My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Aug 05 2019 7:29am

Hi,

Just go through your post and the process of your communication with Grace generally.
You only buy the frame from us, and we always told customer who would like to buy frame only that we will not be responsible for the bike and related after-sale service and there are too much things out of our control and perform. only customer who confirm the situation and can make sure it is no problem to make up bike self, then we can accept the frame order.
And we offer a chain keeper by free to you!

All these describtion and commends only from your side. So Just tell some information from our side for others' reference and then we will not response on this case.

After you got the frame, you told the frame is defective and you can't make up the bike, after several communication, you still told the frame is unusable to you, we do not have good solution, ask you to return the frame and all parts to us. we accept return and we can also afford the shipping cost. But you do not accept this suggestion.

you asked for another rear frame from us even you are willing to pay for it. you told if we agree to do this, you will agree to accept as-is with no further claims regardless and you will also make sure to indicate on social media that we have then provided good service. we thought because the frame should match front and rear end, if only rear frame, it may not match well with your front frame and it is possible that you still can't make up the bike in your side. so we have never accepted your solution. and we give our solution: you pay for half cost for the rear frame, we give you a complete frame and you also afford the shipping cost and we afford part of shipping cost. you do not accept the cost.

Later you told the front frame is also defetive, so you need another complete frame from us.
and you told us to consider our reputation - we have more to gain from providing great customer service and fixing quality issues than worrying about the cost of this one small order.
Following we conclude another solution: we give another complete frame for you, but require you to pay the shipping cost about 370USD for the frame set. We concluded at that time and you confirm Grey color for another frame.

Following, you ask some other parts from us include some motor and battery parts, if we can't offer the parts, you still work out the bike. then it stopped again. (This is what we memtioned in our annoucement that customer will meet some difficulty when they build up bike by themselves if all the required parts are not completely available in your side or even you do not realize what will need in your side, it is complicated.) if we support in this kind of way, it is also very difficulty to us if there are many unexpected cases we will meet.

So still have not concluded solution till then. I think the most easy way is only the return the frame and the parts you purchased from us no matter what work you have done on the frame.

About you mentioned adapter(To be honest,I even don't know what it is, it seems there is no this parts name in motor set)

It seems build the bikes by parts is really much more complicated than complete bike from us.

That's why, we issue the annoucement earlier. above info just for all your reference.
cscscs wrote:
Aug 04 2019 7:04pm
Just completed a conversion of my FLX Blade (hardtail) - swapped all the parts (G510 motor, of course, reention battery, Magura mt5e brakes, Pike RCT 160mm front end, EX1 drive train.
The good: I am very pleased with the handling - of course I expected improved comfort with the addition of rear suspension, but I wasn't sure what to expect in handling since the Frey frame has slightly higher CG and longer chain-stays, but I am happy to say that it handles great. I only ride singletrack, typical trails in my area are tight with lots of undulating ups and downs and lots of roots and the bike handles it all better than before and no sacrifice in stability so I am super pleased.
The bad: the frame arrived from Frey with a couple of pretty severe defects. 1) The head tube is out of round with the results that I could not insert the fork steerer. I thought this was a show stopper with no work-around. but I wanted to assemble as much as possible to see if there were any other issues I had not considered. For this revealed that the stock chainring spider from the Blade would not clear the heads of the fasteners for the new Bafang chain guard. The Blade has non-boost spacing whereas Frey's AM1000 is boost so in theory I need the chainring to be (148-142)/2 = 3mm more offset. Frey refuses to supply the adapter as they say it is part of the motor assembly and they don't want to break the kit and also they cannot get an extra adapter from Bafang.

2) The second defect was the drive side rear dropout is out of alignment with the results that the rear axle will not thread into the derailleur hanger. The only way I could make this work is to loosed the hanger, thread and tighten the axle and then retighten the hanger screws. I attached a pic showing the hanger at an angle to the dropout with the axle installed (that is with no wheel - with the wheel on, the dropout is force into near alignment). Also attached two pics showing the head tube diameter measurements (1.54 min, 1.59 max)

Frey refused to admit these were defects - my contact has been Grace Wang - and Grace's response was "It is not a problem, you can chamfer the inner and outer sides of rear axle right and left holes.Then it can be used as normal."

