My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

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jeron   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Jun 22 2020 10:52am

barbarossa wrote:
Jun 22 2020 1:29am
2Slow wrote:
Jun 21 2020 10:43pm
barbarossa wrote:
Jun 18 2020 9:00am

light.JPG
This is very tidy setup. Well done. :thumb:
What display are you using? Can you share your experiences with that display? Where are controls buttons?
You also seem to have twin battery model of the bike, I can see some plugs on downtube. Did you just removed the battery holder and plugged wires back in to the tube?
thank you :D

display is an EggriderV2. perfect solution in my opinion. you can program your motor settings with mobile app - no need for a Bafang programming cable. and there are several other features I like (multiplier of amperage, power profiles, battery type selection = no false information about charge level with 52v batteries, etc.). I like it and it is perfect tiny. display has control buttons: you can activate light, change levels = I has the same functionality as original display.

Concerning the battery connection: I have not finished the Frey EX battery configuration, yet. First I removed the original 2x power modules (for 2 batteries in parallel - that prevent current flowing through batteries connected in parallel if not charged equal) and original battery downtube holder. I will use 2 batteries in series ( 2x 36v 10s5p each) and prepared the wiring - for that reason I shorted the 2 wires at the moment to use the internal battery alone. Frey uses the Hailong battery case, I use a Reention battery case as external battery- but in the end it does not matter - I only think Reention is a little more stable in construction and I modified the Reention holder to use all 4 mounting holes of downtube (Reention Polly version with larger mounting system) - Freys Hailong battery holder only uses 3 mount points.

I bought this Reention battery case from AliEpxress as external battery (Reention Polly for max. 56 cells):
Reention_Polly.JPG

original Hailong battery mounting system connection, of course :DO NOT SHORT THE 2 WIRES !!!! (=parallel battery connection)
cheers
The egg is fantastic. what values do you use for 52v battery? Just the default ones?

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2Slow   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 2Slow » Jun 22 2020 11:38pm

barbarossa wrote:
Jun 22 2020 6:18am
2Slow wrote:
Jun 22 2020 5:11am

Concerning the battery connection: I have not finished the Frey EX battery configuration, yet. First I removed the original 2x power modules (for 2 batteries in parallel - that prevent current flowing through batteries connected in parallel if not charged equal) and original battery downtube holder. I will use 2 batteries in series ( 2x 36v 10s5p each) and prepared the wiring


Thank you for info on EggriderV2.

I can see that you have largest possible chainring on the crank, and also going for 72V battery. Are you chasing max speed?
Ultra with resistor mod should be able to output lots of power, assuming you have two original 48V batteries charged at same level. Why change?
long story…

First I started with a Frey AM1000 and 48v battery. It was nice but I was missing the thrill. so I did the shunt mod and used 45amps instead of 30amps. It was a totally different bike ! but of course if battery goes down to the mid&lower 40er volts the kick disappears. and of course high amps and low rpms are not really the goal. ok, then I built a 15s5p battery for the AM1000 (63 volts max). it was better and this was ok for me.
Finally I searched for the specs of the controller mosfets and hey: 85volts/120amps. normally you use around 80% of mosfet voltage and based on the Bafang printing on the controller for the caps "100v 1000uf" and "100v 470uf" my suggestion was: this motor was built for around 70 volts. and i finally built a 4s19p battery (I charge it up to 78 volts - borderline, but it was ok so far) and replaced the caps. only problem was the +63v voltage protection of display and the low voltage regulation of controller but I found a solution. and yes: Now it is and was like I hoped it should be. I rode my AM1000 yesterday and it was fantastic, it is fantastic each time I ride. I am always impressed by the power this motor can deliver - it tickles in the stomach area.

