My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
This includes R/C motors, botttom bracket, roller and geared drives.
hoojsn
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 05, 2018 4:02 am

Thanks for the update info. From my observation Frey have a really great customer service beside great manufacturing capabilities.

I just wish to share a new channel in You -Tube dedicated to Electric Bike.
EMBM" Electric Mountain Bike Network

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERA-usbLPs

Cheers

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Ecyclist » Jan 05, 2018 7:23 am

hoojsn wrote:
Jan 04, 2018 12:41 am
For me normally I use PAS1 Eco Mode and I am capable reaching 25 miles. If you want more speed, than you are in the wrong forum. You should get a Motorcycle.
You cannot be serious. This is perfect forum to be on to get more than 25 mph out of an e-bike and I will stick around. :evil:
Last edited by Ecyclist on Jan 05, 2018 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 05, 2018 7:41 am

Thank you for your info and sharing. :D
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 4:02 am
Thanks for the update info. From my observation Frey have a really great customer service beside great manufacturing capabilities.

I just wish to share a new channel in You -Tube dedicated to Electric Bike.
EMBM" Electric Mountain Bike Network

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FERA-usbLPs

Cheers

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 05, 2018 7:54 am

Hello, everyone. Happy new 2018!
Glad to communicate with you all here!
We would like to share some information with all friends who love to ride mountain bike and eMTB.
We will have 2018 version AM1000 with some detail improvement in order to get a better performance. New demo expect to be made out in late of this month before bulk frame ready. and upgrade DELUXE RL 205*65mm rear suspension is new option.
We will keep all friends update here, please pay attention if you are interested to learn more.
For this model, as it match a big power mid drive motor, and as few of all mountain type full suspension model with Bafang Ultra mid motor system, we realize reliable and stable frame is important for durable use. so it is close to a heavy duty eMTB compare with other eMTB with 250W motor power, so make it in a lighter weight is very difficulty to do, but we will try to save some weight if possible to do in some parts. but it will not be big difference if with same motor and battery capacity.

And we also receive many demands on some bike with Bafang new motor m600. and we will try to develop some bike base on market demands and design ideas from you. I believe that we can make out a good bike by co-creation, any of ideas from you please feel free talk with us. from bike construction, components and so on.
If there are many guys interested to create some bike with m600, let's do it together!
Maybe we can open a new issue for this topic, how do you think about it, friends?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 05, 2018 8:00 am

Hi friend, we are contact with Rohloff company to ask for about the hub, if it is possible to buy it in a reasonable cost, and some customer is interested to use it, it is possible for us to make out the bike for you.
We will keep update news about IGH. BTW, 1200USD is really high cost to use it. any other cheaper and good options available?
Pctree wrote:
Dec 30, 2017 12:11 pm
@ Frey how much for an AM 1000 with rohloff hub ?

If you could build one I'd buy it .

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starky_boi
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by starky_boi » Jan 05, 2018 10:31 am

Hello, I have been following this thread for a while and have read it from the beginning.
I really like the Bafang Ultra system, and the fact that Frey has been really reactive with all my questions makes me eager to by an AM-1000.

To me the first thing that could be improved is weight by hollowing out some of the parts (I'm thinking rear pivot pieces) and maybe removing the connecting part just in front of the wheel in the rear triangle (I have not seen any ebike with this kind of geometry with a connecting rod there).

The second thing would be geometry, although I'm not an expert on this, and the current geometry seems already great, but if we can improve it, why not ? Something that seems strange to me is the dual pivot behind the motor, where any other ebike has a single pivot (the rear triangle is connected in only one place behind the motor) and I can't see why... If any expert on this could enlighten me, or even advise, that'd be great. EDIT: After looking at it closely I can now guess that it allows the rear triangle to move upwards instead of rotating... I feel dumb now eheh

I'm aware that hollowing out little parts won't do much, but a few grams here and there quickly add to half, or even a full kilo, which is great !