How messed up is that? Finally Frey agreed to provide a replacement frame at a discount (so I would have to pay them more to fix the issue). I did have the option to return everything but not sure who would pay for shipping ($370). But since I had assembled the frame, it looked like returning the frame might not be an option.
Then Grace stopped answering my messages (using the Alibaba message portal) - I could see she was reading my messages and it has been 5 days now that she has been ignoring my messages. I made sure to keep my messages professional and not be insulting, but I guess she just got tired of managing my order and it appears I have been tossed into the "not worth our time" category. Ironically, just after I paid for the original order, she replied thanking my for my trust.

So what is the status of the project now and how did I get it to work?

I put the head tube of the frame into my bench vice and cranked it down as hard as I could (probably around 100nm) until the fork steerer could be inserted. I assumed the steering action would be horrible and that the headset will suffer premature failure. To my surprise, the steering action seems smooth with no noticeable resistance of other anomalies.
Regarding the rear-dropout, it seems to have relaxed over time so that now I am able to thread the rear axle into the mech hanger without having to loosed the hanger first. I did have to purchase a hanger alignment tool and as expected the hanger was about 2.5 cm out of alignment.
So despite those issues, I was able to complete the assembly and test the bike. Give that I was able to work around the defects and given that Frey is offering zero support, I guess I am stuck with this frame.

During the discussion with Frey about getting a replacement frame, Grace made this comment "And this time ,we will take this frame to assemble the entire bike for QA testing. Then we will send it to you." and this confirms my suspicion that they did not perform any QA inspection of the frame they sent me. I ordered a size Large AM1000 v5.0 frame, and according to Frey's ads, the L and XL have an extra gusset where the top tube meets the seat tube, and mine did not have that, so I am not even sure they sent me a v5.0 - maybe it was a surplus v4.x?

To be fair, it seems like they support the sales of complete bikes much better than the treatment I got, and I saw a post by Frey that they will no longer offer to sell frame only, probably directly related to my experience. It's disappointing that I had to suffer for their mistakes and I think one lesson learned is that for something as expensive and complicated as an eMTB, it pays to do business with a local (or at least USA) company who is less likely to ignore me if there is a problem, or at least make sure they have a proven track record of providing good support, and also probably the language and cultural barriers may be a factor.

So in the end, the bike works and at least for now I can live with the work-arounds to the defects. The question now is, will the frame last? I was going to sell my hardtail frame but may hold on to it just in case the Frey frame cracks or develops new problems.

Caveat emptor!

leedavis   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by leedavis » Aug 05 2019 2:01pm

The AM1000 I received in April now has 700 miles. It's been 100% reliable and a lot of fun. Here I am on the trail yesterday... (if it plays at low res change it with the "settings")


Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Aug 05 2019 4:12pm

leedavis wrote:
Aug 05 2019 2:01pm
The AM1000 I received in April now has 700 miles. It's been 100% reliable and a lot of fun. Here I am on the trail yesterday... (if it plays at low res change it with the "settings")

It almost looks like you should be riding in the opposite direction, not afraid of someone coming your way?

User avatar
efMX Trials Electric Freeride   1 MW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by efMX Trials Electric Freeride » Aug 05 2019 4:17pm

that's the best part about ebikes imo, riding UP the downhill sections at similar speeds as down them..
some ride & sk8 videos:
metacafe.com/channels/NATAS666DAMIEN
http://www.youtube.com/natas666damien
i have nothing for sale.. :)

leedavis   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by leedavis » Aug 05 2019 4:40pm

Hardcore wrote:
Aug 05 2019 4:12pm
leedavis wrote:
Aug 05 2019 2:01pm
The AM1000 I received in April now has 700 miles. It's been 100% reliable and a lot of fun. Here I am on the trail yesterday... (if it plays at low res change it with the "settings")
It almost looks like you should be riding in the opposite direction, not afraid of someone coming your way?
It's a two directional trail and I'm riding in the preferred direction to put the least stress on the surface when it's been raining, which we've had a lot of in the southeast. With that said I've had to hit the binders and make way for somebody coming in the opposite direction more than once. It goes with the territory. eMTB doesn't have a great reputation with many MTB riders so I always yield.
Last edited by leedavis on Aug 05 2019 5:39pm, edited 1 time in total.

jeron   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Aug 05 2019 4:44pm

The pre and after sales support has been excellent, i ordered a full bike and a lot of European business's are MUCH worse in after sales. Frey is really responsive and i would not hesitate to buy again.

