My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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Sinbord1981   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jun 10 2019 5:19am

El_Topo wrote:
Jun 09 2019 8:39am
I would be particularly interested in how the controller/motor combination works in terms of feeling a like a bicycle instead of motorbike.
El_Topo the AM1000 rides exactly like you would expect a normal bicycle to ride. I do a lot of cycling and motorcycling and can assure you it is very progressive and smooth and matched to the torque you put in through the pedals. The different assist levels make the controller/motor put in less or more assistance, exactly as you would expect. Starting on a hill is no issue. You get a clean getaway.
El_Topo wrote:
Jun 09 2019 8:39am
Does it adjust it based on certain variables such as the gyro data (indicating if you are going uphill or downhill) like Bosch's new EMTB mode does?
No. There is no inbuilt gyro as far as I am aware but then I really don't think you need such a thing. When I was riding mine on Saturday if I wanted a bit more assistance going up a hill I'd knock it up an assistance level and going downhill I'd knock it back. To be honest that's probably not necessary since you really don't need much by the way of motor assistance going down hills due to the weight of the bike and your own pedal power. I was just try to be as sympathetic to the drive as possible, also given it was the first use of the battery so I wanted to only lightly load it on its first few cycles. I also wanted to make sure I was getting a good workout and getting the usual sort of burn in my legs without making it too easy on myself. It all depends what you want from the bike, how fit you are and how much cycling you do anyway. The way my bike rides is faultless. I will have a play with some of the programmable controller settings in due course just to see what difference it makes. I'll have a read up on Bosch's new EMTB gyro functionality just out of interest though. My recommendation to you is that if you're looking for a powerful eBike you won't do any/much better than the AM1000 so just go a buy one. You won't be disappointed.

I am sure newer even better features will come out in the future for eBikes - downhill top up charging for the battery or regenerative braking to charge the battery as well - but this is the here and now and the AM1000 pretty much does all you're going to need.

I'll give you another update once I've had a proper go off road on it.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by El_Topo » Jun 10 2019 9:01am

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, Sinbord1981.
Sinbord1981 wrote:
Jun 10 2019 5:19am
No. There is no inbuilt gyro as far as I am aware but then I really don't think you need such a thing. When I was riding mine on Saturday if I wanted a bit more assistance going up a hill I'd knock it up an assistance level and going downhill I'd knock it back. .... I will have a play with some of the programmable controller settings in due course just to see what difference it makes. I'll have a read up on Bosch's new EMTB gyro functionality just out of interest though.
Adjusting the assist level is something I don't want to do often, let alone constantly. From what I've read the Bosch is a motor systems that seems to offer a one-for-all MTBing mode (except maybe having more than one adaptive power mode).
I thought I've read about gyroscopic data being used for those adaptive modes but I wasn't able to verify this via Google so far. Gyro or not (though I bet there is benefit in using gyro data like with phones or cameras), in terms of reading up on Bosch's eMTB mode, this seems like a good summary how it works, those are 5 reasons to use it and this (and posts that follow) seems like a good user review, I believe to have seen better write ups in the past but I am unable to find them at the moment.
Sinbord1981 wrote:
Jun 10 2019 5:19am
My recommendation to you is that if you're looking for a powerful eBike you won't do any/much better than the AM1000 so just go a buy one. You won't be disappointed.
I am sure newer even better features will come out in the future for eBikes ... but this is the here and now and the AM1000 pretty much does all you're going to need.
I think you misunderstood me, I am not of those waiting for fairy dust technology before I buy (meaning never) but given the high price I expect to ride it for many, many years and based on what I know so far I am hesitant to invest 4K € in something that doesn't (?) offer something that is readily available by other manufacturers since at least two years and is AFAIK just a software update. As testriding such bikes is almost impossible you need to rely on what you read on the interwebz.
Sinbord1981 wrote:
Jun 10 2019 5:19am
I'll give you another update once I've had a proper go off road on it.
Great, looking forward to your (what I expect it be from what and how you have written it so far) comprehensive review! I am sure it is a nice ride and no matter if I decide to buy it or not I am sure it will be a useful write up for me as well as many others! :-)

I had a quick glance at the manual but I haven't found anything that indicates that the sport mode of the DP C18.UART is adaptive.