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 05, 2018 11:05 am

That "connecting part" is a vital component of the rear triangle. I suggest Googling "maestro suspension," to gain a better understanding of how it works. The Giant Full E uses a similar suspension system. All the pivots are necessary.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/full-eplus-1-sx-pro

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/global/s ... suspension

What kind of geometry improvements do you have in mind?
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 10:31 am
...To me the first thing that could be improved is weight by hollowing out some of the parts (I'm thinking rear pivot pieces) and maybe removing the connecting part just in front of the wheel in the rear triangle (I have not seen any ebike with this kind of geometry with a connecting rod there).

The second thing would be geometry, although I'm not an expert on this, and the current geometry seems already great, but if we can improve it, why not ? Something that seems strange to me is the dual pivot behind the motor, where any other ebike has a single pivot (the rear triangle is connected in only one place behind the motor) and I can't see why... If any expert on this could enlighten me, or even advise, that'd be great. EDIT: After looking at it closely I can now guess that it allows the rear triangle to move upwards instead of rotating... I feel dumb now eheh

I'm aware that hollowing out little parts won't do much, but a few grams here and there quickly add to half, or even a full kilo, which is great !

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by starky_boi » Jan 05, 2018 11:29 am

Thank you, I hadn't seen this kind of suspension design on other ebikes (altough I must admit I don't know alot about specific bike geometry). Now I see why this part is absolutely vital, with the dual pivot design on the lower part of the rear triangle.

I was mostly thinking about that rear triangle, but as you said, all the pivots are necessary, so it's all good :)
I was also thinking about details like a smaller head tube (although a long headtube might allow keeping a bit of "meat" on the fork tube, if I want to use it on another bike later...).

I'd like to see the possibility of having a "battery cover" to cover up the hole in the frame, in case I want to use the bike as a pedal-only bicycle.

Also the use of a Rockshock Deluxe rear shock would allow the use of the new trunnion mounts, if the pivot arm can be designed around it.
Last edited by starky_boi on Jan 05, 2018 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 05, 2018 11:43 am

Two of the heaviest component of bike is the Battery and the Bafang Motor.
1. Battery, unless you want less wattage equal less battery cell. Weight can be reduce.
2. Motor: Casing of the motor is pretty heavy, Frey can request Bafang to look into another material.

My next purchase will be for M600 motor ebike, the motor is well design and much lighter than the Ultra. Most importantly it stealth looking with hidden integrated battery Cosmetic appeasing compare to Bosh, Yamaha, Brose. It also can be control my Android Apps that reduce the display on the cockpit

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2017 ... s-10130989

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by romagjack » Jan 05, 2018 1:35 pm

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 7:54 am
If there are many guys interested to create some bike with m600, let's do it together!
Maybe we can open a new issue for this topic, how do you think about it, friends?
Good idea - new topic for M600.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by starky_boi » Jan 05, 2018 3:08 pm

hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 11:43 am
Two of the heaviest component of bike is the Battery and the Bafang Motor.
1. Battery, unless you want less wattage equal less battery cell. Weight can be reduce.
That's why I prefer the 48V 17.5Ah battery, 840Wh is plenty and it's better integrated in the frame :)
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 11:43 am
2. Motor: Casing of the motor is pretty heavy, Frey can request Bafang to look into another material.
I agree, Bafang motor enclosures are built like tanks. Much weight can be shaved off here.


Btw what do you guys think about Sram's new EX1 groupset ? Worth it ? Seems pricy, not sure about durability improvement...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm