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Aug 05 2019 5:12pm

I figured, I've had the same experience here but also sometimes when I was the other one coming down while ebikers are going up.
Going up hill is definitely another experience but going up at 20 while another is going down at 30 makes an impact pretty devastating and with all the trees. I just ordered knee pads, full face helmet and other protective gear as I've had too many near misses that I think I'm going to go faster than my guardian angel can follow.

WIth regards to the frame ordering, I have a frame sitting in the box here on which I'll do the same measurements to check but yeah after-sales service for fully build bikes has been nothing but excellent from Frey. Buying frames from China is always an iffy situation, I've seen atleast two other posts on this forum about the things that go wrong from other vendors.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Aug 07 2019 12:52pm

Sinbord1981 wrote: I’ve been playing with the gearing a little bit and increased the size of the chainring (from 40T, to 42T and now 46T) - for me this now puts it in my sweet spot as 60% of the time I am in the middle cog on the rear cassette (optimal chainline) but have the flexibility of the higher and lower ranges if I’m going fast on-road or making steep ascents off-road. It also means the running gear should last me longer. I’ve done 300miles of varied riding on mine without any problems. With that revised gearing it now does 40mph on the flat!
Can you provide a link to the 46T chainring you bought?

Stanleybb50   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Stanleybb50 » Aug 07 2019 1:01pm

Funny that I'm likely gonna be on the lookout for a smaller chainring when mine arrives. :mrgreen:

*Which looks like Monday now... :|

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Aug 07 2019 1:46pm

jeron wrote:
Aug 07 2019 12:52pm
Can you provide a link to the 46T chainring you bought?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 1933208383

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Aug 08 2019 6:30pm

Me out on my Frey AM1000 tonight, hitting some local trails in the UK.

This bike is amazing!


TomAl   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by TomAl » Aug 09 2019 5:55pm

Does anyone have experience on this fatbike?
I like the frame and would like to order if they upgrade some components.

http://leiliebike.com/content/?209.html
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Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Aug 09 2019 7:28pm

On the topic of hitting local trails:

cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Aug 09 2019 9:52pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Aug 05 2019 7:29am
About you mentioned adapter(To be honest,I even don't know what it is, it seems there is no this parts name in motor set)
[/quote]

I've given up trying to negotiate an equitable solution, and Frey will not respond to my inquiries on Alibaba messaging (which I find highly unprofessional), so it's pointless to perpetuate the banter, except I can't ignore the blatant lies in their replies, the above statement being one example. Frey says the "don't even know what {the adapter I mentioned) is. Well here is a snapshot of the lengthy discussion I had with Frey about said adapter....you be the judge:
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cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Aug 09 2019 10:22pm

Also finding something suspicious about the Rockshox Monarch rear shock supplied by Frey - when I entered the serial number into Rockshox's online tuning app, it returned the message that the "serial number entered not found. This could be caused by an inaccurate entry or the number corresponds to a replacement part" I also had a LBS try and they got the same result and could not explain why - they said I should bring it in so they could inspect it to see if it is genuine. Anyone else see this with their Frey-supplied shocks? It may just be that since my order was "special" that they sourced the frame and shock from their bin of seconds?
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cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Aug 09 2019 10:28pm

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Aug 08 2019 6:30pm
Me out on my Frey AM1000 tonight, hitting some local trails in the UK.

This bike is amazing!

Nice! For those who have never ridden an ebike - especially a torque sensing one - it's hard to explain how enjoyable it is.
Your motor is unusually loud - an indication of lack of grease - there are some posts about how Bafang ships with too little grease. I don't know if this affects wear although it will likely need to be serviced sooner. Looks like there is still room on your bars for more stuff - maybe a cup holder or a flagpole ;)

FREYebikes   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Aug 10 2019 2:15am

Hi,

About how to check the shock number, we will check with SRAM on Monday. today Saturday is not available.

Regards,
Ivy
cscscs wrote:
Aug 09 2019 10:22pm
Also finding something suspicious about the Rockshox Monarch rear shock supplied by Frey - when I entered the serial number into Rockshox's online tuning app, it returned the message that the "serial number entered not found. This could be caused by an inaccurate entry or the number corresponds to a replacement part" I also had a LBS try and they got the same result and could not explain why - they said I should bring it in so they could inspect it to see if it is genuine. Anyone else see this with their Frey-supplied shocks? It may just be that since my order was "special" that they sourced the frame and shock from their bin of seconds?