On a side note:
Is it possible to set the bike up in such a way that it always falls back to the rad legal 25km/h (or 20mp/h if you live in other parts of the world) after you shut the electronics down. This would be tremendously useful in certain situations... :wink:

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Marmalade » Jun 11 2019 7:12am

My 2c on this topic.

I do a good share of riding with both Specialised and Merida e-bikes within e-mtb group rides, and can attest that the AM1000 does have a hard time keeping up with them in tight,twisty & rough single track type riding due to it size and weight.

But out in the open or up any hills it will simply chew them up and spit them out.

On reasonably smooth tracks the 1000 can comfortably keep up with them on level 1 which says it all... switch to level 3 and you'll out accelerate and tear away into the distance, and it still feels like you're not even trying. Good way to get dirty looks though. You could simply leave it on level 2 and ride with them comfortably all day and still have 30-40% battery left afterwards (on a 21ah batt). The inbuilt torque sensor does a pretty damned good job at allowing you to modulate how much power you need.

The motor is certainly not as smooth as the bosch or shimano, but it does it nicely for the amount of power its pumping out, and feels natural once you get accustomed to using the correct gearing for the rpm/speed.

Personally I would go for the new 2019 model over the 1000 if it's all about shredding the trails... but you are then near the price point of low end electric Meridas.

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Deafcat   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Deafcat » Jun 11 2019 10:58am

Marmalade wrote:
Jun 11 2019 7:12am
Personally I would go for the new 2019 model over the 1000 if it's all about shredding the trails... but you are then near the price point of low end electric Meridas.
Which new 2019 model?

I definitely agree with you on this kind of bike being too heavy to be nimble in the trail... Full suspension G510 and a big battery is a ton of mass, and too much suspension for trail/single track stuff. hardtail with big tires is the way to go, or even rigid with carbon fork and plus/mid fat tires.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jun 11 2019 3:54pm

Marmalade wrote:
Jun 11 2019 7:12am
I do a good share of riding with both Specialised and Merida e-bikes within e-mtb group rides, and can attest that the AM1000 does have a hard time keeping up with them in tight,twisty & rough single track type riding due to it size and weight.

But out in the open or up any hills it will simply chew them up and spit them out.
Not sure about the rough argument, yes its longer and weighs more than others, but that also has advantages when going over fast singletracks. Hairpins do slow me down, but the bike is extremely stable at high speeds on down and up hills and over roots and rocks that would throw many other bikes around like dolls. I haven't found a part on strava where the AM1000 couldn't beat the time set, and then I'm talking about the standard leaderboards as well as the e-bike specific leaderboards. Keeping in mind that in Switzerland the power output is set to 500W and many derestrict their bikes here plus there's plenty of good enduro riders around the hills here.

Sinbord1981   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jun 12 2019 8:10am

Had my first proper foray off road on my AM1000 yesterday evening. I actually tacked it on on my way home from work as I commuted in on the bike to let a couple of colleagues take a look . I went through the woods, wide open trails and deep boggy muddy sections littered with tree roots. I must say I found it very stable with excellent traction. There's no way I'd get anywhere close to that speed on my normal mountain bike. It was impressive. The gearing was spot on actually - but even though I've ordered a 42T chainring (over my current 40T) I will still stick it on to see how it goes. I think I could still lose a little off the lower range end as I didn't use the 46t at all. What I rode on wasn't particularly that tight and technical and I think it might struggle there a little bit but on the more open stuff its simply epic. Before El-Topo asks, yes it's nice a smooth, progressive and rides like a bicycle not a motorbike. This is an eBike on steroids.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kaybee123 » Jun 12 2019 1:05pm

I am currently not having the same experience unfortunately.

My front disc brake rubs (and the front wheel has alignment issues) so I'm bringing it into a bike shop to have tuned before I can properly ride it.

Also, from the limited riding I have done, the throttle seems to come on REALLY strong and the torque sensing seems to only work well when there is a significant amount of torque being applied. Compared to my Voltbike, this is the opposite of smooth.

I'm looking for the Frey software (or any software for that matter) that will allow me to configure the torque settings (and perhaps the throttle) on the bike. Can anyone help?

Image

I saw Bafang software from 2016 but I'm not sure if it's safe to use on this.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/11/2 ... ike-drive/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/2 ... the-bbs02/

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jun 12 2019 2:21pm

Yes that software package worked for me.

