My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Discussions related to motors other than hub motors.
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cscscs   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by cscscs » Oct 22 2019 11:43am

SpeedHunter wrote:
Oct 22 2019 3:00am
Hey guys, does the motor disengage during gear changes? I just rode a custom e bike today with a Bafang Mid Drive 48v1000w kit installed and it was quite jarring how the motor cut out when I changed gears... THanks
I removed the gear sensor from my Bafang Mid Drive 48v1000w eMTB. I also removed the rear-brake sensor for the same reason. Standard good shifting practices are warranted just like with a non-e bike. With this configuration I get consistently smooth, silent shifting. Reprogramming the controller helped in this regard, as I shortened the time the motor takes to ramp down after stopping pedaling and this results in a much smoother cutoff than the abrupt instantaneous cutoff triggered by the sensors. I left the front brake sensor as front brake usage always seems to coincide nicely with the need for instant power cutoff and I don't even notice it.

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fechter   100 GW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by fechter » Oct 22 2019 1:49pm

Another trick is if you pedal backward, the motor will stop instantly. This is especially useful on a technical off road trail to keep from getting launched over the side of a cliff.
"One test is worth a thousand opinions"

formula101   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 23 2019 6:23pm

Forget about the bikes, I want some reviews of that hotel dining!

But seriously, if I had the budget for a $4K+ bike, Frey would def. be on the short list.

I've read that int'l shipping costs $700 to $1K however. Is this true?

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tsellers   100 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by tsellers » Oct 23 2019 6:39pm

I paid $800.00 for the bike shipping, which is by Fed Ex. As I am building my own batteries, I did not have to pay the additional $150.00 to ship a battery via UPS.
Regards, John

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 23 2019 6:45pm

Front and rear suspension, what a fantastic luxury. And I believe there is at least one full suspension model with a rear rack option.

Even though a class 3 like Juiced or Surface604 can legitimately get to 29-30 mph top speed, as opposed to the bafang ultra's 34 or so mph, they don't offer full suspension.

Biktrix is an option but they don't offer a rear rack like Frey does.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by kulmer01 » Oct 26 2019 4:50pm

How are your batteries doing? Is Frey using quality cells and chargers?

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Oct 27 2019 3:03am

kulmer01 wrote:
Oct 26 2019 4:50pm
How are your batteries doing? Is Frey using quality cells and chargers?
Going good for me. Frey use Samsung 3500 cells. I’ve got the AM1000 v5 that I bought with two 52V 17.5ah batteries. They both charge and run very well. Takes about 3-4 hours to fully charge and the charger cuts out once done.

Yesterday I did 44 miles with my local cycling club on road. At the end of the ride I had 43% battery remaining and a range of 39 miles left. I was only using Eco assist levels for most of the ride, although the last two miles to home I was on Sport Level 5 and hit 45mph on slight downhill run. I know it’s an off-road bike but do occasionally ride it on road with my club just to see whether I’m still getting the range. It was also very windy yesterday but the AM1000 was rick solid 😉

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Oct 27 2019 3:59am

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Oct 27 2019 3:03am
Yesterday I did 44 miles with my local cycling club on road. At the end of the ride I had 43% battery remaining and a range of 39 miles left. I was only using Eco assist levels for most of the ride, although the last two miles to home I was on Sport Level 5 and hit 45mph on slight downhill run. I know it’s an off-road bike but do occasionally ride it on road with my club just to see whether I’m still getting the range. It was also very windy yesterday but the AM1000 was rick solid
always very nice videos !!!! really nice :D

it could be that newer DPC18 displays include a setting for a 52V battery. but normally the DPC18 calculates discharge capacity based on voltage of a 48V battery. fuel gauge and percentage level won't be accurate at all. this means 43% on a 52V battery might be only 10-20% discharge capacity left - about 44-46 volts i guess - almost empty. using a 52V battery i highly recommend to switch to voltage mode not percentage mode using a DPC18 - being able to estimate your remaining discharge capacity. a better way is either a smart bms (eg neptune15) or another display (eg eggrider) which can handle 52V battery discharge capacity.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Oct 27 2019 5:05am

barbarossa wrote:
Oct 27 2019 3:59am
always very nice videos !!!! really nice :D

it could be that newer DPC18 displays include a setting for a 52V battery. but normally the DPC18 calculates discharge capacity based on voltage of a 48V battery. fuel gauge and percentage level won't be accurate at all. this means 43% on a 52V battery might be only 10-20% discharge capacity left - about 44-46 volts i guess - almost empty. using a 52V battery i highly recommend to switch to voltage mode not percentage mode using a DPC18 - being able to estimate your remaining discharge capacity. a better way is either a smart bms (eg neptune15) or another display (eg eggrider) which can handle 52V battery discharge capacity.
Cheers Barbarossa. Yeah it’s all an approximation really and changes in real time depending on how hard you’re riding it and what mode your in. All I know is that I can squeeze out almost 70 miles on mine in the road in Eco 1 or I can put it in Sport 5 off-road and do the battery in an hour and 20 miles. It is a nice high capacity battery and just takes a bit of managing depending on what ride you’re about to do. The Frey batteries do seem pretty good though and I’m happy with both of mine.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by barbarossa » Oct 27 2019 12:52pm

