My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 676
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Dec 22, 2017 6:10 pm

Thanks, but I think we need an update. Most high-end mountain bikes these days come with a 40-50T sprocket in the cassette, so that's up to a 500% range already. Some popular mountain bikes still come with a triple chainring crankset, so their range exceeds even what the Rohloff can offer.

I think it really depends on preferences and how the rider is going to use the bike. If you're commuting on mostly level terrain, I imagine any of these ranges will be more than adequate. If you're heavy on the throttle or assist or if you're super fit, a 380% or smaller range might be fine. But if you still want to use it as a regular mountain bike and/or you like that 22/24T chainring up front in your double or triple chainring crankset (or maybe you even use a 26T in a 1x setup!) or if you tow a trailer(s), you're probably going to want that 526% range.

For reference, the Frey bike has a 418% range.
icehunter wrote:
Dec 22, 2017 10:42 am
...typical 1 chainring derailleur setup (1x10, 11-36) give 327% range...
Having more closely spaced ratios can be advantageous to road (and even MTB) riders that are looking for the perfect gear to maintain an optimal cadence. Road cassettes have much more closely spaced ratios.

Cars are coming out with 10-speed transmissions now =)
icehunter wrote:
Dec 22, 2017 10:42 am
...The Rohloff has a 526% range but the mean step between gears is 13,5% vs. 20,1% for 7-speed hub gears, which explains why Rohloff users tend to shift two or more gears at a time. A typical car has 30% step range...

User avatar
scrambler
100 W
100 W
Posts: 236
Joined: Aug 10, 2015 7:23 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by scrambler » Dec 22, 2017 8:57 pm

Robleman wrote:
Dec 22, 2017 2:26 pm
Hi, i'm sorry my Alfine 8 is for 135mm width not 148mm. This is the only IGH I have tested so far.
So question for the experts:
- The Alfine 8 SG-S505 has an over lock nut width of 135mm, but an axle length of 187mm and a chainline of 47.7mm
- The Frey Am1000-S has a rear dropout of 148mm and a chainline of 48mm.
> Chainline is good
- 148mm (I assume internal) dropout means probably around 160mm External dropout width
Can Frey (or owner) confirm the External rear dropout width ?

That leaves 187-160 = 27mm, or 13.5mm on each side.

Would that be enough to secure the wheel, using spacers inside?
I understand you could also squeeze the swing arm a bit without affecting the whole assembly.

icehunter
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Dec 08, 2017 5:07 am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by icehunter » Dec 23, 2017 10:43 am

Can you at Frey share some detail and timeframe of the full suspension max ultra FAT bike that you are planning to roll out?

FREYebikes
10 W
10 W
Posts: 75
Joined: Dec 20, 2017 11:52 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Dec 27, 2017 1:57 am

hi, our full suspension fat bike with good components set will come out in coming month January.
We will update latest news following.
icehunter wrote:
Dec 23, 2017 10:43 am
Can you at Frey share some detail and timeframe of the full suspension max ultra FAT bike that you are planning to roll out?

nataS@phnet.fi
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 24
Joined: Jun 07, 2016 2:34 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by nataS@phnet.fi » Dec 28, 2017 1:33 pm

Finally got my cable working, no idea why i couldn´t use it with my laptop so i just had to wait for my girlfriend to leave the house and sneek the bike indoors straight cross to my PC 8) . Now the throttle works as intended and the bike feels much more capable in paths - smaller assist and in hard places just use the throttle to get by.
Think i´ll try Robocams findings later, now to a longer testdrive.

Support has been great from the factory from day one if someone is thinking ´bout buying a bike from them, another great place aside EM3EV im my opinion.

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Dec 30, 2017 10:53 am

Hello! My bike arrived yesterday. It was almost 2 weeks in shipping. I guess because of Christmas and New Year rush. Battery will arrive next week on Thursday or Wensday. I got the software and cable from Frey. Can you share your programming experience and settings? Happy New Year!😁

Pctree
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 30, 2017 10:11 am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Pctree » Dec 30, 2017 12:06 pm

Just to add a little to the conversation a bit, I have run a few ig hubs on various different bikes, I hate derailleurs ! I started with a nuvinci, it blew up in a catastrophic way. Tried 11 speed alfine, leaked like crazy and ended up not shifting. Tried 8 speed Nexus, lasted longer but still crapped out . I now have a shimano 3 speed. All of these were used on a fat tire bike with a bbshd set on 1 assist so low power.

I single track ride on pretty steep terrain and love to listen to music hence the requirement for no derailure .