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Aug 10 2019 11:08am

cscscs wrote:
Aug 09 2019 10:22pm
Also finding something suspicious about the Rockshox Monarch rear shock supplied by Frey - when I entered the serial number into Rockshox's online tuning app, it returned the message that the "serial number entered not found. This could be caused by an inaccurate entry or the number corresponds to a replacement part" I also had a LBS try and they got the same result and could not explain why - they said I should bring it in so they could inspect it to see if it is genuine. Anyone else see this with their Frey-supplied shocks? It may just be that since my order was "special" that they sourced the frame and shock from their bin of seconds?
Same problem here for the rockshox deluxe rl on a full bike bought directly from frey, https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/specs/08T80856394

while the Lyrik fork had no problem being found.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 10 2019 12:44pm

Hardcore wrote:
Aug 10 2019 11:08am
cscscs wrote:
Aug 09 2019 10:22pm
Also finding something suspicious about the Rockshox Monarch rear shock supplied by Frey - when I entered the serial number into Rockshox's online tuning app, it returned the message that the "serial number entered not found. This could be caused by an inaccurate entry or the number corresponds to a replacement part" I also had a LBS try and they got the same result and could not explain why - they said I should bring it in so they could inspect it to see if it is genuine. Anyone else see this with their Frey-supplied shocks? It may just be that since my order was "special" that they sourced the frame and shock from their bin of seconds?
Same problem here for the rockshox deluxe rl on a full bike bought directly from frey, https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/specs/08T80856394

while the Lyrik fork had no problem being found.
it seems to be for forks only - not for rear shocks. clicking on the ‚i‘ serial number fork location is shown...

Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Aug 10 2019 1:41pm

thanks for clearing that up :)

cscscs   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Aug 10 2019 4:59pm

ditto - thanks for clarifying - I see now on SRAM's website it says the app is only for 2018+ forks - I owe Frey an apology for that one...I guess my "shopping experience" has made me paranoid

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Aug 11 2019 2:20am

cscscs wrote:
Aug 09 2019 10:28pm
Nice! For those who have never ridden an ebike - especially a torque sensing one - it's hard to explain how enjoyable it is.
Your motor is unusually loud - an indication of lack of grease - there are some posts about how Bafang ships with too little grease. I don't know if this affects wear although it will likely need to be serviced sooner. Looks like there is still room on your bars for more stuff - maybe a cup holder or a flagpole ;)
Cheers for the feedback CSCSCS. I normally have none of that stuff on my bars, although the additional weight's obviously not going to make any difference! Obviously I don't normally have the video camera mounted, my Garmin 820 is off my road bike and if I don't need it for navigation I ride with my Garmin 235 watch instead, so that wouldn't be there and I've only just bought that light but was back before it went dark anyway - so again not strictly needed. Agreed though that there's plenty more space to mount more :lol:

Regards the lack of grease, maybe I will crack the motor open soon. This is the second gen GS510 though, so at least it'll have the all steel gears. Have you opened yours and repacked with grease? I have watched the videos and it seems a fair amount of work, possibly needing to drop the motor out the frame to work it on a bench. I've got the crank arm puller but will need to sort out a removal tool for the spider retaining collar. Any recommendation for the spec of grease and did you also replace the gaskets on reassembly? I do plan to crack the motor open myself in a few months to check on wear so will probably wait until then to do it. Do you have a video of yours so I can judge how noisy mine is in comparison? Cheers buddy. It's a shame then not a grease nipple on the block so you can do it without needing to open it all up but I guess it will need a good clean out and degrease before re-packing anyhow.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Aug 11 2019 3:20am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Aug 11 2019 2:20am
Regards the lack of grease, maybe I will crack the motor open soon. This is the second gen GS510 though, so at least it'll have the all steel gears. Have you opened yours and repacked with grease? I have watched the videos and it seems a fair amount of work, possibly needing to drop the motor out the frame to work it on a bench. I've got the crank arm puller but will need to sort out a removal tool for the spider retaining collar. Any recommendation for the spec of grease and did you also replace the gaskets on reassembly? I do plan to crack the motor open myself in a few months to check on wear so will probably wait until then to do it. Do you have a video of yours so I can judge how noisy mine is in comparison? Cheers buddy. It's a shame then not a grease nipple on the block so you can do it without needing to open it all up but I guess it will need a good clean out and degrease before re-packing anyhow.
hi, i have seen you have the 52V battery. motor has higher rpm and is a little louder with fully charged battery instead of using a 48V battery. my setup is a little different:48V battery with 45A current (shunt mod) - but i think my motor is even with the resulting 2000w a little quieter. But hard to say based on just a video.
yes, you have to drop the motor out of the frame to grease it. i would not say regrease because there is not much grease inside :D .