My bike is using the EX1 System but exclude the chain ring and the crank set. which use the original from Bafang. Had 650 miles on it and still going strong. But I suggest to request Frey to include a Derailleur Gear Sensors in order not to smash the cog cassette and break the chain when shifting. Another thing F/R brake disc should have 203mm disc. I understand Frey have front 203mm but Rear only 180mm. If you request Frey to upgrade from your current set to EX1, it should be lower than US$250.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by starky_boi » Jan 05, 2018 4:11 pm

hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
But I suggest to request Frey to include a Derailleur Gear Sensors in order not to smash the cog cassette and break the chain when shifting.
Don't they include it already ? I thought they did as the Bafang Ultra includes it...
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
Another thing F/R brake disc should have 203mm disc. I understand Frey have front 203mm but Rear only 180mm.
Totally agree, would love to hear what Frey could do about that.
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
If you request Frey to upgrade from your current set to EX1, it should be lower than US$250.
Yeah it's quite steeply priced still... and 3 speeds less

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Pctree » Jan 05, 2018 9:54 pm

Does the m600 have torque sensing ??

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Animalector » Jan 05, 2018 10:34 pm

Does the m600 have torque sensing ??
Yes it does, it's similar to the Shimano e8000 in size. The torque of the bafang is better. I can't wait to see what they can offer with the m600/m500 motors. I've got the current Bafang 350W torque sensing motor at the moment, and the motor is great, but the frame designs need to be improved.

Andy

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Shilah » Jan 05, 2018 10:39 pm

Yes, it has a torque sensor. I am interested to it too. But I would like to have a full trail bike with a large battery and short travel suspension

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 05, 2018 11:50 pm

Hi, in new batch frame, 2 parts on frame will be hollowed to save some weight, that is top swing arm and bottom arm. the present Swing arm, we make it hollowed as below, the weight will be 120g less. we will do it as below way.
IMG_20180103_104232.jpg
IMG_20180103_104232.jpg (143.79 KiB) Viewed 582 times
IMG_20180103_104215.jpg
IMG_20180103_104215.jpg (136.7 KiB) Viewed 582 times
And the head tube present frame is 160mm, the new batch frame will be 145mm. we make it some shorter.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 10:31 am
Hello, I have been following this thread for a while and have read it from the beginning.
I really like the Bafang Ultra system, and the fact that Frey has been really reactive with all my questions makes me eager to by an AM-1000.

To me the first thing that could be improved is weight by hollowing out some of the parts (I'm thinking rear pivot pieces) and maybe removing the connecting part just in front of the wheel in the rear triangle (I have not seen any ebike with this kind of geometry with a connecting rod there).

The second thing would be geometry, although I'm not an expert on this, and the current geometry seems already great, but if we can improve it, why not ? Something that seems strange to me is the dual pivot behind the motor, where any other ebike has a single pivot (the rear triangle is connected in only one place behind the motor) and I can't see why... If any expert on this could enlighten me, or even advise, that'd be great. EDIT: After looking at it closely I can now guess that it allows the rear triangle to move upwards instead of rotating... I feel dumb now eheh

I'm aware that hollowing out little parts won't do much, but a few grams here and there quickly add to half, or even a full kilo, which is great !

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 06, 2018 12:03 am

1. About gear sensor, we just tested power cut off when shifting gears. it seems mainly protect the cassette more durable, no more other function?
IMG_20180106_140940.jpg
IMG_20180106_140940.jpg (163.52 KiB) Viewed 570 times
2. Rear disc in 203mm, we will check the possibility in new batch frame.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 4:11 pm
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
But I suggest to request Frey to include a Derailleur Gear Sensors in order not to smash the cog cassette and break the chain when shifting.
Don't they include it already ? I thought they did as the Bafang Ultra includes it...
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
Another thing F/R brake disc should have 203mm disc. I understand Frey have front 203mm but Rear only 180mm.
Totally agree, would love to hear what Frey could do about that.
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
If you request Frey to upgrade from your current set to EX1, it should be lower than US$250.
Yeah it's quite steeply priced still... and 3 speeds less
Last edited by FREYebikes on Jan 06, 2018 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FREYebikes » Jan 06, 2018 1:05 am

About bike with m600, we can discuss in another topic in below:
Any of your ideas are welcome.
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p1348820

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 06, 2018 2:08 am

Yes, that's what it's supposed to do. Personally, I do not think it is necessary. I have had many ebikes (GNG, BBSHD, Cyclone 3000, and now this Ultra), and I've never had any problems with the gears. It will only interfere with my riding. I've read about people having problems with it as well.