My dream bike would have a pinion gear box with torque sensing email drive.....

I know keep dreaming

Pctree
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 30, 2017 10:11 am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Pctree » Dec 30, 2017 12:11 pm

@ Frey how much for an AM 1000 with rohloff hub ?

If you could build one I'd buy it .

User avatar
scrambler
100 W
100 W
Posts: 236
Joined: Aug 10, 2015 7:23 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by scrambler » Dec 30, 2017 6:15 pm

Pctree wrote:
Dec 30, 2017 12:11 pm
@ Frey how much for an AM 1000 with rohloff hub ?

If you could build one I'd buy it .
Depending where you are located, you can ask the local reseller of Rohloff to lace a rear wheel with it for you. It will probably add around $2000. On the west coast of the US, the company to contact is Cycle monkey
https://www.cyclemonkey.com/rohloff
http://cyclemonkeywheelhouse.blogspot.com/

User avatar
scrambler
100 W
100 W
Posts: 236
Joined: Aug 10, 2015 7:23 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area (USA)

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by scrambler » Dec 30, 2017 6:17 pm

Pctree wrote:
Dec 30, 2017 12:06 pm
My dream bike would have a pinion gear box with torque sensing email drive.....
The dream has a base, it is called Neematic.
Although at this point we have to wonder if the bike is a pipe dream :)
I guess we will know by the summer of 2018 the supposed date of delivery for a first batch of 50 bikes.

User avatar
Ecyclist
100 W
100 W
Posts: 272
Joined: Apr 01, 2016 10:53 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ecyclist » Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm

Pctree wrote:
Dec 30, 2017 12:11 pm
@ Frey how much for an AM 1000 with rohloff hub ?

If you could build one I'd buy it .
Please be realistic. Chinese are not going to buy $1200 rearhub to put on a bike for you.
Get the bike, get the Speedhub, lace it and put it all together. I did it and had tons of fun.
BTW: I bought my Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 CC DB OEM2 68027Z 36-holes 14-Speed Internal Gear Hub straight from dealer in Germany on eBay. Brand spanking new with 203mm disc and shipping for $1,192.23. You will need to do a little research to pick right type.

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 676
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Dec 31, 2017 1:28 am

Good to hear =) All I did was lower the start(kg) and the return(kg) to match (try 5-10 kg). I did this across all the speeds as a starting point. If you want full throttle available at any assist setting, under the "throttle" tab, change "designated assist" to 9. If you want the throttle to work in assist 0, change both values of current and speed from 0 to 1 under the "basic" tab.
oleaiz wrote:
Dec 30, 2017 10:53 am
Hello! My bike arrived yesterday. It was almost 2 weeks in shipping. I guess because of Christmas and New Year rush. Battery will arrive next week on Thursday or Wensday. I got the software and cable from Frey. Can you share your programming experience and settings? Happy New Year!😁

Pctree
100 µW
100 µW
Posts: 8
Joined: Dec 30, 2017 10:11 am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Pctree » Dec 31, 2017 9:38 am

Yes it may be optimistic to hope for a rohloff build but Frey seems responsive to customer demands. I just picked up a 36 hole rohloff disc for my non E bike so am able to build a wheel etc ,I was just hoping not to add another derailure and cluster to my parts bin. I run 2 busy businesses​ and barely make time to ride so wrenching on bikes is low on my list.....

Also why wouldn't a company want to offer a more desirable product? I see maybe a reluctance to buy from a foreign country but we should also be worrying about that :shock:

icehunter
1 mW
1 mW
Posts: 12
Joined: Dec 08, 2017 5:07 am

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by icehunter » Jan 01, 2018 6:48 pm

I would like to wish you all a happy new year. It is a pleasure being able to bounce ideas with such a talented lot.

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 676
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 01, 2018 6:57 pm

Happy new year! :)
icehunter wrote:
Jan 01, 2018 6:48 pm
I would like to wish you all a happy new year. It is a pleasure being able to bounce ideas with such a talented lot.

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Jan 03, 2018 9:41 am

Hello! Got the battery today and put it on the bike. My question is: on display there are only 5 level of assistance both in ECO and Sport. In software there are 9 level of assistance. How can I activate to see all 9 level of assistance on display? Did I understand something wrong?

jpstuckinnj
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Nov 24, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jpstuckinnj » Jan 03, 2018 12:47 pm

Hi Everyone, I've been following this thread since the beginning and have really appreciated the advice and input about this bike from everybody on this subject. A couple questions I have as I don't think it's been asked or answered yet.