motor disassembly from frame:
1) remove your ISIS cranks.
2) using a chain wipe and a bottom bracket tool (i recommend buying a nut,Hollowtec II 1/2“) you can open your spider nut. clock wise (!)
3) remove the 3 nuts of your 3 screws holding the motor. dont forget the 3 washers.
4) put something under your motor to hold it when screws are loose.
4) now one of the more difficult tasks: knock out the 3 screws evenly. i always use a ratchet extension and a hammer.
5) disconnect cables
6) to put it together again you have to reconnect your cables. Check all functions, use your throttle, motor should turn very,very slow - thats normal without speed sensor . attention: dont squeeze your cables. your motor screws should go through easily (the first 2 cm). take an allen key nut to knock in the 3 screws evenly with a hammer.

motor disassembly: just unscrew the 5 or 6 screws holding the 2 motor parts (motor- and controller-side) together. carefully separate the 2 parts - attention: the 2 parts are still connected by controller cables - just for greasing you dont have to separate the cables. take care of the gasket while separating. you can clean the gasket with alcohol and reuse it. take out the 2 small gears, holding both gears at the same time and lift them gently - it is easier to grease then. clean all sealing surfaces with alcohol.
grease it like hell (!). then put it all together again - there are 2 dowel pins so you cant do it wrong. i used 5nm torque for the motor screws.

I use liqui moly LM47 ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/293068815879 ). so far it is not loud and i have no problems. i used around 2x tubes of liqui moly - putting grease in all holes. maybe too much but it works...and i dont know the reason for having air around the gears...
but perhaps there are some other experiences...that would be interesting…

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Aug 11 2019 1:39pm

Good writeup on the disassembly. I've had mine apart a half dozen times or more. When it was new it was a bit louder than I had expected and I read about the grease issue so cracked it open to have a look and it was definitely lacking grease. I got some Mobilgrease 28 which is supposed to cling to the gears better. Since then I have had two freewheels disintegrate (broken teeth); I now pedal with greater care to try to avoid this as it appears to be a weak point (a requirement for my next emtb will be it must have a sprag type freewheel - I know bosch and brose employ this mechanism). I also noticed that the outer bearings - especially on the drive side - have no seals - only a shield - so not very well protected from the elements and the outer bearing on the first primary gear that I replaced (with the freewheel) was developing a fair amount of corrosion. I'm convinced washing the bike with water generally does more harm than good and try to just dry brush and wipe down when possible. Regarding removal of the drive-side lock ring, a trick I came up with is to remove the motor and then reattach the chainring guard to the spider without the chainring and clamp the guard in my bench vice (with tape to avoid marring) and then I can use my torque wrench to loosen the lockring - same for reassembly. Reassembly can be a challenge - probably positioning the bike upside down would help but I have not found a way to clamp my bike in the work stand upside down so what I do instead is position the motor so that I can insert a small-diameter dowel or rod (I use my long T-handle 2.5 mm allen key) through the frame and motor in place of the front-most mounting bolt; this holds the motor in place with enough play so you can route and connect the wiring. Then you can push the motor into place and install the rear bolt, then the middle, then the front. A little fresh grease on the mounting bolts will help avoid creaking.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Stanleybb50 » Aug 12 2019 8:11pm

First - if Grace reads this, I will mark received tomorrow after I assemble. I just picked it up at FedEx today and quickly pulled it all out of the box when I got home with my kids, and my first impression is.....

So worth it! So absolutely flipping worth it. I'm very impressed to be honest with you. I know it was NOT a small amount of money spent, but I have absolutely no regrets from the spend as it all appears from unboxing!

I'll try to update and also try to get an image hosted going and post some pics, but I'm very impressed! I feel like a kid looking at it. 👍

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