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SunnyDay1   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by SunnyDay1 » Jun 12 2019 6:03pm

kaybee123 wrote:
Jun 12 2019 1:05pm
I am currently not having the same experience unfortunately.

My front disc brake rubs (and the front wheel has alignment issues) so I'm bringing it into a bike shop to have tuned before I can properly ride it.

Also, from the limited riding I have done, the throttle seems to come on REALLY strong and the torque sensing seems to only work well when there is a significant amount of torque being applied. Compared to my Voltbike, this is the opposite of smooth.

I'm looking for the Frey software (or any software for that matter) that will allow me to configure the torque settings (and perhaps the throttle) on the bike. Can anyone help?

Image

I saw Bafang software from 2016 but I'm not sure if it's safe to use on this.
https://electricbike-blog.com/2017/11/2 ... ike-drive/
https://electricbike-blog.com/2015/06/2 ... the-bbs02/
Use this link for the software that Hardcore provided earlier:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18DCTQo ... Zr-1m/view

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kaybee123 » Jun 12 2019 9:41pm

Ahh yes, thanks! That's what I used earlier. I changed the torque like it was shown in the video (to start of 5 instead of 20) and it makes a HUGE difference in smoothness. Tweaking the software has made a tremendous improvement on the bike.

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My Default Config & reprogramming

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jun 13 2019 4:26pm

So I got my software and cable working with my new AM1000 GS510.1000 and first job was to read off all the base default settings. Then I made a few minor tweaks just to the 'Pedal Assist' & 'Throttle Handle' tabs. The first four pictures below show each tab BEFORE I made any changes. The last two pictures show the changed 'Pedal Assist' & 'Throttle Handle' tabs. I am planning to make a few tweaks to the 'Torque' tab in the next few days to smooth/soften it up a bit on start ups. I'm running my bike on 52V 17.5ah battery packs.

These first four pictures below are the standard default settings that came on my bike:
Image
Image
Image
Image

These next two pictures below are the modified settings I made on the 'Pedal Assist' & 'Throttle Handle' tabs:
Image
Image

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SunnyDay1   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by SunnyDay1 » Jun 13 2019 9:09pm

Topped out at 38.6 mph today, could have gone faster but that was enough. Scary fast.....
Max-Speed.jpg
Max-Speed.jpg (116.99 KiB) Viewed 740 times

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Deafcat » Jun 13 2019 10:26pm

Woah, not bad!!!

Sinbord1981   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jun 14 2019 1:42am

SunnyDay1 wrote:
Jun 13 2019 9:09pm
Topped out at 38.6 mph today, could have gone faster but that was enough. Scary fast.....
Max-Speed.jpg
I had just over 40mph out of mine but that was down a slight hill. Was yours on the flat? How come you battery shows 59.2V? I’m running 52V packs and have only ever seen 58.8 max, which is what they charge to.

These high speeds on such a weighty bike is scary as it takes quite a lot to pull them from that!

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Jun 14 2019 2:21am

SunnyDay1 wrote:
Jun 13 2019 9:09pm
Topped out at 38.6 mph today, could have gone faster but that was enough. Scary fast.....
Max-Speed.jpg
What gear combination and cadence did you use to reach that speed? Subjectively, how much effort did it require? I'm assuming this was on flat road not downhill?

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SunnyDay1   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by SunnyDay1 » Jun 14 2019 5:41am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Jun 14 2019 1:42am
SunnyDay1 wrote:
Jun 13 2019 9:09pm
Topped out at 38.6 mph today, could have gone faster but that was enough. Scary fast.....
Max-Speed.jpg
I had just over 40mph out of mine but that was down a slight hill. Was yours on the flat? How come you battery shows 59.2V? I’m running 52V packs and have only ever seen 58.8 max, which is what they charge to.