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Oct 27 2019 3:03am
kulmer01 wrote:
Oct 26 2019 4:50pm
How are your batteries doing? Is Frey using quality cells and chargers?
Sinbord1981 wrote:
Oct 27 2019 5:05am
barbarossa wrote:
Oct 27 2019 3:59am
always very nice videos !!!! really nice :D

it could be that newer DPC18 displays include a setting for a 52V battery. but normally the DPC18 calculates discharge capacity based on voltage of a 48V battery. fuel gauge and percentage level won't be accurate at all. this means 43% on a 52V battery might be only 10-20% discharge capacity left - about 44-46 volts i guess - almost empty. using a 52V battery i highly recommend to switch to voltage mode not percentage mode using a DPC18 - being able to estimate your remaining discharge capacity. a better way is either a smart bms (eg neptune15) or another display (eg eggrider) which can handle 52V battery discharge capacity.
Cheers Barbarossa. Yeah it’s all an approximation really and changes in real time depending on how hard you’re riding it and what mode your in. All I know is that I can squeeze out almost 70 miles on mine in the road in Eco 1 or I can put it in Sport 5 off-road and do the battery in an hour and 20 miles. It is a nice high capacity battery and just takes a bit of managing depending on what ride you’re about to do. The Frey batteries do seem pretty good though and I’m happy with both of mine.
Cheers Sinbord1981
yes, of course these things are never 100% exact but in the case of 52V it is not exact at all :wink:

i can only talk about the Frey AM1000.

battery:
Reention Dorado Max, 505mm , 80 cells maximum. 52V = 14s/5p = 70 cells or 48V = 13s/6p = 78 cells. cells are Samsung 35E = 3500mAh/2.65V low/8A cont or LG MJ1 = 3500mAh/2.5V low/10A cont (newer batteries with Samsung cells). in reality the Samsung also does 10A without immediate overheating. type of cell is decoded printed on battery i think, attached fotos, L35=LG, S35=Samsung. cells never got really hot - even not at 45A cont (i have the 48V LG-cell version)

bms:
no rocket science but a good standard bms. 30A rated, but also does appr. 50A peak and around 45A cont (my own test results, somewhere over 50A it cuts off). cells are well balanced.

charger:
the charger is ok for me. to be honest i use it for all my batteries. one of the potentiometers changes voltage (but of course you have to open it) so you can use it eg for 54.6v and 58.8v (48V and 52V batteries, and even higher voltages). i think this is the "Chinese standard model" - sold at many voltage/ampere levels - just with different pot settings. so hey i am flexible testing packs with different voltages. it charges with 5A (exactly measured mine was 4.78A using 54.4V charging voltage charging my 48V battery) so it is also fast. fan is a little noisy but it is ok.

connection cables frame/battery:
seems to be AWG12, which is absolutely ok i think

all in all battery and charger work well, nice built, nice quality cells, never had any problems...
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Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Oct 28 2019 4:55pm

New video I did reviewing my AM1000, specs & components. Any questions please ask and I'll try my best to answer.


batboy   10 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by batboy » Oct 28 2019 10:31pm

I need some advice on the frame sizes. I usually fit the "small" sized frames when purchasing bikes but the Frey bikes only come in medium or larger sizes. I am 5' 5" tall. Ivy thinks the medium will fit but reading through this I see some people that are 5'10" and the medium is a good fit.

formula101   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 28 2019 11:10pm

As a very general rule of thumb, for mtb sizing:

Small: 5'5" and under

Medium: 5'6" to 5'10"

Large: 5'11"+

XL: at least 6'2" or 6'3"

You might be able to make a size medium work. It's probably possible with a shorter stem (which will make steering noticeably quicker), and perhaps a shoe with a slightly larger heel for a little bit more standover. I definitely know riders who are 5'5" and 5'6" who can ride a small or medium, depending on geometry and personal preference.

Normally I'd recommend a test ride but obviously that's not possible with this model. I recommend finding an mtb with similar geometry, esp. reach and standover, to see if the geometry at least works for you.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Oct 28 2019 11:59pm

When you ride on a small frame, how far forward do you have the seat on the seat post?

