13 2019 8:42am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Apr 13 2019 7:21am
Just about to pull the pin on this bad boy! I read this whole topic top to bottom and tried to pull all the best bits in to my spec. The only thing not there is the improved thumb throttle but Grace @Frey said they can only supply the standard one. She's been really responsive to all my questions too!

I'm paying extra for the gear sensor, for the motor. Is the gear sensor necessary do you think and/or should it really be standard?

I'm also going for an extra battery. What are the chances of improving tech meaning that a higher ah 52V will come out soon and is there a risk that if I only bought one and something went wrong with it wouldn't be able to get another, or would have to get one made bespoke? That could be a whole world of pain. I've actually gone for the 48V 21ah rather than the 52V 17.5ah owing to the greater energy density (should get better range but perhaps lesser top speed and ultimate performance, right?).

I'm based in the United Kingdom by the way - not sure how many others in the UK have bought a Frey AM1000 yet - if local to me I wouldn't mind having a look. I'm in Sussex near Gatwick.

Image
Nice list!
I am also thinking about to buy one and read the topic top - bottom.
How do you choose the size? How tall are you? Why no SRAM ex1 on the list? I read a lot of good things about it.

I live in EU and the only thing that is holding me back is customs...
Last edited by Razerr on May 03 2019 3:01pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Apr 13 2019 9:07am

I gave my height & weight to Grace and she suggested the Medium. I then looked up all the geometries for the medium and checked it all against my existing Yoeleo M91 Hard tail MTB which fits me like a glove. Pretty much exact same apart from the chain stays that are a bit longer. Anything bigger than the Medium looks seriously huge! I’m 5’ 8”.

I think ex1 is quite a lot more and Shimano M8000 is very good kit already.

I bought my Yoeleo MTB direct from China (frame and wheels only and I made the bike up) and had a very good experience. I’d also had another set of deep section rims off them for my road bike and it was very nice quality.

I do a lot of cycling and love anything that’s got wheels on it!
Last edited by Sinbord1981 on Apr 13 2019 9:14am, edited 1 time in total.

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Apr 13 2019 9:12am

Also with the SRAM ex1 you’ve only got 8 ratios so you loose the close ratio-ness of the drive (XT is 11 speed). Range is the same but each gear change is a more significant jump in gear ratio. For me as big cyclist already I like to cycle with a fairly high optimal cadence (90-ish). Probably less of a factor with a motor but hey ho!

Razerr   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Razerr » Apr 16 2019 2:12am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Apr 13 2019 7:21am
Just about to pull the pin on this bad boy!
Any update you got for us? Did you order?

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