then I bought the Frey EX - no mods with 48v battery- and first I thought : is the motor broken ?
wow, I was very disappointed and I felt like riding a snail. First I did the shunt mod. It is a little better now. but hey: no comparison to my AM1000.
so things were clear and I started the conversion. btw this 2 battery idea is genius !!!! (thank you Frey !!!). this time I will use 81 volts and when controller would die I will go for the phaserunner (in combination with my v1.3 motor with hall sensors). I will exchange the motors: Frey AM1000=v1.5 from Frey EX and Frey EX gets the v1.3 motor from my Frey AM1000 (only v1.3 or v1.5 with hall sensors makes sense for phaserunner).

that is the story :D
Thank you for sharing, nice road-map :thumb:

First thought, my Frey EX is twin battery. Potentially 48x2=96V :lowbatt: . Where would that take us? :mrgreen:
Probably not far as motor will be outside it's thermal limits. But hey, I like your idea of series batteries :thumb:
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FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Jun 23 2020 4:09pm

After 3000 kms of riding the Bafang Ultra motor has started to show it’s age. I’ve experienced clutch slipping (100% sure it’s not the chain) on steep uphills. It seems like some fingers of the clutch aren’t engaging anymore.

I ordered new gears from Greenbikekit.com including the 3-pawl clutch. Hope I can fix the issue with this combination.

jeron   1 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeron » Jun 25 2020 12:43am

FlyingFinn wrote:
Jun 23 2020 4:09pm
After 3000 kms of riding the Bafang Ultra motor has started to show it’s age. I’ve experienced clutch slipping (100% sure it’s not the chain) on steep uphills. It seems like some fingers of the clutch aren’t engaging anymore.

I ordered new gears from Greenbikekit.com including the 3-pawl clutch. Hope I can fix the issue with this combination.
Take some pictures of the process for us please.

HerrDoktor   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by HerrDoktor » Jun 25 2020 12:44pm

^^ What he said :-)

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tsellers   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by tsellers » Jun 25 2020 1:29pm

jeron wrote:
Jun 25 2020 12:43am
FlyingFinn wrote:
Jun 23 2020 4:09pm
After 3000 kms of riding the Bafang Ultra motor has started to show it’s age. I’ve experienced clutch slipping (100% sure it’s not the chain) on steep uphills. It seems like some fingers of the clutch aren’t engaging anymore.

I ordered new gears from Greenbikekit.com including the 3-pawl clutch. Hope I can fix the issue with this combination.
Take some pictures of the process for us please.
Better still, a Youtube video!
Regards, John

FlyingFinn   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Jun 26 2020 11:34am

tsellers wrote:
Jun 25 2020 1:29pm


Better still, a Youtube video!
Simon has done one already.


vortexgs   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by vortexgs » Jun 27 2020 5:03pm

I own the AM1000 and the HT1000. Both had a motor ticking noise. I sent the AM1000 motor to Bafang for repair and the noise came back over a short period of time. I opened and packed grease just as the video shows. This did stop the issue for a short period of time, but it returned. I reopened both motors and removed all of the grease and discovered the bearing races that are in contact with the aluminum housing were turning instead of the interior of the bearings turning on the shaft as intended. This was causing wear and noise. I have since used Loctite Retaining Compound on each bearing surface that is in contact with the housing and this has solved all issues with motor noise. I have found that you can not have any grease on the bearing race that is in contact with the housing. After using Loctite Retaining Compound, I greased each gear lightly and closed the motor. Both bikes combined have nearly 10,000 miles in 2 years of riding.
Last edited by vortexgs on Jun 27 2020 8:04pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tsellers   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by tsellers » Jun 27 2020 5:43pm

What an awesome first post, thanks very much!
Regards, John

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by FlyingFinn » Jun 28 2020 7:51am

vortexgs wrote:
Jun 27 2020 5:03pm
I own the AM1000 and the HT1000. Both had a motor ticking noise. I sent the AM1000 motor to Bafang for repair and the noise came back over a short period of time. I opened and packed grease just as the video shows. This did stop the issue for a short period of time, but it returned. I reopened both motors and removed all of the grease and discovered the bearing races that are in contact with the aluminum housing were turning instead of the interior of the bearings turning on the shaft as intended. This was causing wear and noise. I have since used Loctite Retaining Compound on each bearing surface that is in contact with the housing and this has solved all issues with motor noise. I have found that you can not have any grease on the bearing race that is in contact with the housing. After using Loctite Retaining Compound, I greased each gear lightly and closed the motor. Both bikes combined have nearly 10,000 miles in 2 years of riding.
Thank you!