However, I understand some people like it, so maybe just offer it as an option.
FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 06, 2018 12:03 am
1. About gear sensor, we just tested power cut off when shifting gears. it seems mainly protect the cassette more durable, no more other function?...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 06, 2018 2:22 am

FREYebikes wrote:
Jan 06, 2018 12:03 am
1. About gear sensor, we just tested power cut off when shifting gears. it seems mainly protect the cassette more durable, no more other function?
IMG_20180106_140940.jpg
2. Rear disc in 203mm, we will check the possibility in new batch frame.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 4:11 pm
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
But I suggest to request Frey to include a Derailleur Gear Sensors in order not to smash the cog cassette and break the chain when shifting.
Don't they include it already ? I thought they did as the Bafang Ultra includes it...
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
Another thing F/R brake disc should have 203mm disc. I understand Frey have front 203mm but Rear only 180mm.
Totally agree, would love to hear what Frey could do about that.
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:32 pm
If you request Frey to upgrade from your current set to EX1, it should be lower than US$250.
Yeah it's quite steeply priced still... and 3 speeds less
It protects the Chain and Cassette gear from smashing when shifting. It will extends the life for both of them

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 06, 2018 2:36 am

It seems like a good idea, but my main issue with it is cost. When it comes time to replace the cassette, you're looking at paying over $300 for a new one.

You'll also lose the close-ratio gear spacing, if that's important to you. I like having more speeds to choose from, especially for when I'm pedaling.

Usually on a typical cassette, the smallest cogs wear out first, and those are individually replaceable for a few dollars each.

Regular cassettes are serving me well, so I have no reason to switch, but for those that are having issues, it might be something to look into along with the Rohloff.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:08 pm
...Btw what do you guys think about Sram's new EX1 groupset ? Worth it ? Seems pricy, not sure about durability improvement...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by hoojsn » Jan 06, 2018 2:46 am

EX1 Cog for the smallest gear can be individually replace.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Jan 06, 2018 2:46 am

Is the M600 Bafang's lightest torque sensing drive with a throttle? Honestly, I just want something like a Levo Turbo or Full E but with a throttle.

I would prefer a 52V (14s4p) battery made with Samsung 30Q cells.

If they switch to the FSR rear suspension, maybe they can make the chainstay length shorter as well, although I wonder if a longer chainstay will help me climb steeper hills =)

Isn't the case made out of aluminum already? The Ultra's probably so heavy because of how big the gears are and how much copper mass is in the motor.
starky_boi wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 3:08 pm
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 11:43 am
Two of the heaviest component of bike is the Battery and the Bafang Motor.
1. Battery, unless you want less wattage equal less battery cell. Weight can be reduce.
That's why I prefer the 48V 17.5Ah battery, 840Wh is plenty and it's better integrated in the frame :)
hoojsn wrote:
Jan 05, 2018 11:43 am
2. Motor: Casing of the motor is pretty heavy, Frey can request Bafang to look into another material.
I agree, Bafang motor enclosures are built like tanks. Much weight can be shaved off here...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by starky_boi » Jan 06, 2018 9:59 am

Yeah the motor enclosure is made of aluminum but it's really thick, that's great because it looks like you could drop it on rocks all day long but maybe that's a bit too thick... No one would abuse it that much.

Personally I'd love to see new battery packs with 20700 cells, we could see 48V 20Ah+ packs fitting in the same enclosures as 18650 48V 17.5Ah packs.

I also think that a 11 speed cassette is great to have for those times when you want to pedal, and as you mentionned a replacement cassette is almost 6 times cheaper... I'm not sure the EX1 is 6 times more durable.

Robocam, have you tried pedaling without assistance ? Does it feel too heavy ? Do you think it would be beneficial to change the 44T chainring for a 40T ?

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