I got a medium, and I'm 5'9". I have to extend the seat post significantly if I want my legs to extend. Are you going to go offroad with it on rough trails where you would need a dropper to get the seat out of the way? What's your inseam?

Aren't most measurements usually within about an inch between frame sizes anyway? I imagine anyone could go up or down a size and still be ok though I don't know what the long-term effects might be.
batboy wrote:
Oct 28 2019 10:31pm
I need some advice on the frame sizes. I usually fit the "small" sized frames when purchasing bikes but the Frey bikes only come in medium or larger sizes. I am 5' 5" tall. Ivy thinks the medium will fit but reading through this I see some people that are 5'10" and the medium is a good fit.
Last edited by robocam on Oct 29 2019 3:39am, edited 1 time in total.

Sinbord1981   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Sinbord1981 » Oct 29 2019 2:24am

batboy wrote:
Oct 28 2019 10:31pm
I need some advice on the frame sizes. I usually fit the "small" sized frames when purchasing bikes but the Frey bikes only come in medium or larger sizes. I am 5' 5" tall. Ivy thinks the medium will fit but reading through this I see some people that are 5'10" and the medium is a good fit.
Hi Batboy - message me direct if you’d like to come and try mine out for size. It’s an AM1000 v5 medium frame. It should be fine for you. Cheers.

batboy   10 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by batboy » Oct 29 2019 12:20pm

Sinbord1981 wrote:
Oct 29 2019 2:24am
batboy wrote:
Oct 28 2019 10:31pm
I need some advice on the frame sizes. I usually fit the "small" sized frames when purchasing bikes but the Frey bikes only come in medium or larger sizes. I am 5' 5" tall. Ivy thinks the medium will fit but reading through this I see some people that are 5'10" and the medium is a good fit.
Hi Batboy - message me direct if you’d like to come and try mine out for size. It’s an AM1000 v5 medium frame. It should be fine for you. Cheers.
I'd love to stop by and give your bike a try, but I am located in Minnesota, USA.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by batboy » Oct 29 2019 12:22pm

robocam wrote:
Oct 28 2019 11:59pm
When you ride on a small frame, how far forward do you have the seat on the seat post?

I got a medium, and I'm 5'9". I have to extend the seat post significantly if I want my legs to extend. Are you going to go offroad with it on rough trails where you would need a dropper to get the seat out of the way? What's your inseam?

Aren't most measurements usually within about an inch between frame sizes anyway? I imagine anyone could go up or down a size and still be ok though I don't know what the long-term effects might be.
batboy wrote:
Oct 28 2019 10:31pm
I need some advice on the frame sizes. I usually fit the "small" sized frames when purchasing bikes but the Frey bikes only come in medium or larger sizes. I am 5' 5" tall. Ivy thinks the medium will fit but reading through this I see some people that are 5'10" and the medium is a good fit.
I'll be using the bike for offroad. My inseam is 28"

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Tjeska » Oct 29 2019 3:30pm

Got message today from Grace:

One AM1000 XL, Magura brakes, Lyrik fork, Sram EX-1 & gear sensor, 48V 21AH pack ready for shipment!

Image

Cant wait until its here, got a great custom decal set ready and a dropper post for it!
Have some other mods in mind for it once its here. :D
Last edited by Tjeska on Oct 31 2019 3:15am, edited 1 time in total.

formula101   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 29 2019 3:40pm

You're going to have zero to negative standover with a 28" inseam, even with shoes, on a medium. And yeah, standover clearance definitely matters when you need to quickly dismount. In your case, I was going to recommend a different Frey model, the CC:

http://www.frey.bike/full-suspension-eMTB/Frey-CC.htm

No problems with standover, and it's full suspension. However, geometry is only listed for a size L, with an enormous 48cm reach, so I still doubt this Frey would work for you. Maybe contact them and see if they offer multiple sizes, but don't count on it.

Image

If you insist on a very powerful mid drive, your best bet would be to find a size small mountain bike that you enjoy riding and then mod with a mid drive from a company like Luna (I've heard lots of bad reports about this company, but this is the industry norm at this point). Or, get some recommendations for mid drive add-ons from this forum.

But yeah, I wouldn't count on a Frey working out for you sizing wise.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Oct 29 2019 4:00pm

Just wanted to chime in about Luna Cycle. I've purchased many many items from them over the past few years (since 2016), and I have been very pleased with their service. In the rare instances that I encountered problems, they have gone above and beyond what others would have done. For example, I once purchased a Cyclone 3000 kit from them, and the triple chainring assembly (3 chainrings attached to a freewheel) I ordered was out of stock. They sent me a double chainring assembly for free just so that I wouldn't be without one, and then they sent me the triple chainring assembly later, and they let me keep the double. Another time I ordered an X-1 from them and it arrived with a defective Bafang thumb switch. They sent me a replacement at no charge (which is what I would have expected but I appreciate this). The people at Luna Cycle will bend over backwards to fix any problems you might have, and I've witnessed this in their Facebook group.