A very important notice. I think this might be the reason why my motor is getting that hot as well making grinding noise.

Was the compound you used just a normal bolt retaining compound? I used that on my crank bolts. It’s mandatory on those. No matter how tight you take them they’ll come loose eventually.

vortexgs   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by vortexgs » Jun 28 2020 9:21am

I used Loctite 641 it is available on Amazon and auto parts stores. If you look at the video picture that is above you will notice grease on the bearing race. When the motor is closed this grease will make the race have the ability to spin in the housing. I cleaned each bearing race and housing surface with alcohol then applied a very light coat of the Loctite to each bearing race and each housing surface and was very careful not to get grease on these surfaces when lubricating and closing the motor.

shap08   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by shap08 » Jun 28 2020 8:23pm

vortexgs wrote:
Jun 27 2020 5:03pm
I own the AM1000 and the HT1000. Both had a motor ticking noise. I sent the AM1000 motor to Bafang for repair and the noise came back over a short period of time. I opened and packed grease just as the video shows. This did stop the issue for a short period of time, but it returned. I reopened both motors and removed all of the grease and discovered the bearing races that are in contact with the aluminum housing were turning instead of the interior of the bearings turning on the shaft as intended. This was causing wear and noise. I have since used Loctite Retaining Compound on each bearing surface that is in contact with the housing and this has solved all issues with motor noise. I have found that you can not have any grease on the bearing race that is in contact with the housing. After using Loctite Retaining Compound, I greased each gear lightly and closed the motor. Both bikes combined have nearly 10,000 miles in 2 years of riding.
Can you please confirm it is this part you loctite?
Image

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by vortexgs » Jun 29 2020 5:54am

These photos were taken before cleaning the entire motor. Any bearing race surface that is in contact with any part of the housing I used Loctite on.
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Balmorhea   10 kW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Balmorhea » Jun 29 2020 4:00pm

vortexgs wrote:
Jun 29 2020 5:54am
Any bearing race surface that is in contact with any part of the housing I used Loctite on.
Did you pause to consider why no manufacturer does that, and why no engineer specifies it in a design featuring cartridge bearings?

vortexgs   1 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by vortexgs » Jun 29 2020 4:57pm

This is my observation and fix for the issue that I was having. Seeing the housing blackened by a spinning race and play between the race and the housing on the bearing on the crank arm led me to this fix. With many 1000's of miles after applying the Locktite and not have a recurrence of an ongoing issue I thought I would post what I found to solve my issue.

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tsellers   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by tsellers » Jun 29 2020 5:09pm

play between the race and the housing
That doesn't sound good, and your fix is probably necessary. Makes you wonder if the milling machine was out of spec for a portion of a production run, or if possibly it comes down to an issue with wrong spec's that affects every housing they made for that model.
Regards, John

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2Slow   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 2Slow » Jun 29 2020 6:49pm

I opened and inspected latest motor, 2020 build. Left hand side of capacitor, notice poor casing machining. Too much warping on aluminium die casting part. Looks like machining was made to specs, but due to excessive warp, some areas got missed. This part should be rejected during quality assurance.

Image

Here is whole casing cover, issue on both sides.