1) What is the top speed folks have gotten on the bike using throttle only and with pedal assist. Assuming using the 44T setup that they sell the bike with.
2) What range are you getting with the battery so far. I know this is subjective to how you are using it but a rough idea would be great.

Thanks!

hoojsn
100 mW
100 mW
Posts: 43
Joined: Dec 11, 2017 11:58 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 03, 2018 12:57 pm

Probably you can take a look at this Review. Performance should be the same since it had
the Banfang Ultra 1000watts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rx31XFvACI

jpstuckinnj
1 µW
1 µW
Posts: 2
Joined: Nov 24, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jpstuckinnj » Jan 03, 2018 1:31 pm

hoojsn wrote:
Jan 03, 2018 12:57 pm
Probably you can take a look at this Review. Performance should be the same since it had
the Banfang Ultra 1000watts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rx31XFvACI
Thanks for the link!
So I watched it and he states top speed of roughly 40mph with pedal assist and 20-25mph with throttle only. Maybe I missed it didn't speak to range too much.
Does that sound about right to others for the Frey since the FLX according to link weighs in at around 58lbs. That 8lb+ difference may impact speed and distance. Thoughts?

User avatar
Ecyclist
100 W
100 W
Posts: 272
Joined: Apr 01, 2016 10:53 pm
Location: San Diego, California

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ecyclist » Jan 03, 2018 10:44 pm

jpstuckinnj wrote:
Jan 03, 2018 1:31 pm
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 03, 2018 12:57 pm
Probably you can take a look at this Review. Performance should be the same since it had
the Banfang Ultra 1000watts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Rx31XFvACI
Thanks for the link!
So I watched it and he states top speed of roughly 40mph with pedal assist and 20-25mph with throttle only. Maybe I missed it didn't speak to range too much.
Does that sound about right to others for the Frey since the FLX according to link weighs in at around 58lbs. That 8lb+ difference may impact speed and distance. Thoughts?
Everything will impact speed and range.
At 90% efficiency (that is very generous for a mountain e-bike) you will need 300W to ride at speed of 20 mph. 800W at 30 mph and 1730W at 40 mph. This might be all very optimistic. You will never double the top speed by adding human power. At 40 mph cadence will be out of human range. Has anyone of you guys, who got the bike, tested the top speed with a GPS? That would be one of the first things I would do.
Maybe you did and it is just too low to write about it. :mrgreen:
Last edited by Ecyclist on Jan 04, 2018 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
robocam
10 kW
10 kW
Posts: 676
Joined: May 29, 2014 8:44 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 03, 2018 11:50 pm

I was able to reach 30.6 mph (according to Strava) on throttle-only going down a flat road that ends in a very slight downhill.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 8#p1337988

But this was on a relatively short stretch of road.

With a cadence of 100, you can reach ~35 mph.
With a cadence of 120, you can reach ~41 mph.

This should be well within what most people are capable of.

Don't just look at the bike weight difference. I'm sure the difference between people will be far greater. I weigh 175 lbs. Top speed has more to do with air resistance.
Last edited by robocam on Jan 05, 2018 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

hoojsn
100 mW
100 mW
Posts: 43
Joined: Dec 11, 2017 11:58 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 04, 2018 12:41 am

After you got that ebike with 1000watts, you will never want to travel that fast. For me normally I use PAS1
Eco Mode and I am capable reaching 25 miles. If you want more speed, than you are in the wrong forum. You should get a Motorcycle. Ebike behave just like bicycle, but it give you boost when you need them.

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Jan 04, 2018 2:26 am

My question is: on the display there are only 5 levels of assistance both in ECO and Sport. In software there are 9 levels of assistance. How can I activate to see all 9 levels of assistance on display? Did I understand something wrong?

hoojsn
100 mW
100 mW
Posts: 43
Joined: Dec 11, 2017 11:58 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 04, 2018 3:15 am

In the 1st place before I got my bike, I want 9 PAS setup. After receiving the bike and riding for 2 mths 5PAS is just nice. I don't know anybody using the Ultra Motor configuring into 9PAS. If you have the bike you should just ride it and have fun instead of thinking of the setup. Or you could be the 1st one to do it with the help of your manufacturer if you insist.

oleaiz
10 mW
10 mW
Posts: 28
Joined: Nov 14, 2017 12:56 pm

Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by oleaiz » Jan 04, 2018 2:57 pm

Got it from Frey. Relation of assist level in software and display.
Attachments
HTB1plV6j7fb_uJjSsrb7626bVXah.png
HTB1plV6j7fb_uJjSsrb7626bVXah.png (49.48 KiB) Viewed 586 times

Post Reply