Speaking of the X-1, it comes in a small.

You could also modify your own bike with a kit from Revel Propulsion. It only adds 10 lbs.
formula101 wrote:
Oct 29 2019 3:40pm
...from a company like Luna (I've heard lots of bad reports about this company, but this is the industry norm at this point)...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by formula101 » Oct 29 2019 4:36pm

That front triangle won't allow a standover of less than 30" even in a small. If you want standover clearance, you'll want a standard mtb with an add=on kit. That huge integrated battery and very long head tube eliminates the possibility of any standover.

Image

Take a look at the Marin Hawk Hill or Giant Trance 27.5 Both bikes will have standover clearance, especially in a size small, and both are highly regarded.

Image

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Oct 29 2019 5:07pm

Warning concerning the FAT1000!

I broke my rear-hub freewheel ratchets yesterday. Rear hub started to make huge bang-noises when pedaling hard. Chain wasn’t skipping or changing gear. Sprockets are 100% intact. The freewheel started to slip more and more after a half an hour when returning home. Then it slipped with huge bangs multiple times within one rotation.

Bike was in use for two weeks and 200km’s. The hub is now being opened and replaced by a professional bike shop. These no-name Quanta fatbike hubs aren’t strong enough for 1500W Bafang! Bike weighs 30kg’s and I 110kg. This is simply too much.

Had to buy a DT Swiss rear hub for 259€!!! It was the last example in the whole of Finland. No other options since I don’t want to wait for months without the bike which I need to go to work with daily.

I opened a partial refund case for $130 in AliBaba. This episode is going to cost me atleast 350€ replacement work included! Will provide pictures ASAP here and to Frey when I get them from the bikeshop. There is no sense to install another crappy chinese hub. It won’t last longer than two weeks!

I think Frey shouldn’t use a cheap rear hub in a bike that has high torque and weight. Front hub can be anything but atleast the rear hub should be top-notch. If it costs more then raise the price accordingly. Otherwise the bike is of a superior quality and I love Frey. Please just invest on the quality rear hubs because if they fail, the whole rear wheel must be basically re-built including the spokes. In Europe an hour of maintenance costs around 50€ so this could cost with spare parts up to 450€!!!

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Oct 29 2019 5:45pm

I just measured my medium X-1, and it is 29" from the ground at the lowest point.

I'll ask over at the X-1 thread to see if anyone is 5'5".

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/kn ... o-fs-ebike

I would consider something with a frame similar to this Specialized Rumor so that you can fit the motor inside the triangle. Here's the 10 lb Revel Propulsion kit.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... FBaWlqLTFn
formula101 wrote:
Oct 29 2019 4:36pm
That front triangle won't allow a standover of less than 30" even in a small. If you want standover clearance, you'll want a standard mtb with an add=on kit. That huge integrated battery and very long head tube eliminates the possibility of any standover.
Last edited by robocam on Oct 29 2019 7:01pm, edited 2 times in total.

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robocam   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Oct 29 2019 5:56pm

Why $130? Why didn't you just contact Frey first to see what they would say, or did you do that? But I do agree it seems they should pick a different rear hub though mine hasn't failed yet. I came across someone on Facebook selling a set of front and rear wheels with practically brand new tires from a 2019 Giant for $125, so I couldn't resist. The rims and tires are tubeless compatible too. They'll be my backup. You could have also gotten a new wheel off eBay. Can't imagine it costing more than $200.

For the non-fat version, if you want to try 29" wheels, you can get an entire DT Swiss wheelset for $250 shipped! Unfortunately it doesn't have a Shimano compatible hub though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/254304061175
FlyingFinn wrote:
Oct 29 2019 5:07pm
...I opened a partial refund case for $130 in AliBaba. This episode is going to cost me atleast 350€ replacement work included! Will provide pictures ASAP here and to Frey when I get them from the bikeshop...

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by robocam » Oct 29 2019 6:08pm

Nice! Have fun with it!
Tjeska wrote:
Oct 29 2019 3:30pm
Got message today from Grace:

One AM1000 XL, Magura brakes, Lyrik fork, Sram EX-1 & gear sensor, 48V 21AH pack ready for shipment!

Image

Cant wait until its here, got a great custom decal set ready and a dropper post for it!
Have some other mods in mind for it once its here. :D

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