These high speeds on such a weighty bike is scary as it takes quite a lot to pull them from that!
That high-speed run was on a slight downhill too. I have 2 - 52v packs, coming off the charger they always read 59.2 or 59.3 volts to start with.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by SunnyDay1 » Jun 14 2019 5:46am

formula101 wrote:
Jun 14 2019 2:21am
SunnyDay1 wrote:
Jun 13 2019 9:09pm
Topped out at 38.6 mph today, could have gone faster but that was enough. Scary fast.....
Max-Speed.jpg
What gear combination and cadence did you use to reach that speed? Subjectively, how much effort did it require? I'm assuming this was on flat road not downhill?
I was cruising on a slight downhill road at around 15 mph in ECO mode 3 then switched to sport mode 5. It does not take much effort to hit that speed, probably within 10 seconds.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jun 14 2019 6:01am

Made tweaks to my Torque Tab settings this morning and it rides really smoothly now. I'm pleased with the results.

The picture shows the torque tab with the new values entered and the circled numbers shows the ones I changed with my scribbles alongside for what they were by default out the crate.

Image

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kaybee123 » Jun 14 2019 10:57pm

Yeah I feel like lowering the initial torque activation level makes it much smoother.

Now the only thing that I'd like to figure out is how to slow down the acceleration with the thumb throttle. It's... well, too strong. It's quite challenging to hold the throttle at 15% in order to maintain a nice leisurely speed.

If you accidentally hit it too much (say 70% for a few seconds), now you're going wayyyy too fast. On ECO mode, I'd love to reduce the throttle power to make maintaining 15-25mph (25-40kph) easy.

Update: I just found this and will be trying it soon:

Try tweaking the voltage setting for the thumb throttle on the last page of the programming settings. Most throttles top out at 4.2v. The default settings for the BBS02 is 1.1v to 3.5 and it ignores anything higher than 3.5 and lower than 1.1v. You can lower the 1.1 number and raise the 3.5 number to get more range on your throttle. Don’t put in a high number higher than 42 (4.2v) or you won’t be able to get the full amount of power out of your BBSxx unit.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jun 15 2019 1:24am

kaybee123 wrote:
Jun 14 2019 10:57pm
Now the only thing that I'd like to figure out is how to slow down the acceleration with the thumb throttle. It's... well, too strong. It's quite challenging to hold the throttle at 15% in order to maintain a nice leisurely speed.
Kaybee123 I’ve got my throttle settings set to:
Start Voltage: 11
End Voltage: 36
Mode: Speed
Designated Assist: 9
Limited Speed: 40kph
Start Current: 5%

[I’m running 52V battery packs]

It seems pretty good like that and accelerates smoothly, topping out at ~25mph.

I haven’t tried Mode: Current yet but might give that ago go as well but I haven’t really been using the thumb throttle that much.

Just got the suspension properly dialed in on mine. Only just found out that I can effectively lock out the rear which will be better on the road.

Off our now to try a pull up Boxhill, then a few trails and then properly off road on an old BMX tack through the local woods, which will be tight and technical. I’m expecting to struggle a bit through that but there are quite a few small jumps as well so that should be fun. Still waiting on my new 42T chainring to arrive to replace the existing 40T that’s on the bike but it’s not to far off from being ideal gearing for me TBH.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robwalley1963 » Jun 15 2019 8:08am

I've taken the plunge and ordered a Frey HT1000 for the UK.

I have lung issues and am used to cadence only sensors and reprogramming my current BBS02, so I need to figure out how to basically turn off the torque page or set all levels to a minimum so it feels like it's cadence only.

Haven't seen a full explanation of the 'torque' page yet, guess I will still have the throttle in the short term.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Jun 17 2019 8:21am

What mud guards have you fitted?

I’ve ordered the Mudhugger Race front and Mudhugger rear, with their red decal kit. Are they any good?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kaybee123 » Jun 23 2019 9:50pm

How's the battery life treating you guys?

Perhaps I changed settings that negatively impacted the battery when programming the BBSHD however as far as I know, I have been making things smoother (and slower).

Yet, I just charge the battery to 100%, ran a few laps in front of my house (literally went back and forth on the street a few times) and the charge dropped from 100% to 90% within about 8 minutes.

And the day before that, I saw the charge drop from 25% to 16%, from 16% to 11% and then to 9% within about 10 minutes. I'm perplexed because I have the large 48v 21amp battery

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jun 24 2019 3:21pm

The first and last part of the voltage drop during discharge is steeper than the bulk. How is the overall capacity?

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kaybee123 » Jun 24 2019 9:31pm

I'll have to do a proper test soon! The next time I go out, I'll be starting at 90% so we'll see how the 90% to 20% goes.

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