Image

From engineering perspective, there are several problems like this, evident to and eye without even taking measurments.
By the way bearings fit in to aluminium casing, I can tell they they are on the loose side of tolerance. There are also appear to be some ether machining or design issues with large sprocket / gear that is connected to the cranks. This cause excessive noise under the heavy load.
Whole motor is build very rough, see this bafang ultra review, lots of room for improvement here. On the positive side, easy to service due to loose tolerances and good resistant to contamination for the same reason.
Last edited by 2Slow on Jul 27 2020 6:10pm, edited 1 time in total.
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leedavis   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by leedavis » Jul 05 2020 4:22pm

My 15 month old, standard configuration, AM1000 just registered 3000 miles (5000km). I haven't done anything for it other than routine maintenance - no problems. My use has been 60% single track mountain bike trial, 30% greenway and 10% street. On street and greenway PAS is usually ECO 1 and on trail ECO 3. Throttle comes in handy to get the bike going if it gets unexpectedly stopped in an awkward situation. My style of riding is good for about 45 miles per charge though I don't take the battery down that far.

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2Slow   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 2Slow » Jul 06 2020 2:01am

leedavis wrote:
Jul 05 2020 4:22pm
My 15 month old, standard configuration, AM1000 just registered 3000 miles (5000km). I haven't done anything for it other than routine maintenance - no problems. My use has been 60% single track mountain bike trial, 30% greenway and 10% street. On street and greenway PAS is usually ECO 1 and on trail ECO 3. Throttle comes in handy to get the bike going if it gets unexpectedly stopped in an awkward situation. My style of riding is good for about 45 miles per charge though I don't take the battery down that far.
Similar to Frey EX, 55 miles range on dual battery is possible in cross country, unless you go uphill lots or doing speeds over 15 m/h. ECO1 is nice on downhill, easy to control. Uphill ECO 2-4, incline dependant. If you keen to pedal and keep pedalling RPM up, I found battery usage very seasonable. But if you go lasy in SPORT5 and speeds up to 35m/h, then battery will not last long at all.
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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by leedavis » Jul 06 2020 2:16pm

2Slow wrote:
Jul 06 2020 2:01am
Similar to Frey EX, 55 miles range on dual battery is possible in cross country, unless you go uphill lots or doing speeds over 15 m/h.
XC trail is what I enjoy and IMO, what these bikes - AM, EX - are designed for. Here's video of my typical ride.

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by bugnut » Jul 07 2020 5:07pm

leedavis wrote:
Jul 06 2020 2:16pm
2Slow wrote:
Jul 06 2020 2:01am
Similar to Frey EX, 55 miles range on dual battery is possible in cross country, unless you go uphill lots or doing speeds over 15 m/h.
XC trail is what I enjoy and IMO, what these bikes - AM, EX - are designed for. Here's video of my typical ride.
Where is the video?

leedavis   1 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by leedavis » Jul 07 2020 6:20pm

bugnut wrote:
Jul 07 2020 5:07pm
leedavis wrote:
Jul 06 2020 2:16pm
XC trail is what I enjoy and IMO, what these bikes - AM, EX - are designed for. Here's video of my typical ride.
Where is the video?
The video was shot on Zack's Fork Trail, Lenoir, NC, USA

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jeffdkeyes   100 µW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by jeffdkeyes » Jul 08 2020 12:59pm

Excellent video...can't wait for my order to arrive!

What is the consensus on the motor for a new build - should i plan to take it apart and Loctite the bearings or wait to see if I hear noises first?

/Jeff

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2Slow   10 mW

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by 2Slow » Jul 08 2020 10:33pm

jeffdkeyes wrote:
Jul 08 2020 12:59pm
Excellent video...can't wait for my order to arrive!

What is the consensus on the motor for a new build - should i plan to take it apart and Loctite the bearings or wait to see if I hear noises first?

/Jeff
I have two brand new Bafang Ultra motors, one in the bike, second spare. Ride just fine, opened one and it's just fine. Looks like it depends on individual motor, some are build better than others.
I would not worry about it, it's cheap t replace, not like Bosch CX replacement cost :shock:
Last edited by 2Slow on Jul 30 2020 3:36pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Hardcore   100 W

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Re: My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

Post by Hardcore » Jul 09 2020 7:16am

If it's a new bike, you can assume it will be working properly and there's no need to open it up.

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